Author Topic: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K (Read 41640 times)

Tvag · « **Reply #275 on:** August 15, 2007, 10:08:14 AM »

Compression test results as follows:

no oil oil
#1 115 135
#2 120 140
#3 115 140
#4 115 145

To conduct the test I plugged the compression tester into the sparkplug hole and cranked it over with the kick start until the gauge no longer moved. I then removed the tester put a squirt of oil down the spark plug hole and repeated the same process. My leg is tired but the hole thing took me less than 15 minutes. So, from the results I would assume that my engine is in pretty good shape, right? There is slight variation but that could be from operator error. So... what does this tell me exactly? Why did I run a compression test. I didn't even think about it really I just did it because it seemed like everyone else was doing it. I guess I just want to be cool.

So, just a recap so I can get some advice of what to do next. I ran this engine back in January for the first time in 20 years. I cleaned the carbs and did a bench synch. After reassembly it would idle at 2000 - 2500 RPM's only. During the run #1 cylinder was puffing bluish smoke. The #3 cylinder was not firing as verified by flash touching the pipes. A wheezing sound was coming from the #4 cylinder area around the location of an abnormality in the appearance of the head gasket, Also at this location an oil stain had appeared soaking a patch of fine aluminum oxidation on my engine and fins. Pulled the plugs and the #1 and #2 plugs were running hot (white) and the #3 and #4 plugs were cold (black, sooty).

So, what I think I need to do next is borrow a manometer and synch the carbs. Then I intended to properly set the timing with a strobe gun and pray she idled at 1000 RPM's so I could take it for a nice test drive. What do you guys think of all that??!?!? Am I looking good or am I just kidding myself. I don't know whether I'm coming or going with this bike anymore.

TwoTired · « **Reply #276 on:** August 15, 2007, 10:53:33 AM »

Without reading the entire thread and just your last post, my impression is that you didn't get the carbs clean enough (slow jets), or mis-adjusted something (float height).

Cheers,

Tvag · « **Reply #277 on:** August 15, 2007, 11:32:50 AM »

Quote from: TwoTired on August 15, 2007, 10:53:33 AM

Without reading the entire thread and just your last post, my impression is that you didn't get the carbs clean enough (slow jets), or mis-adjusted something (float height).

I'll repull the carbs tonight and recheck my work. I think you and others had the same suggestion back in January.

Tvag · « **Reply #278 on:** August 16, 2007, 06:51:37 AM »

Ok… pulled the carbs last night. All the jets were immaculate but I cleaned them again to be sure. Every orifice was blasted with spray carb cleaner and pressurized air. Every float height was inspected. #2 needed a slight adjustment. A bench synch was conducted again and was a slight improvement over the last. I’m confident the carbs are in great shape. I was happy to find pulling them for the 2nd time was WAY easier than the first.

When reinstalling the carbs I decided to leave the push throttle cable out. I was having a real problem with my throttle sticking open with it installed so I just got rid of it. It works 100% better without it and I know others on the board have done the same. It is now working properly so I am content, for now.

I conducted another compression test:

no oil oil
#1   115 140
#2   120 140
#3   115 145
#4   115 140

These figures look pretty consistent so I think all set with compression.

I purchased a 1.5 amp hour 6 and 12 volt battery charger last night. I don't yet have a batter for the bike. I am wary of jumping it off my car even though I did it that way the first time to see if she would run. The Kaw z400g I'm getting uses the same battery as this CB. As it turns out the PO of that bike has 2 batterys. So I figure, being a thrifty guy, I can wait for that bike and battery instead of buying a new one... but I'm getting pretty anxious.

Next step, once I have the battery, is to properly synch the carbs with a manometer and set the timing with a strobe gun. While I'm waiting to borrow that equipment I may:

1) start cleaning up the gauges and handle bars,
2) try and fix my sticky front brake issue,
and/or
3) get some slight powdery patches of rust out of my tank. I think my tank is in excellent shape but I’ll treat it with molasses anyhow to get rid of any oxidation that exists.

Finally I took some pics of my bike with the pipes back on. I’ve included the same old before shots for some comparison of course. Looking good I think.

Tvag · « **Reply #279 on:** August 27, 2007, 05:08:28 PM »

Sorry it's been a while guys. I recently started a new job and grad school is starting up again and I have to commute 2 hours to get there this semester... real problem. Anyhow...

