Author Topic: Thoughts about points  (Read 41300 times)

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Offline Keith

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Thoughts about points
« on: September 10, 2017, 07:20:54 PM »
It's been a while since I last replaced my points and condensors, according to my records, 6,100 miles. So today I pulled the point cover to inspect and adjust...both sets were smooth, no pitting or metal transfer. Reset dwell on 1-4 to 48 on the four cylinder scale, check timing with inductive timing light.. Right on the F mark. Repeat for 2-3 cylinders. Applied point grease, cover back on.Done, took a few minutes. Back in the day, automotive points were usually changed at 15,000 mile intervals, so I expect something close to that. Something I never do...turn the ignition key on without the engine running; if I must work with the key on, say to work on a signal ground, I'll pull the point cover and place a piece of paper between the points contacts before I energize the system. Some may disagree, but I believe leaving the key on can damage points, condensors, or coils. One major reason I like using a dwell meter, if I don't get a dwell reading, something is wrong...dirt on the contacts, loose connections, or short to ground. No dwell=no run.  Makes a no start situation much easier to figure out. Having difficulties changing points? Try this; replace only set 1-4, set the gap, if using feeler gauge, be sure you are not "on the cam"; your points will be too far open, and may remain open when they should be closed when cranking engine.  The result; no dwell, no start. Now, start engine, set timing for 1-4. Now, repeat for points for cylinders 2-3, set gap, then set timing. Simple, easier to keep track of which wires went where. Your thoughts?

Offline 754

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Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2017, 08:14:27 PM »
I always run points. I have a conversion  that uses car points that I have run at times, Maxi Dwell.
It worked great  I think the longer distance from pivot to contact, results in less wear.
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2017, 09:30:40 PM »
I always run points. I have a conversion  that uses car points that I have run at times, Maxi Dwell.
It worked great  I think the longer distance from pivot to contact, results in less wear.

Those old conversion kits also accelerated the opening speed of the contacts, which reduced arcing and made for better spark below 3000 RPM! Hard to find today, though. I think they used points from the old 350 Corvette engine?
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Offline 754

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Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2017, 09:48:10 PM »
Yes Higher tension vette points.. you can get them at Napa. Just got to grind a corner if the base off to fit the cover. They seem to last pretty long and have the built in timing light, and solid state condensers.
I think you see the odd set on ebay for around 120 bux.
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
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Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2017, 12:04:29 AM »
Ditch them and install an electronic ignition, and never take that points cover off again. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline 754

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Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2017, 12:09:44 AM »
Get an Automatic and never have to shift again...
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2017, 12:25:10 AM »
Get a car and never have to ride again.......... ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline Bodi

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Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2017, 10:27:01 AM »
Get a Barcolounger and a giant TV, never leave the house again...

Offline 754

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Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2017, 11:08:40 AM »
Yeah save the cost of fuel , ignition systems  and insurance too, Thanks Terry for pointing out we have options..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline PeWe

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Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2017, 12:30:09 PM »
I saw the Maxi Dwell for sale on eBay about 2-3 years ago. The seller did not understand that it was not an option with 100 USD in shipping to Europe instead of 20 something.

Found it! "Only" 47 USD in shipping to Sweden! Wrong shipping, max 30USD possible
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Ignition-CB750-CB550-CB500-CB400-CB350-SOHC-Built-in-Dynamic-Timing-Light-/252320437072?hash=item3abf785350:m:mjiBdNKkVNRbMmm2fWyPEnw
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 12:35:37 PM by PeWe »
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Offline Deltarider

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Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2017, 01:15:58 PM »
I'm sorry but that advertisement is such a gross exaggeration that I cannot take the product serious anymore. That text is just full of lies and half truths but mainly outright lies. I'm sorry.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 01:25:04 PM by Deltarider »
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2017, 01:27:36 PM »
More!
http://www.xpipe.org/pdf/M-Dsalesinfo.pdf
It feels easy to have an inbuilt strobe lamp for each 1:4 and 2:3
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Geeto67

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Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2017, 01:31:19 PM »
I'm sorry but that advertisements is such a gross exaggeration that I cannot take the product serious anymore. That text is just full of lies and half truths but mainly outright lies. I'm sorry.

have you not had the experience in reading anything connected to the Campbell x pipe before?

http://www.xpipe.org/japanese.html

Enjoy the snake oil at it's finest. My favorite is the maxi "speedo converter" that touts a slow running odometer as a feature!!!!, most state and local governments would call that odometer tampering.

So here is the problem....This guy buys out all the old inventory on some pretty good old school products and then to move them resorts to the most over the top forms of exaggeration that he is actually hurting himself with just how obviously full of crap he is.

