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Author Topic: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K  (Read 41621 times)

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Offline Tvag

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #325 on: February 16, 2008, 02:45:45 PM »
Two tired, thanks for the suggestions. It's been too cold for me to really get out there on work on the bike, but I did check the plugs. Both 3 and 4 fire and it's a nice fat spark across the gap.

I'll see if the spark plugs are getting gas as soon as I get a break with the weather a bit.

Cleaned up the seat today. It was grimmy but now it looks great. Toothbrush, simple green, and elbow grease. I mounted it back on the bike today. The bike looks strange with the seat on it and no tank. It's been so long I forgot it even had a seat. : )
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1977 CB550K (on the road, FINALLY! 4/10/08)
1979 Kaw Z400B2 (someone's future parts bike)

Offline Tvag

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #326 on: February 20, 2008, 03:13:38 PM »
Ok... couple updates. It's still too cold to go outside and work on the bike but I did have my tank indoors and decided to try using the molasses method to clear the rust out of it.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=7729.msg76018#msg76018

Compared to some tanks I've seen, mine is actually in very good shape. There was a coat of powdery looking rust covering the back of the tank and on the bottom on either side. I figured why not do it right and clean it out completely. I used about 2 quarts of molasses and filled the rest with water. We'll see how it comes out.  ;)

Also, ment to mention that last time I ran the bike I pulled the clutch lever to see if there was any change in noise. I did not hear any change in the sound of the engine.  ???




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1977 CB550K (on the road, FINALLY! 4/10/08)
1979 Kaw Z400B2 (someone's future parts bike)

Offline Tvag

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #327 on: February 24, 2008, 03:06:33 PM »
Travesty,

Found out my petcock might not be fully functional. Here's the story.

I dumped out the molasses and hose out the tank thouroughly. Lots of shiny metal. I had it in there for about 5 days. Looked really good and I was feeling good about it. Then I poured in some dry gas into the tank to soak up the remaining water. So far so good. Brought the tank outside screwed on the petcock and starting filling the tank with gas as fast as I could. I didn't want any rust reforming. Well, as it turned out the petcock was leaking, slowly but surly. #$%*. I took off the petcock and drained the tank. I plugged it up again with a rubber stopper and poured in some motor oil to coat the tank while I figure out what to do next.

So, my petcock doesn't have a gasket or oring that would seal the space between the tank threads and the petcock. Is there suppose to be an oring or gasket and what size? If not, what did I do wrong? What do I do now? Frustrated.  ??? >:(
« Last Edit: February 24, 2008, 03:13:46 PM by Tvag »
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1977 CB550K (on the road, FINALLY! 4/10/08)
1979 Kaw Z400B2 (someone's future parts bike)

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #328 on: February 24, 2008, 05:43:06 PM »
Quote from: Tvag on February 24, 2008, 03:06:33 PM
So, my petcock doesn't have a gasket or oring that would seal the space between the tank threads and the petcock. Is there suppose to be an oring or gasket and what size? If not, what did I do wrong? What do I do now? Frustrated.  ??? >:(

There is a gasket each for the in-tank filer and for the petcock to tank bung.
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Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline Tvag

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #329 on: February 24, 2008, 06:15:04 PM »
TT,

I finally found a fiche that showed the petcock assembly as shown below. I see only one ring labled as #3 along with the filter (filer?). Is there another oring I'm not seeing?

« Last Edit: February 24, 2008, 06:23:18 PM by Tvag »
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1977 CB550K (on the road, FINALLY! 4/10/08)
1979 Kaw Z400B2 (someone's future parts bike)

InaneCathode

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #330 on: February 24, 2008, 08:53:31 PM »
Inside the petcock theres actually a clover shaped rubber puck, it can deteriorate with time and leak out the face/bottom edge of the petcock. Also, the threads if they're sloppy or the petcock isnt screwed in tight enough can leak.
Can you tell where exactly on the petcock it's leaking?
I suggest teflon plumbers tape on the petcock bung before you screw it back on, and the ordering of a petcock rebuilt kit. It'll probably stop your petcock leaking and prevent your carbs overflowing/leaking when you park the bike by actually shutting the fuel off.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #331 on: February 24, 2008, 11:19:45 PM »
Quote from: Tvag on February 24, 2008, 06:15:04 PM
TT,

I finally found a fiche that showed the petcock assembly as shown below. I see only one ring labled as #3 along with the filter (filer?). Is there another oring I'm not seeing?
No, not on the 77-78 K models.  I forgot yours was 77, Sorry.  Prior models were different.  Though, I don't think you can get that rubber seal (it is NOT an oring) without the filter.  Um, ready for this?  $31 at Honda.
I have a new one here, I'll measure for you.
15.5mm O.D
10mm I.D.
1.5 mm thickness.

You could make one from 1/16 sheet neoprene found at a hardware store or auto parts outlet.  Are you allowed to play with sharp Xacto knives?  Those things will make you bleed. ::)

Oh, and don't bother with teflon tape for this application.  The threads aren't where you need to seal the joint.

