Author Topic: CB650 pistons and head on 550  (Read 2002 times)

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Offline philgresty

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CB650 pistons and head on 550
« on: July 22, 2017, 05:36:30 am »
Got an idea in my head, just want to check it makes sense before i make moves on it.
I fancy a little boost in power on my 550, id throw a whole 650 engine in but complete 650 engines arent very common here in the UK.
I already have a complete cb650 head and rocker box ( i purchased it just for the cam i have in my 550 now)
since i already have a 650 head, i plan on running 60.8mm 650 pistons in my 550 jugs with a ported 650 head. Hopefully the combination of porting and a more efficient head design and bigger pistons (should put me around 585ish cc???) will work good
Do you see any problems in this, are 550 and 650 cylinders the same height? will i have to shave a bit off the cylinders for a more favourable compression ratio?
I know ill have to change carbs and exhaust, i see it as an opportunity to upgrade.

Thanks in advance
Phil

Offline calj737

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Re: CB650 pistons and head on 550
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2017, 05:41:03 am »
Is your question does a 650 head bolt up to a 550 block and lower end? If so, no it does not.
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline philgresty

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Re: CB650 pistons and head on 550
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2017, 06:16:00 am »
Is your question does a 650 head bolt up to a 550 block and lower end? If so, no it does not.
From reading paulages thread, I though It would, aslong as I use 650 pistons so I don't wind up with stupidly low compression

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Offline calj737

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Re: CB650 pistons and head on 550
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2017, 06:40:18 am »
Well, I guess I should have said, "not without significant work".
'74 550 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=126401.0
'73 500 Build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132935.0

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline philgresty

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Re: CB650 pistons and head on 550
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2017, 06:42:30 am »
Well I'm going to bore it out anyway, my main question is, will using the 650 pistons and head yield a better result than a 550 big bore kit.

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Offline MRieck

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Re: CB650 pistons and head on 550
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2017, 07:06:24 am »
Well I'm going to bore it out anyway, my main question is, will using the 650 pistons and head yield a better result than a 550 big bore kit.

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The 650 head is much better in regard to valve size and ports shape. Unfortunately guide height and springs limit it to a stock cam unless you do a fair amount of modifications. I have made the 650 head work with high performance cams but it took a while to figure it out.
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Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: CB650 pistons and head on 550
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2017, 10:05:32 am »
The paulages thread is the authority on adapting a 650 top end to a 500/550 lower end.  It will require pretty extensive modification.  It's infinitely easier to just drop in an entire 650 motor.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: CB650 pistons and head on 550
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2017, 12:56:40 am »
You can drop a bottom end of a 650 in a 550 case and lose your kicker, but the 650 deep oil pickup requires a modification to the oil pump pickup when in a 550 case. Was it FunJimmy or Brent Waller that documented that modification, I think it was Brent. He blending the oil pickup of a 550 with a 650 with some TIG work...and lots of measuring. Don't recall if he used the deeper oil pan of the 650 and thus the needed mod. But, then again...Brent has a custom solution close ratio 6 speed gearbox in his 550 race bike...initially putting it together with 350 or 360 six speed parts. Later with some custom cut gears after a couple gears broke teeth.  If you want to see a Potent 550 motor build, read Brent's thread in the High Perf section...  Really sweet race bike and high 70s hp now...  Or is it 80?
The 650 crank gives you long throw (or a stroker) setup.  Like others have previously said, LOTS of engineering Paulage put into building his Hybrids. Too bad he isn't around to fill in some blanks in his thread and answer a few questions.  He would really be bugged a lot I'm afraid as it is a cool topic and build.  But as SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan has said, going with a 650 motor with an overbore is a better route to up-rating the 550 chassis. Just a stock rebuild gives you a much nicer power band, if you defeat the CDI ignition system shortcomings, easily done now with a cash injection.

But, you are also going to spend some money with Mike (MRieck) to get the modifications to the head for running a high performance camshaft with that 650 head.  He has it figured out now, but as he said it took him a while to figure it out.  His head work is worth every penny, a TRUE ARTIST when it comes to tapping into power for any of the SOHC4 heads.
Would love to give him a pair of CX500 heads to see what magic he can do with them, but cam choices are highly limited to non-existent for the CX/GL500 bikes.  It is far less expensive to be happy with the stock performance or mild upgrade with the SOHC4 and similar vintage bikes. Later bikes or more modern ones have far better performance easily, without the shortcomings of the brakes, chassis flex, suspension, etc.  You can spend $10K on a 70s SOHC4 and a 80s or early 90s DOHC of similar displacement will outperform it very easily in power and handling.  The classic styling you can't get though, at least in a Honda as even the "standard" bikes of the 80s took on a different look than the lovely lines (in my eyes) of many of the 70s SOHC bikes.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 01:05:01 am by RAF122S »
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Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: CB650 pistons and head on 550
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2017, 07:02:06 pm »
What Dave said!

You can start simple with a complete 650 motor drop in. It'll give you an immediate performance gain.  If you choose to do a hopped up motor, there is plenty of money you can spend to make it even more potent. 
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold