Author Topic: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K  (Read 41597 times)

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Offline dagersh

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #50 on: January 04, 2007, 04:42:15 PM »
Tvag,

This just hit ebay - if you are still looking for a spares, it could come in handy!

Keep up the great work!

Gersh

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1977-78-NOS-GENUINE-HONDA-CB550-K-CARBUERATOR-ASSEMBLY_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35595QQhashZitem300066966260QQihZ020QQitemZ300066966260QQrdZ1
1962 CA95
1966 Black Bomber
1966 CA77 Dream
1967 Superhawk
1970 CB750K0
1972 CL350
1972 CB450/500 Custom
1972 CB500K1
1975 CB550F
1976 CB400F
1975 CB750 Future Restoration
1976 CB750K6
1976 CB750F
1976 GL1000


1968 Suzuki T500 Cobra
1990 BMW K1
2001 'Busa
2003 RC 51
Bunch of Guzzi's

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Offline Tvag

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #51 on: January 05, 2007, 05:01:24 AM »
I bought that part right up. Didn't even blink. THANKS!! The missus isn't going to like that one.
1977 CB550K (on the road, FINALLY! 4/10/08)
1979 Kaw Z400B2 (someone's future parts bike)

Offline Tvag

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #52 on: January 05, 2007, 05:17:15 AM »
HELP?



What are these two things?? More importantly do I need to take them out to clean the carb thouroughly? I don't want to mess around pulling anything out of these puppies that aren't threaded. Some help and feedback?


#4 broken down. Boots and brackets should switch sides.
1977 CB550K (on the road, FINALLY! 4/10/08)
1979 Kaw Z400B2 (someone's future parts bike)

Offline kuyarico

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #53 on: January 05, 2007, 07:08:33 AM »
The one on the left would be your slow jet and the one on the right is your main jet housing. I know that some people use a piece of leather around the slow jet and a decent set of pliers to remove it. It is best to remove/clean it. As for the housing, I'm not sure if it needs to come out. (mine are different) But usually a 10mm will get it out. Can you see through it? You may be able to clean it out without removing. Anyways, keep us posted.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2007, 07:11:45 AM by kuyarico »

Offline Cowboy

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #54 on: January 05, 2007, 08:12:25 AM »
TVAG,

you should have no need to pull the housing where the fuel needle lives. Just use a pipe cleaner or qtip to get in there with some solvent, and make sure the seat is clean, so that the rubber point on the needle has a clean place to seal when the floats push it up against that seat.

The slow jet, the brass tube on the left in your photo, comes out fairly easily with a pair of pliers. It is press-fit (not screwed) into the carb body, but it is so small that it doesn't take much pulling to get it out. It is a hollow tube, and you don't want to crush it, so grip it with the pliers near the solid end, as far from the carb body as you can grab it. A slight twisting action may help get it loose. You will almost certainly mar the smooth brass on the outside, but that won't hurt anything but your pride.  It has a number of tiny drilled holes in the end you can't see. In order to idle properly, those holes must be clean, as must the passages where the fuel goes from there to the carb throat.

Once you've cleaned everything, use a few light taps from a smallish hammer to press the slow jets back into their holes. A brass-headed mallet would be best for the job, but a steel hammer and a steady hand work just as well.

Cowboy
1964 Honda CT200
1967 Chang Jiang 750 Sidecar
1970 Honda CB350
1978 Honda CB550

Offline Klark Kent

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #55 on: January 05, 2007, 08:16:15 AM »
normal hammer wrapped in a rag made me feel better about taking a hammer to my slows.  got the job done but iam not sure the rag did anything but make me feel better.
-KK
-KK

75 CB550k
76 Moto Guzzi 850T-3FB LAPD- sold
95 KLR650
www.blindpilotmovie.com

download the shop manual:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=17788.0
you'll feel better.

listen to your spark plugs:
http://www.4secondsflat.com/Spark_plug_reading.html

Offline jensk

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #56 on: January 05, 2007, 09:33:12 AM »
I am the same place in my carb restoreartion. I have the slowjet out. I tried first with a normal set of pliers with no success. I think i didn't grab firmly enough on the slowjet when twisting. I found my vise grip and took a firm hold of the slow jet - and it came out nicely after one or two small twists. I hade a piece of cloth between the vise grip and the jet.

