Topic: Shout-out to Ignitech ignition systems

[livefast_dieold]

It seems to me that this brand (http://www.ignitech.cz/en/) of ignitions systems has never been mentioned here as a feasible option.
I've recently installed one of their product on my racer CB750 and I'm absolutely amazed.

At 1/3 of the cost of a Dyna programmable unit (at least in Europe), they are able to supply a FULLY PROGRAMMABLE system, easy to install and to use.
It's really amazing, I was almost crying of joy for the results: the engine run way smoothly, and with a different sound as well!

Carburation is more stable and I don't have to fiddle with it all the time with every weather change. I'm not even using it at full capacity, as it can receive input from TPS, fast shifting system, commanding exhaust valves, and much more!

Here a pic of the ignition graph I'm currently using:



What's your maximum advance for a tuned 750 engine? At the moment I'm at 44°, as you can see, but I'm thinking to give it a couple of degrees more...

[bwaller]

A friend in our race assn. bought one for his Katana racer & he too is very happy.

[teebee67]

Used them for years on my 350K4 racer - very good ignitions. Opted for Electrex World on my CB750 racer as I wanted self generating but I am thinking of switching to Ignitech in the near future.

[slikwilli420]

Why ditch the self-generating one? I was looking at those but was hesitant about going down and destroying such a pricey item that is essentially unprotected on the side of the bike.

[MRieck]

I assume a programmable rev limiter too.

[livefast_dieold]

I assume a programmable rev limiter too.

Obviously, now set at 11.000 rpm

[MRieck]

I assume a programmable rev limiter too.

Obviously, now set at 11.000 rpm

Seems a bit high for a CB750

[livefast_dieold]

I assume a programmable rev limiter too.

Obviously, now set at 11.000 rpm

Seems a bit high for a CB750

Do you think? I shift at 10.000 rpm and the bike is still willing to go up.

[teebee67]

Why ditch the self-generating one? I was looking at those but was hesitant about going down and destroying such a pricey item that is essentially unprotected on the side of the bike.

I'm ditching the self generating one as, from experience, I find a fully programmable unit to be superior performance wise to a unit with a fixed advance curve which is someone else's idea of what will be ok for a CB750 regardless of state of tune, etc.

[kmb69]

It seems to me that this brand (http://www.ignitech.cz/en/) of ignitions systems has never been mentioned here as a feasible option.
I've recently installed one of their product on my racer CB750 and I'm absolutely amazed.

.....

Which model are you using?

[Sam Green Racing]

I assume a programmable rev limiter too.

Obviously, now set at 11.000 rpm

Seems a bit high for a CB750

Do you think? I shift at 10.000 rpm and the bike is still willing to go up.

Riccardo,

do you have a dyno power graph for your bike that you can post ?

Sam.

[PeWe]

It seems to me that this brand (http://www.ignitech.cz/en/) of ignitions systems has never been mentioned here as a feasible option.
I've recently installed one of their product on my racer CB750 and I'm absolutely amazed.

.....

Which model are you using?

Good question!
Which one and what's more needed to get it to work on a CB750?

[livefast_dieold]

I assume a programmable rev limiter too.

Obviously, now set at 11.000 rpm

Seems a bit high for a CB750

Do you think? I shift at 10.000 rpm and the bike is still willing to go up.

Riccardo,

do you have a dyno power graph for your bike that you can post ?

Sam.

I have an old one, still with dyna ignition, bike reached 82 hp at rear wheel

[MRieck]

I assume a programmable rev limiter too.

Obviously, now set at 11.000 rpm

Seems a bit high for a CB750

It will rev higher (and flat line power) but no power after 9,800 or so with a 34mm valve.

Do you think? I shift at 10.000 rpm and the bike is still willing to go up.

It will rev higher (and flat line power) but no additional power after 9,500 or so with a 34mm intake valve.....cam doesn't matter. Stress increases geometrically.

[CR750]

Do you mean exponentially ?  Or is my English that bad ( not native ) ? ( Never heard of geometrically increasing stress before, always happy to add to my vocabulary.)

[PeWe]

It must be CB750 SOHC on the list here
http://www.ignitech.cz/en/vyrobky/tci/mototci.htm

Basic ignition: http://www.ignitech.cz/en/vyrobky/tci/tci.htm         SPARKER TCI      Inductive ignition for motorbikes
More to adjust: http://www.ignitech.cz/en/vyrobky/tcip/tcip.htm    SPARKER TCIP4  Inductive programmable ignition for motorbikes.
TCIP4 is the one, right?

[scottly]

What's your maximum advance for a tuned 750 engine? At the moment I'm at 44°, as you can see, but I'm thinking to give it a couple of degrees more...

44 degrees is a LOT of advance at WFO. Most engines like 32-35 degrees, depending on the combustion chamber efficiency; better chambers need less lead time to start the fire burning.

[PeWe]

What's your maximum advance for a tuned 750 engine? At the moment I'm at 44°, as you can see, but I'm thinking to give it a couple of degrees more...