This assumes your leak is at the petcock/tank bung union.  If it is the internal selector seal, see if your petcock has assembly rivets or screws.  Screws on the retaining plate mean easy rebuilding.  Rivets or swagged retention means a more difficult rework.

Cheers,
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Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline Tvag

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #332 on: February 25, 2008, 02:38:34 PM »
Quote
  Um, ready for this?  $31 at Honda.
I have a new one here, I'll measure for you.
15.5mm O.D
10mm I.D.
1.5 mm thickness.

TT, thanks for doing the homework for me. It's very sad but I can't afford to pay $31 for a neoprene seal. I guess I could make one as you suggested. I was hoping to try and find a loose oring at the hardware store. I assume you are going to suggest strongly against that idea. So... I need to find some neoprene  ???  and cut it to shape. Neoprene. I really don't even know where to start. Do hardware stores just sell pieces of neoprene?

The leak is coming from the point where the bung contacts the petcock. I don't think a rebuild is necessary and my petcock is definately riveted. thanks again.

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1977 CB550K (on the road, FINALLY! 4/10/08)
1979 Kaw Z400B2 (someone's future parts bike)

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #333 on: February 25, 2008, 02:46:39 PM »
Quote from: Tvag on February 25, 2008, 02:38:34 PM
Do hardware stores just sell pieces of neoprene?

I got sheet Neoprene at my local Orchard Supply Hardware store.

Looks like this:
http://www.allstategasket.com/info_gasket_material_style-1119.asp

You could always call around to local Honda, MC, or autoparts stores to see if they have something to work for ya.

Cheers,
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Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Tvag

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #334 on: February 25, 2008, 03:17:44 PM »
Quote from: TwoTired on February 25, 2008, 02:46:39 PM
Quote from: Tvag on February 25, 2008, 02:38:34 PM
Do hardware stores just sell pieces of neoprene?

I got sheet Neoprene at my local Orchard Supply Hardware store.

Looks like this:
http://www.allstategasket.com/info_gasket_material_style-1119.asp

You could always call around to local Honda, MC, or autoparts stores to see if they have something to work for ya.

Cheers,

TT that's perfect. I was scowering the internet not sure what I was looking for or the terminology. Also, I've been to all my local autoparts / motorsport stores and all they had were orings. I bought two that look like they could do it but I imagine they won't make the seal that I need. Thanks.

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1977 CB550K (on the road, FINALLY! 4/10/08)
1979 Kaw Z400B2 (someone's future parts bike)

Offline Tvag

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #335 on: February 26, 2008, 04:05:08 PM »
Ok well, I went and looked around and found sheet gasket material but it wasn't neoprine. One was 1/32 thick of rubber-fiber, and the other was 1/16 thickness cork-rubber. Both said they could be used with gasoline applications.

Suggestions? I was thinking of going with the cork-rubber because of the thickness.

Tvag
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1977 CB550K (on the road, FINALLY! 4/10/08)
1979 Kaw Z400B2 (someone's future parts bike)

Offline BobbyR

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #336 on: February 26, 2008, 04:22:03 PM »
Old time wrenches tell me you can remove the rubber puck and turn it around exposing a better sealing surface. I have not tried it but these guys have used it successfully. 
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InaneCathode

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #337 on: February 26, 2008, 04:55:33 PM »
Quote from: BobbyR on February 26, 2008, 04:22:03 PM
Old time wrenches tell me you can remove the rubber puck and turn it around exposing a better sealing surface. I have not tried it but these guys have used it successfully. 

I've done that twice before and it does work pretty well. Less 'sticky' than a new puck too i might add.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #338 on: February 26, 2008, 05:08:29 PM »
Quote from: Tvag on February 26, 2008, 04:05:08 PM
Ok well, I went and looked around and found sheet gasket material but it wasn't neoprine. One was 1/32 thick of rubber-fiber, and the other was 1/16 thickness cork-rubber. Both said they could be used with gasoline applications.

Suggestions? I was thinking of going with the cork-rubber because of the thickness.

Tvag

I'd be tempted to use the 1/16 rubber.  Cork is compressible and doesn't spring back, meaning one time use.  You'll have to replace it, if it is ever removed again.  The rubber, on the other hand, should be reusable.  There is only the question of whether the scant depth has enough compliance for the job.  Check each mating surface for irregularities, if they are less than 1/16", then use the thinner rubber.  Otherwise, use the cork. Or, use the rubber, double thickness.

Cheers,
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Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Tvag

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #339 on: February 26, 2008, 05:23:57 PM »
Again thanks for the advice.

I inspected my surfaces and I do see some irregularities on the surface from the petcock. There are a couple decent gouges there. Instead of cutting two or more pieces of the rubber-fiber, I'm going to go with the cork for now. I want the thickness. I'm I've treated the tank and I'm hoping this seal will last me a long time.