The thing to the right is the seat for the float valve. I have rinsed it with some cotton on a toothpick - no need to pull out. Good luck with the rinse.

My Shop manual states that the screws that hold the choke pieces has to be renewed when taken out to secure a firm lasting fit of the choke plates. I plan on remounting the screws with som locktite to keep them in place.

/J
« Last Edit: January 05, 2007, 12:28:39 PM by jensk »
'77 CB550K Technical rebuild done and riding. Cosmetics must wait till winter
'78 CB550K3 beautifull but engine needs rebuild.

Offline medic09

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #57 on: January 05, 2007, 12:40:38 PM »
I've seen fine brass wire used, as well.  Just have to be sure the guage of the wire is smaller than the hole's diameter.

Looking good, there!
Mordechai

'78 CB750K
'76 Triumph T160 Trident (rebuilding)
'07 aprilia Caponord

Santa Fe, NM

Offline Tvag

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #58 on: January 05, 2007, 01:11:51 PM »
Quote
http://Well, you probably would have been fine leaving all the carbs together as a rack and simply cleaning the botom ends and parts, leaving all the slides and linkage intact, but theres certainly nothing wrong with being very thourough. So much for not needing to re-sync the carbs though. 


Yeah, I screwed myself there. I should have been less ambitious. Truth be told I just didn't know what I was doing. One part came off then another and soon I realized, s*$t, I'm going to have to resync these things, aren't I? I'm in a world of trouble huh?
1977 CB550K (on the road, FINALLY! 4/10/08)
1979 Kaw Z400B2 (someone's future parts bike)

Offline kuyarico

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #59 on: January 05, 2007, 01:24:41 PM »
Quote
http://Well, you probably would have been fine leaving all the carbs together as a rack and simply cleaning the botom ends and parts, leaving all the slides and linkage intact, but theres certainly nothing wrong with being very thourough. So much for not needing to re-sync the carbs though.


Yeah, I screwed myself there. I should have been less ambitious. Truth be told I just didn't know what I was doing. One part came off then another and soon I realized, s*$t, I'm going to have to resync these things, aren't I? I'm in a world of trouble huh?

You'll be fine. Perform a bench synch after you get it back together. It will run. Positive thinking. At least now you can clean the slides. My throttle engaged and disengaged much smoother after i cleaned them and area inside the carb where the slide, well, slides.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #60 on: January 08, 2007, 02:58:07 PM »
The low speed or pilot fuel circuit is prone to clogging as the orifices involved are very small.  There are four openings into the low speed passageway; the slow jet, the air jet near the mouth of the carb, the IMS screw opening (when removed) and the exit port into the carb throat.  ALL of the these must be clean and proven clear.

When removing the Idle Mixture Screw note there is a spring, a small washer, and an o ring behind it.  Don't lose them.  And, be wary that your carb cleaner doesn't dissolve the o ring rubber.

The float height is set to 14mm.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Tvag

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #61 on: January 09, 2007, 05:01:32 AM »
Thanks all! I can say this about Carborator Cleaner... if we met in a fight, Carb Cleaner would kick my @ss. At any rate... I have to tell you I was terrified disassembling this puppy. I did each one and successfully put them back together. I am exceedingly proud as I have never done anything mechanical in my life. I'd be more proud if they worked and that test is still to come.

Quote
And, be wary that your carb cleaner doesn't dissolve the o ring rubber.

I hope it didn't dissolve the oring rubber because I didn't know there was an oring in there. Here's praying. Should I be greatly concerned? All the orings I've found so far have been in great shape. Did I single handedly F myself?

Finally, I did deside to remove my slow jets and will do so tonight. Yesterday I was able to, very cautiously, remove one of them so I now have enough courage to do the rest. It was remarkably clean but who knows with the rest of them. Tonight will tell.

1977 CB550K (on the road, FINALLY! 4/10/08)
1979 Kaw Z400B2 (someone's future parts bike)

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #62 on: January 09, 2007, 03:08:24 PM »
Quote
And, be wary that your carb cleaner doesn't dissolve the o ring rubber.