44 degrees is a LOT of advance at WFO. Most engines like 32-35 degrees, depending on the combustion chamber efficiency; better chambers need less lead time to start the fire burning.

How is the max advance decided?
https://www.enginebasics.com/Engine%20Basics%20Root%20Folder/Reading%20Spark%20Plugs.html
http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/readplugs.htm

Advance until pinging can be heard, then retard a little?  Or reading plugs?
Back in the 80's I adjusted like that after a hint from a car mechanic, heard some pinging on 5:th gear when WOT around 4000 and pinging  ~5000 rpm was OK for maximal advance. Cars got ignition set like that, could ping around 35mph on highest gear when WOT.
I do not know if this is the best method nor result.

[scottly]

Pewe, that link you provided had some erroneous information about the heat range of a spark-plug being related to the heat dissipation of the ground strap through the plug body and then the cylinder head. The heat range of a spark plug is related to the heat dissipation of the ceramic around the center electrode through the plug body.
The old technique of advancing until pinging was heard, then backing it off a bit was called "power timing"; if the motor pings at any point, you're losing power, as well as risking damage. Some drag racers back in the day of dual-point distributors found that their cars went slightly faster when they retarded the timing a bit near the end of the quarter mile. The theory was that in high gear with more wind resistance, the load and cylinder pressures were much greater than at the start of the race in 1st gear and zero wind resistance.
Today, the best way to determine optimum advance would be on a dyno, with a bit of trial and error.
Riccardo, what kind of fuel are you using?       

[PeWe]

Pewe, that link you provided had some erroneous information about the heat range of a spark-plug being related to the heat dissipation of the ground strap through the plug body and then the cylinder head. The heat range of a spark plug is related to the heat dissipation of the ceramic around the center electrode through the plug body.
The old technique of advancing until pinging was heard, then backing it off a bit was called "power timing"; if the motor pings at any point, you're losing power, as well as risking damage. Some drag racers back in the day of dual-point distributors found that their cars went slightly faster when they retarded the timing a bit near the end of the quarter mile. The theory was that in high gear with more wind resistance, the load and cylinder pressures were much greater than at the start of the race in 1st gear and zero wind resistance.
Today, the best way to determine optimum advance would be on a dyno, with a bit of trial and error.
Riccardo, what kind of fuel are you using?       

Thanks for the clarification. I have seen different versions of plug reading in various links that confuse.

[scottly]

By the time you see evidence of pinging on the spark plugs, like chipped ceramic, melted ground strap, or aluminum spatter, there may be damage.
Best to add a little bit of advance at a time, and check to see if power goes up on the dyno.

[livefast_dieold]

I'm using a TCIP4, which is the fully programmable unit, and regular fuel.

I agree that 44 degree may be extreme, but the stock CB750 has already 40°...

[scottly]

The full advance hash marks on the stock 750 are at 34 and 36 degrees, for a nominal advance of 35 degrees, all in at around 2500 RPM.

[livefast_dieold]

The full advance hash marks on the stock 750 are at 34 and 36 degrees, for a nominal advance of 35 degrees, all in at around 2500 RPM.

Are you sure?

I have this info:

[Captain]

 You guy's have a long way to go as there is a whole new world that is untapped when you continue following the norm and staying with 2D. This is what has been discussed the postings to date and on this thread other than being mentioned very briefly in the very first post (TPS).  This is absolutely fine and the way to go for drag racing but for any street or track use then you are leaving part throttle performance on the table unless you adopt 3D.  Some of you will know what I'm talking about and some won't, but whatever you do start to educate yourself as to what this is about and you will realise that you have been only playing with the basics. The truth is that ignition lead is required in order to provide the burn time required of air/fuel combustion and have it "Completed" at between 15 & 20 deg ATDC in a NA gasoline engine. The figure here varies depending on many things such as the engine design, bore stroke, fuel type & grade and so on but it is between these two figures. The reason that this is important is that this provides the point of max pressure with the greatest amount of stroke available of the piston from the available air/fuel combustion process and this varies with throttle position as that is what a throttle is..........To vary the amount of air/fuel.   The next thing to realise is that this "burn time" expressed in crankshaft degrees of rotation also varies depending on the pressure of combustion and slows as pressure drops and conversely speeds up as pressure is increased. This is the very reason that "blown" engines when they come onto boost retard or reduce the ignition numbers.  In NA (Normally Aspirated) engines this also means that when you are at part throttle the cylinder pressures are reduced and burn speed time slows and so requires more time (crankshaft degrees of rotation) to completion. Now when that happens and it does...... then if you are still fixed at your 2D figure then you are now running retarded from what the engine actually wants .............As it requires more and an earlier start on order to finish at the 15-20 deg ATDC point. This results in several things, (1) less power for the give throttle position (2) greater production of waste heat, (3) poorer fuel economy  (the last one may be of little interest to some) Ever wondered why modern auto's have small radiators and are "peppy" for the engine size today compared with yesteryear.. 3D ignition mapping is a major contributor as it is incorporated in every modern gasoline EFI automobile produced today.     

 Captain