As of right now my project is on hold. I was able to get a hold of an old Motion Pro carb synchronizer. It's vertical and yellow and uses mercury... The problem I have is that it didn't come with the 5mm adapters I need for screwing into the f'ing carbs. So... now I have to get a hold of a honda dealer to see if they can get them for me. I'm pretty salty about it because I was so fired up to synch those carbs... grrrrr

Brakes are #$%*... I've tried draining them and cleaning the piston and caliper. I've tried a different set of brake line I had as spare. I tried to clean and rebuild the master cylinder. NOTHING HAS WORKED they are still sticking against the rotor and they still feel spongy. I've got through GALLONS of brake fluid pulling them off and putting them back on... I'VE HAD IT! So pist off I could spit.

On an upside I have finally aquired the '79 Kaw KZ400 to play with while the CB is in pieces. It's NOT a CB though and that irritates me. I've not ridden it yet because I'm in between health insurances and I have not yet insured or registered the bike. So it sits in my garage, laughing at me while I bide my time. On Sept 7th I'll be 5 years out from a DWI and my insurance will drop drastically... so I'm waiting until then to insure these bikes...

F these brakes! I'm pissed off.

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #280 on:** August 27, 2007, 07:37:44 PM »

Sorry to read about your brake troubles, I know it can be so very frustrating! My thought on that is that maybe the spare lines are shot too. Are they original rubber coated lines?

Here is a slight bright spot, I think Z1 can get you the 5mm vacuum port adapters. Check out this ad for their new sync tool. In the text, they mention a part number that will get you a set of 4 port adapters.

http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=1689

You may need to call them as I couldn't find the adapters on their web site. I got mine from a place in California, but their web site isn't responding tonight.

medic09 · « **Reply #281 on:** August 27, 2007, 08:30:50 PM »

If you have any bike shops or mechanics closer than the Honda dealer, they may have the adapters for you. They were pretty common and fit many brands and bikes.

The wife is heading out to her family in Waterford on Wed. Bummer I'm not going; I would have detoured to come see your bike!

I hope to work a bit on our 75 Triumph this week. Your thread is an inspiration...

dagersh · « **Reply #282 on:** August 28, 2007, 10:45:07 AM »

Tvag,

Tell us more about how you cleaned out your braking system. You may have done this in an earlier post, and if so I apologize for being repetitious.

How was the caliper piston seal? Was the groove 100% clean upon reassembly? How about the MC - did you rebuild or replace the innards. I know that the rubber pieces on my '75 were completely buggered, and a simple cleaning was no where near enough to getting the job done. I also agree with the earlier post about the condition of the Rubber Lines, mine looked fine, but with the overall condition of the rest of the braking system, they were probably shot as well.

Do yourself a favor, get a Speedbleeder and their Bleeding kit. It will make your life very simple - and you won't dread changing your brake fluid annually. I had never tried to bleed a system before I did mine, and I got great feel at the lever on my first attempt.

Anyway - keep it up man, you are doing an amazing job.

Gersh

jensk · « **Reply #283 on:** August 28, 2007, 12:28:55 PM »

Hi Twag.
Don't give up on the brakes. When you have found the cause you will know everything about these brakes.

I had a similar problem with mine. Get it fixed when i finally grab my money went to the local mc dealer and got him to make me some new braided brake lines. Now braking is really great allmost like modern bikes.

before that i dismantled, cleaned, assembled, bleeded, testet, sticky dismantled ............

I tried this with new pads , new pistons, new silicone ring, new mc - brakes still sticky. It was a posting from TT stating that old rubber brakelines could have collapsed inside thus acting as one way valves on the brakefluid. That make me get new brakelines. After installing them the sticky brake deamons left my bike.

When bleeding i startet using a 1 m (3 feet) piece of fuelline to put over the bleed valve top. I tied the other end of the fuelline to the cieling. Pump brakefluid into the brakeline til it comes into the fuelline and ends at the same level as in the reservoir. Let the brakes stay with open bleedvalve an hour and see all the small bubles escape the into the fuelline. Remember to turn you steer so that the reservoir is the highest point of the brakeline setup.

After one hour of open bleedvalve with connected fuelline all the air is out. Close the bleedvalve and try. You have the most rock hard brake ever.
/jensK

Tvag · « **Reply #284 on:** August 28, 2007, 06:44:54 PM »

I just don't know what to do... they just stick...

Bought a rebuild kit for the MC and rebuilt. Filled the brakes bottom to top with fuel line and a plastic syringe. No go...

Pumped the piston out of the caliper... examined it. sanded any of the rough spots out... piston is in pretty good shape... but not excellent (could be the problem, anyone know where to get one?) Took the rubber o-ring out of the caliper cleaned it (AGAIN) scraped the groove clean with a dental pick. Reassembled Oring and piston. tested to see if the pad was moving freely and was. No go... Still sticky

Disassembed brakes. Replaced brake line with spare brake line. Same procedure filling MC from bottom to top... NO GO... STILL STICKY!