Should I use some sort of Permiatex gasket sealing product on this little thing? I did not intend on it but if I'm going with cork and this will have to last a while, maybe I should?
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1977 CB550K (on the road, FINALLY! 4/10/08)
1979 Kaw Z400B2 (someone's future parts bike)

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #340 on: February 26, 2008, 07:01:05 PM »
Quote from: Tvag on February 26, 2008, 05:23:57 PM
Should I use some sort of Permiatex gasket sealing product on this little thing? I did not intend on it but if I'm going with cork and this will have to last a while, maybe I should?
No.
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Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

InaneCathode

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #341 on: February 26, 2008, 07:11:36 PM »
Gasket maker generally isnt gas safe :)
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Offline Tvag

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #342 on: February 27, 2008, 05:44:29 PM »
Quote from: InaneCathode on February 26, 2008, 07:11:36 PM
Gasket maker generally isnt gas safe :)

Not gasket maker... gasket sealer!  ;)
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1977 CB550K (on the road, FINALLY! 4/10/08)
1979 Kaw Z400B2 (someone's future parts bike)

Offline Tvag

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #343 on: February 27, 2008, 05:55:20 PM »
Success. Ok TT you weren't kidding. Exacto knives DO make you bleed! 15.5mm is f'ing small! 10mm even more so. But it was worth it. I made 2 gaskets out of the cork-rubber gasket material. The first was a bit lopsided so I used it as a template to make the second which was much more balanced and accurate. It wasn't EXACTLY round but close enough to form a nice seal. I washed out the tank with some fresh gas, put together the assembly (mesh filter, tube, homemade gasket, and petcock) and tighted that puppy down. Filled to the brim with fresh gas. Not a drop has seeped. Everything is bone dry.

Even minor accomplishments like this feel so good after not having been working on this bike for a while. It's almost in 'top secret double probationary test driveability'. By that I mean that I could potentially see a little cruise down the street for the very first time within the forseeable future. The only thing the bike is lacking to make the attempt is a battery. That's a $30 investment I've been aching to make.  ;D ;D  Also, the brakes are sticking but I'm talking about on the tiniest of tiny test drives!  :P
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1977 CB550K (on the road, FINALLY! 4/10/08)
1979 Kaw Z400B2 (someone's future parts bike)

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #344 on: February 27, 2008, 11:13:33 PM »
I guess it's too late now.  But, you can make nice round gaskets by putting an Xacto knife in a compass, that normally holds a pencil to draw circles.

Cheers,
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Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Klark Kent

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #345 on: February 28, 2008, 12:38:54 AM »
congrats tvag, been following your story and am happy to hear that roadworthiness is afoot.

TT- you mean you can do something other than stab other kids with a compass?  circles you say?  ca-razy.

-KK
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-KK

75 CB550k
76 Moto Guzzi 850T-3FB LAPD- sold
95 KLR650
www.blindpilotmovie.com

download the shop manual:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=17788.0
you'll feel better.

listen to your spark plugs:
http://www.4secondsflat.com/Spark_plug_reading.html

Offline Tvag

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #346 on: February 28, 2008, 05:04:47 AM »
Quote from: TwoTired on February 27, 2008, 11:13:33 PM
I guess it's too late now.  But, you can make nice round gaskets by putting an Xacto knife in a compass, that normally holds a pencil to draw circles.

Cheers,

... errr information I could have used 1 day ago!  :o    :)   I'll know for nexttime. Thanks TT.

Now that the tank and petcock are operational, I can turn my attention back to getting the bike firing on all fours.
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1977 CB550K (on the road, FINALLY! 4/10/08)
1979 Kaw Z400B2 (someone's future parts bike)

InaneCathode

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #347 on: February 28, 2008, 08:36:30 PM »
Quote from: Tvag on February 27, 2008, 05:44:29 PM
Quote from: InaneCathode on February 26, 2008, 07:11:36 PM
Gasket maker generally isnt gas safe :)

Not gasket maker... gasket sealer!  ;)

Ok ok. "Liquid gasket sealer and or maker and or general purpose sealant" isnt generally gas safe  :P :D :D
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Offline Tvag

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #348 on: February 29, 2008, 12:26:17 PM »
Quote from: InaneCathode on February 28, 2008, 08:36:30 PM
Quote from: Tvag on February 27, 2008, 05:44:29 PM
Quote from: InaneCathode on February 26, 2008, 07:11:36 PM
Gasket maker generally isnt gas safe :)

Not gasket maker... gasket sealer!  ;)

Ok ok. "Liquid gasket sealer and or maker and or general purpose sealant" isnt generally gas safe  :P :D :D

I concede.   :P   :)   
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1977 CB550K (on the road, FINALLY! 4/10/08)
1979 Kaw Z400B2 (someone's future parts bike)

InaneCathode

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #349 on: February 29, 2008, 03:15:59 PM »
Quote from: Tvag on February 29, 2008, 12:26:17 PM
Quote from: InaneCathode on February 28, 2008, 08:36:30 PM
Quote from: Tvag on February 27, 2008, 05:44:29 PM
Quote from: InaneCathode on February 26, 2008, 07:11:36 PM
Gasket maker generally isnt gas safe :)

Not gasket maker... gasket sealer!  ;)

Ok ok. "Liquid gasket sealer and or maker and or general purpose sealant" isnt generally gas safe  :P :D :D

I concede.   :P   :)   

Lol fair enough, hows the bike coming?
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