I hope it didn't dissolve the oring rubber because I didn't know there was an oring in there. Here's praying. Should I be greatly concerned? All the orings I've found so far have been in great shape. Did I single handedly F myself?

If I were to predict the symptoms of IMS oring failure it would be something like this.

1- Leakage allows air past the IMS and leans the idle mixture (possibly erracticaly) for the affected cylinder.  The inside of the IMS screw is under vaccum when the engine is running.

2- When stopped, the IMS heads might get wet or weep the small amount of fuel in the Idle/Slow circuit.  This wet area would expand over time and/or show a residue buildup as the fuel evaporates with ongoing run/stop cycles.

You decide if any of the above concerns you.

Some people are completely and totally satisfied if the simply engine runs after pushing the button.  :-X

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Tvag

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #63 on: January 11, 2007, 11:15:44 AM »
Searched the site for a while but couldn't find any help with reinstalling the carbs. Can anyone give me some tips on how to ease the process OR direct me to a post that gives some help. I'm ready to put these puppies back in and pray to the motorcycle Gods that they hold gas and that the bike will start.

By the way, my front brakes have seized up. Maybe I should work on getting them to work before trying to start the bike again? Brakes can't be NEARLY as complicated as the carbs right?
1977 CB550K (on the road, FINALLY! 4/10/08)
1979 Kaw Z400B2 (someone's future parts bike)

Offline medic09

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #64 on: January 11, 2007, 11:20:40 AM »
Look at the thread about softening carb boots.  Old, dessicated, stiff boots is what hangs us all up.
Mordechai

'78 CB750K
'76 Triumph T160 Trident (rebuilding)
'07 aprilia Caponord

Santa Fe, NM

Offline kuyarico

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #65 on: January 11, 2007, 11:24:00 AM »
Searched the site for a while but couldn't find any help with reinstalling the carbs. Can anyone give me some tips on how to ease the process OR direct me to a post that gives some help. I'm ready to put these puppies back in and pray to the motorcycle Gods that they hold gas and that the bike will start.

By the way, my front brakes have seized up. Maybe I should work on getting them to work before trying to start the bike again? Brakes can't be NEARLY as complicated as the carbs right?

Are the carbs back together? I usually straddle the bike and push the carbs in starting from the right side (#4 carb). It takes a good amount of effort to get them on. You're going to have to give it some muscle. As for the brakes, a Speedbleeder helps a lot in the process. A lot of people here swear by them. I'd bleed the brakes and completely disassemble them. The front brakes on my 550 wouldn't disengage, and when I took them apart, i found a good amount of oxidation around the brake pad. I sanded it down and popped it right back in. Haven't had any problems since. Good luck. Sounds like you're making some progress.

Offline OldSchool_IsCool

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #66 on: January 11, 2007, 11:26:27 AM »
Seized brakes won't keep the engine from running, but will prevent the bike from moving!  Definitely free up/repair/rebuild your brakes before attempting to ride, even a little bit. 

Lets see if we can get one victory under your belt before taking on the next (of many) challenges!
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #67 on: January 11, 2007, 11:36:16 AM »
[One thing I'd add about cleaning the jets is to stay away from using wire etc. to clean the little holes unless its a last result.  Those holes were machined very precisely and as you know brass is kinda soft so you run the risk of widening those holes which will permanantly richen the air/fuel mixture.  They really are that sensitive.  I have used sewing needles to help dislodge persistant crud in jets, but you must make sure the sewing needle isnt wider than the hole your using it on, so be careful if you do that.
Quote

I was using a Giutar string which was great until I grabbed the wrong one and pushed out what I thought was a clog. The bike started great but billows of unburned fuel came out the talipipesat idle. Believe what he says.
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

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Offline 750goes

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #68 on: January 11, 2007, 12:16:17 PM »
To assist with carb installation, tie a ratchet strap around the carbs and motor- at the level of the carb throats, then slowly tighten the strap until you have everything lined up then just ratchet a few more times...a bit of wd40 or similar inside the carb boots and some on the inlet pipes also helps to slip on better.

get the carbs right before tackling another project.......