Some of these products actually have merit, but the snake oil greases the money right out the door into someone else's pocket. Acoustic supercharger? give me a break.
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Offline 754

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Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2017, 01:33:40 PM »
I take most advertising with a grain of salt.
I ran one for quite a few years, liked it enough to not goback to stock, had no trouble revving to 11K. Points are or were easier to get than GOOD points for the factory setup.
 Being in N America meant more auto parts stores than Honda dealers.
 I did change my points once,no reason just they had years on them , they still worked fine.
 But to each their own choice.
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
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Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Geeto67

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Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2017, 01:38:19 PM »


yes but here's your grain of salt for Monty Campbell and his shilling of Maxi products. I mean he's even named "Monty" like an old timey carnival swindler....you can't make this up.
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Offline 754

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Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2017, 01:46:46 PM »
 I remember reading his pypehype years ago and thinking, this system should take over the world if its true.
As far as the Maxi Dwell , I should dig out the original ads.
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Gene

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Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2017, 03:24:41 PM »
I like points. Those are my thoughts. I can't help it.
*1973 CB750K3 (Bow)

Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2017, 05:59:14 PM »
I like points. Those are my thoughts. I can't help it.

Me too. I also happen to like the Dyna ignition. I also have a Hondaman ignition that I want to try. I did not much care for CB750 dual points in the beginning (thirty years ago) but as my tuning skills improved the "mystery" surrounding the setup of dual points gradually dissolved to the "point" that they are no longer the teeth gnashing chore that they once were. I can setup either dual points or electronic ignition with equal ease and am equally satisfied with both. Each has their pros and cons and they both do the job. Becoming proficient at setting up dual points is worthwhile endeavor.  8)
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Offline Bankerdanny

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Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2017, 06:13:38 PM »
FWIW the electronic ignition on my 550 is failing. Overheating is causing the 2/3 cylinders to cut out. It made some of my desert riding last month dicey until some advice from members pointed me towards the problem and I finally tried running without a points cover, which 'fixed' the problem. TwoTired lent me (and installed for me) a replacement points setup so I didn't have to worry about it during the rest of my ride home.

I have a points setup from one of my spare engines that I will be installing this week.
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Offline Gene

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Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2017, 09:32:13 PM »
FWIW the electronic ignition on my 550 is failing. Overheating is causing the 2/3 cylinders to cut out. It made some of my desert riding last month dicey until some advice from members pointed me towards the problem and I finally tried running without a points cover, which 'fixed' the problem. TwoTired lent me (and installed for me) a replacement points setup so I didn't have to worry about it during the rest of my ride home.

I have a points setup from one of my spare engines that I will be installing this week.

I haven't ever run the e-ignition so I can't say anything about it. I've heard glorious praise, and I get the "set it and forget it" point (pun intended). Makes sense.

All I can say is when there is problem with the points, I can fix it. THAT's what I like.
*1973 CB750K3 (Bow)

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2017, 01:58:19 AM »
The only time I've seen an ignition fail on a CB750 was when one of the point arms broke in two. There's no fixing a busted point arm on the side of the road........ ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline PeWe

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Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2017, 02:17:57 AM »
The only time I've seen an ignition fail on a CB750 was when one of the point arms broke in two. There's no fixing a busted point arm on the side of the road........ ;D
I had a problem 1988 in France on the nice highway. Suddenly running on 2 cylinders. Rode to a gas station and found that the bakelite lobe on one of the points were broken.
A french guy helped me to explain the problems with a few words in French so I could explain for the mechanics not speaking englisg later on. Others told me whhere to find a Honda repair shop in a nearby small village.
The shop meachanic did not have CB750 points but he could repair the point by removing the faulty half and use from another new point.

YES, not TEC points, infameous Daichii I bought new just before the trip. Point broke after about 5000 km. I'm not sure if I had lubricated the advancer properly.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 02:51:47 AM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2017, 02:39:47 AM »
And that's another problem Per, it's getting harder and harder to find anything but sub standard points now, whereas electronic ignitions are everywhere. Here's a pic I took when I installed a NOS Martek EI and Dyna 3 Ohm coils on my Suzuki GS1000 a few years ago, you could weld with that spark! Cheers, Terry. ;D

DSCN0659 by Terry Prendergast, on Flickr
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline PeWe

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Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2017, 02:52:52 AM »
It did not weld holes in the psitons?  ???
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Thoughts about points
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2017, 03:05:26 AM »
No mate, but it burned ALL the fuel/air mix, not just some of it............ ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)