I guess it could still be the brake line or the piston. The piston is a bit tarnish but hardly at all. I'm having a tough time believing its the piston. Someone want to fix these for me... This is by far the worst I've felt with this bike. The worst part is because I'm out of money. I just can't put anything else into it right now. So I'm facing this bike being on the sidelines through winter. Very upsetting.

Tvag · « **Reply #285 on:** August 30, 2007, 04:12:47 PM »

Thanks to Old School I was able to find the part # I need to order the carb synchronizer adapters from Motion Pro's website... 08-0013. Problem is my car had to go into the shop because my waterpump failed and leaked all over my crackshaft pully which then rusted out and snapped without notice... no sound... no 'add fluid' indicators... no check engine light... just SNAP, clank clank clank clack smash thump thump REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVVVV..... whooorl whoooorl whoooorl whoooorl pzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

So... the adapters are on my wish list... Good news is I can buy a timing gun with a gift card I have for Sears... but can I do the timing without the carbs being synchronized correctly? Bad Idea right? Last time ti wouldn't hold an idle below 2500RPMs.

medic09 · « **Reply #286 on:** August 30, 2007, 06:04:43 PM »

Unless I'm mistaken, the carb synch should be the *last thing* after valve clearances, points gaps, timing...

The wife is in Waterford just now. If it was me, I'd be coming to watch you work (though the beach at her family's place is nice).

Tvag · « **Reply #287 on:** September 05, 2007, 05:31:03 PM »

Quote from: medic09 on August 30, 2007, 06:04:43 PM

Unless I'm mistaken, the carb synch should be the *last thing* after valve clearances, points gaps, timing...

The wife is in Waterford just now. If it was me, I'd be coming to watch you work (though the beach at her family's place is nice).

But how can I do the timing if the bike isn't even idling at 1000 RPM's? I thought you need to set the timing for 1000 RPMs and then at 3000 RPMs? Am I wrong?

Been test riding the KZ a couple times around the block. It's awesome to finally be able to get on a bike. All I can think about though is how SWEET my CB will be when it's done. The KZ is ok but I didn't do any work to aquire it so, it's bitter sweet. But damn fun to be on a bike. Can't wait to get it registered!

So what would you do regarding the timing and the synching? should I try to do the timing? It's a mercury guage so I'm scared I'll pull the mercury into the engine if it's not running smoothly.

Tvag

TwoTired · « **Reply #288 on:** September 05, 2007, 05:40:17 PM »

Quote

But how can I do the timing if the bike isn't even idling at 1000 RPM's? I thought you need to set the timing for 1000 RPMs and then at 3000 RPMs? Am I wrong?

You can static time the engine with a simple 12 v light bulb attached to two wires and alligator clips. Clip it across the point contacts and rotate the engine till the light changes state at the timing marks.

The vacuum average is steady when the engine is at a constant speed. It is when you rapidly close the throttle at RPM the vacuum greatly increases.

Cheers,

Tvag · « **Reply #289 on:** November 13, 2007, 03:35:50 PM »

Just letting you all know I'm still alive. My new job is keeping me busy as all hell with grad school to boot. The bike is still in same shape.

I've managed to get a hold of an old timing light but it doesn't look right. There are two wires that have cylandrical plugs instead of clips at the end and I'm not sure where they are suppose to go. It may be for a car since it's over 20 - 30 years old. I'll try and take a pic someday and maybe someone can tell me how to modify it to work with my bike.

Looking forward to this winter as I'll be done with classes and since I'm now working in a school I'll get a nice 10 day winter break!! If I can't find time to get it up and running then I never will. Talk to you all... and... I miss you??

suckers

dagersh · « **Reply #290 on:** November 14, 2007, 11:13:46 AM »

Glad to hear you are still alive and kickin'!

As far as the timing light goes, why not just remove the cyclinders and splic ein some aligators. Sorry if that was too obvious!

Gersh

TwoTired · « **Reply #291 on:** November 14, 2007, 01:22:13 PM »

Some of the older timing strobe lights were inserted in series between spark plug and ignition lead. I had one when it was better than nothing (and about as valuable). But, it was rather finicky and unreliable. I finally purchased an inductive type, powered from the battery. These days, I am not trying to eek out every last bit o' power from the engine. And, I just use a 3 watt 12V instrument bulb to which I have soldered two short wires with alligator clips. I static time the engine with this across the point contacts, and then occasionally check the timing advance function with the inductive strobe.