Offline Tvag

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #69 on: January 11, 2007, 12:23:15 PM »
Quote
Are the carbs back together?

They sure are!! No leftover pieces either, how about that!   ;D

 Now, the airbox boots are still on the bike and the engine intakes and boots are on the carbs (off the bike). I was planing on connecting all of the cables, lubing up the airbox boots with something, muscling them onto the airbox boots, and sliding the engine intakes back on.

Listen, I don't really want to have to go through all the trouble of putting my tank back on and filling it up just to see if these carbs will old gas and start the bike? I'll just have to drain it again and unmount it because the bike needs a TON more work (if it even starts). Any suggestions?
1977 CB550K (on the road, FINALLY! 4/10/08)
1979 Kaw Z400B2 (someone's future parts bike)

Offline BobbyR

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #70 on: January 11, 2007, 12:54:36 PM »
You can hook a funnel with some fuel line attched to the carbs. Fill the funnel and start the bike and run the fuel out of the funnel. Then go do the rest of the stuff.
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline 750goes

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #71 on: January 11, 2007, 01:00:03 PM »
to see if the carbs leak - put them on a flat surface or your bench, prop them up between two bricks and then put fuel in the fuel line by suspending the tank above the carbs - leave it for 20 minutes and come back - any leaks ??

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #72 on: January 11, 2007, 01:03:31 PM »
I recommend that when you heed advice from this forum, you take notice if they know about your specific bike or rather generic 750 stuff that may or may not be applicable to your bike.

CB550K carb install:
 Remove the clamps entirely from the air plenum boots.
Remove the bolts that holt the air filter box to the frame.  This will allow the airbox/plenum assembly to move rearward up to 1/2 inch.  It's not much, but it helps.  Figure a way to wedge or hold the airbox at it's rearmost.

Spray the outside of air plenum boots with something slippery Silicone, Armoral, WD40.  Spray this on the inside of the intake runner boots, too.  Or, use petroleum jelly there.

Install the carbs from the right hand side of the bike sliding the front of the carbs across the allready installed intake runner boots with only the front bands tightened.  The air plenum side boots will deform and distort as the carbs go across.  Make sure nothing digs into the rubber to avoid tears (both kinds :D).

When the carbs are all aligned with the runner boots, wiggle them until they fully seat while applying forward pressure.  Don't knock the bike off the parking stands while doing so.  ::)

Once the carbs are forward seated.  Use an "L" shaped scribe or small/long allen wrench to guide or "walk" the plenum rubbers over the rear of the carbs.  Lube where required  in the process.

Reinstall clamps, cables and bolts, etc.

I think that's it...or at least what I can remember.

The fuel is fed by gravity to the carbs,  Any old reservoir will do.  Even if hung from the ceiling.

You can sometimes get draggy brakes less so by appling side pressure to the caliper.  Palm of hand, heel of boot, or rubber hammer.  Temporary fix, though.

Cheers,

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline hcritz

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #73 on: January 11, 2007, 01:53:07 PM »
I've found that one of the old restaurant ketchsup squeeze bottles works nicely as a reservoir...the tapered tip fits nicely into the fuel line. Make sure and have a small hole in the bottom to let air in as the fuel is used...
I picked up a new one at "The Walmart" for 50 cents

Offline Tvag

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Re: Starting a rusty '77 CB550K
« Reply #74 on: January 15, 2007, 10:38:49 AM »
I've found that one of the old restaurant ketchsup squeeze bottles works nicely as a reservoir...the tapered tip fits nicely into the fuel line. Make sure and have a small hole in the bottom to let air in as the fuel is used...
I picked up a new one at "The Walmart" for 50 cents

I made a nice little resevior to hold some gas out of a honey nozzle and an old maple syrup container. Trying to find a container around the house that the nozzle would fit was a pain in the butt. Anyhow, busy this past weekend and so didn't get a chance to test the carbs or put them in my bike. Hope to test them tonight but we are finally getting some freezing temperatures here in New England this weekend... carb install might now have to wait till it warms up a bit but we will see.

I curse you playoff football!!!
1977 CB550K (on the road, FINALLY! 4/10/08)
1979 Kaw Z400B2 (someone's future parts bike)