But, what do I know? I'm just a "sucker".

Tvag · « **Reply #292 on:** November 14, 2007, 05:24:32 PM »

TT got a pic of this doohicky you conjured up? I get it in concept but I need the visual. Will the hardware store have a 3 watt 12 v battery? I need to get a soldering gun.

Talk to you soon guys!

TwoTired · « **Reply #293 on:** November 14, 2007, 05:50:25 PM »

You use your Motorcycle battery to power a 12 v bulb. You could use a headlight, if you wanted. I had a low wattage bulb lying around, so as not to drain the battery too quickly.

As you rotate the crank, the light should come on just as the F mark comes by. This is the 750 I just got and its timing is too advanced. I'll correct that when I have time for the whole tune up I've planned for it.

Cheers,

mikedialect · « **Reply #294 on:** November 14, 2007, 06:02:30 PM »

Quote from: TwoTired on November 14, 2007, 05:50:25 PM

You use your Motorcycle battery to power a 12 v bulb. You could use a headlight, if you wanted. I had a low wattage bulb lying around, so as not to drain the battery too quickly.

As you rotate the crank, the light should come on just as the F mark comes by. This is the 750 I just got and its timing is too advanced. I'll correct that when I have time for the whole tune up I've planned for it.

Cheers,

All of my buddies thought I was crazy when I whipped out the light bulb with clips, but it works like a charm!

Tvag · « **Reply #295 on:** November 16, 2007, 12:00:45 PM »

thanks TT for putting up with my incompetence. I'll give it a shot.

Tvag · « **Reply #296 on:** December 18, 2007, 10:02:56 AM »

Ok, built my homemade timing light. I bought a 12v bulb from home depot and soldered 2 wires with alligator clips to it. We'll see how it works out tonight... but regarding a carb synch...

Quote

As of right now my project is on hold. I was able to get a hold of an old Motion Pro carb synchronizer. It's vertical and yellow and uses mercury... The problem I have is that it didn't come with the 5mm adapters I need for screwing into the f'ing carbs.

I have this correct, right? The ports to hook up a synchronizer are 5mm? I don't want to go buying the 5mm adaptors and find out I needed the 6mm type so a confirmation is greatly appreciated. Will these work on my cb550? Yes you dumbass... [/color=red]

Quote

Here is a slight bright spot, I think Z1 can get you the 5mm vacuum port adapters.

I've been away to long. Have to answer my own questions again.

http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/partno/08-0013/

Note to self:
Motion Pro 08-0013 - 5mm Carb Adapter
Motion Pro 08-0392 - tappet feeler guage
Motino Pro 08-0133 - spoke wrench 6 / 6.3mm

Tvag · « **Reply #297 on:** December 19, 2007, 04:44:43 PM »

The oddest thing. I can't figure out for the life of me what's going on. I pulled my freshly charged battery from the battery tender to bring out to the bike and see if I couldn't set the timing with my new timing light. Well, I got the bike all ready, attached the battery, removed the points cover, set up my light and turned the key to "on". But I got nothing. No neutral light, no oil light, no blinkers no breaks... so I tested the battery with the light I made and it lit right up. So I tested the positive and negative wires to be sure they were working and it lit up again. I checked the fuses and replaced them all. Still nothing from the instrument panel. So I put it into 'run' incase that had anything to do with it. Nada. It was working fine when I put it away... I'm kind of dumbfounded and a little pissed off but not really because i was glad to be working on her again finally. But still... I hooked the battery back up to the tender and it started charging right away so maybe it was drained? I don't know. Try again tomorrow.

Did I forget something simple??

Tvag · « **Reply #298 on:** January 04, 2008, 05:15:16 AM »

So maybe the battery discharged when I hooked it up to the bike again. It's 10 degree's outside right now, warmer in my garage but still cold. Maybe that's why it would work. At any rate I hooked the charger up to the battery while it was hooked up to the bike and it's now working. I also got my 5mm carb adapters in the mail this week and hope to finish a tune up soon.

Check you later...

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #299 on:** January 04, 2008, 06:28:48 AM »

Quote

I hooked the battery back up to the tender and it started charging right away so maybe it was drained? I don't know.

You don't mention how long it 'charged' when you did this, but my float charger, when hooked up to the batt. and the batt. is installed in the bike, will detect turning on the ignition and using either of the the turn signals for just a few blinks, and switch to the charge state. That's how sensitive they are.

Your test light provided a minimal discharge, but the charger should have recovered that very quickly. It it remained in a 'charge state' for any length of time, you may have a short somewhere.

News:

Author Topic: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K (Read 41640 times)