Author Topic: are longer shocks dangerous?  (Read 6167 times)

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Offline Wbflyer

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are longer shocks dangerous?
« on: September 15, 2017, 09:13:11 AM »
I am looking to get a 14" shock but stock front end with progressive springs.  I have heard from some vendors that longer rear shocks could cause tank slap.  Should i stick with stock size which I believe it 13"

Offline seanbarney41

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Re: are longer shocks dangerous?
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2017, 09:36:45 AM »
On what bike?   Cb750k0-k6, I would say yes, 14" would be dangerous
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 11:36:22 AM by seanbarney41 »
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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: are longer shocks dangerous?
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2017, 09:49:50 AM »
I put longer shocks on my 550.  It's okay.  Makes the sidestand virtually useless.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: are longer shocks dangerous?
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2017, 10:18:19 AM »
Raising the rear of frame changes front end geometry.  I believe doing so makes the front more likely to wobble and perhaps make a tank slapper.  Other factors, such as tires also enter the equation, of course.

The extended swing arm also makes chain slack variation larger when the suspension moves.

Also raises CG of bike some.

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Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: are longer shocks dangerous?
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2017, 10:23:28 AM »
Raising the rear by a slight amount (less than an inch) will quicken the steering a bit, but too much may destabilize your bike. 
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline Wbflyer

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Re: are longer shocks dangerous?
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2017, 10:31:04 AM »
Ok, that is good to know.  I will stick with stock length.  Stock is 13" correct for a 1978 CB750K?

Offline TwoTired

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Re: are longer shocks dangerous?
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2017, 10:36:34 AM »
I'll note that shock length is a rating/measurement for full extension.
The ride height is a function of spring loading.

Imo, you need to pay attention to more than just shock length.  Spring rate and compression loading need to be factored.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Geeto67

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Re: are longer shocks dangerous?
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2017, 10:40:21 AM »
I think stock length is 12.79" and then later 13.06" (remember these are METRIC bikes originally) or something oddball like that, most people just use 13" because that's whats available from all the shock dealers. I've run a cb750 with 14" shocks and it wasn't ideal, 13.5" is as high as I would go and even then you aren't gaining much in handling and giving up a lot in stability.

If you can find a shock place that measures theirs in MM, I would look for a 340mm shock (13.3") because that would give you a 13" ride height after sag. Otherwise 330mm shocks are 12.99".
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Offline 754

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Re: are longer shocks dangerous?
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2017, 10:42:42 AM »
If you run the later swingarm on a  earlier 750, 14 inch , May put it right back where it should be.
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Geeto67

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Re: are longer shocks dangerous?
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2017, 10:49:33 AM »
If you run the later swingarm on a  earlier 750, 14 inch , May put it right back where it should be.

I think you need a DOHC swingarm for that.
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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: are longer shocks dangerous?
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2017, 11:21:26 AM »
The real question isn't necessarily "how long" but "which pair of shocks?!"

Offline Wbflyer

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Re: are longer shocks dangerous?
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2017, 11:24:00 AM »
OK, so that is good to know about spring rate.  I would want it to not sage much at on while on the bike.  i can even sacrifice ride quality a little. 

Can I get some suggestions on vendors and shocks for it?  Price is a concern but not too much of a concern. I do want all black though.  I'm not a fan of the look of the Progressive brand shocks for the cb750.

Offline Geeto67

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Re: are longer shocks dangerous?
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2017, 11:31:57 AM »
call Dave Quinn when he gets back from vacation:

https://www.davequinnmotorcycles.com/

Hagons are a good budget shock and he goes above and beyond to make sure you get a set that are properly setup for your weight
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Offline Wbflyer

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Re: are longer shocks dangerous?
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2017, 12:26:20 PM »
Awesome! Thanks for the suggestion, i will reach out to him. 

Offline my name is nobody

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Re: are longer shocks dangerous?
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2017, 02:47:18 PM »
  I have heard from some vendors that longer rear shocks could cause tank slap. 


Here to tell ya , that's true men :o :o




Offline Wbflyer

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Re: are longer shocks dangerous?
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2017, 03:14:17 PM »
Nils (noblehops on this forum) owns RestorationCycle. They're Ikon dealers and top notch blokes!

I can't find restoration cycles on the interwebs..

Offline 754

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Re: are longer shocks dangerous?
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2017, 03:51:39 PM »
Why are you talking Dohc swingarm, ? I mean the longer 77/78 F and K arms.

When buying shocks the spring often are mounted lower on the shock body, meaning you can't run stock chainguard.
Progressive won't fit without removing the guard.
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline BomberMann650

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Re: are longer shocks dangerous?
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2017, 04:18:53 PM »
Nils (noblehops on this forum) owns RestorationCycle. They're Ikon dealers and top notch blokes!

I can't find restoration cycles on the interwebs..

I think it's just resto-cycle.

Offline Stev-o

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Re: are longer shocks dangerous?
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2017, 04:52:19 PM »
Nils (noblehops on this forum) owns RestorationCycle. They're Ikon dealers and top notch blokes!
I can't find restoration cycles on the interwebs..
https://www.restocycle.com/ikon-suspension-products

+1 on Resto Cycle.
I put a nice pair of Ikons on my K3. Nils fixed me up...
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Offline The French Dude

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Re: are longer shocks dangerous?
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2017, 05:41:29 PM »
have 14" on my 750k7.
Great look great handling nothing wrong
77' cb750k

Offline slikwilli420

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Re: are longer shocks dangerous?
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2017, 07:40:35 AM »
I have 14.25" shocks on my race bike from race tech. I adjusted the trail with custom trees but it is extremely stable at speed. I am also running a shindy steering damper.
All you gotta do is do what you gotta do.

Vintage Speed Parts Mashup: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=133638.0
Rickman CR Parts Kit Refresh: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,154837.0.html
AHRMA CB750 Racer: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,158461.0.html
AHRMA Superbike Heavyweight Racer: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173120.0.html
'76F CB750 Patina Redemption: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,174871.0.html

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: are longer shocks dangerous?
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2017, 06:34:34 PM »
Mention you are an sohc4 member to Nils, won't hurt to ask Dave Quinn if he offers any discount to sohc4 forum members.  Consider the rebuildable/adjustable Ikons, a better shock than Hagons but Hagons make Progressives shocks look like the FVQ shocks Honda put on the CX500 which were worn out in the first year.  Joke is FVQ stands for Fades Very Quickly.
If you can afford the Ikons, go with them.  You will most likely be happy with either, the Ikons are going to be better if you love pushing the bike through curvy roads at speed as they have a slight handling edge and Nils can put the right set of springs in the Ikons to suit your weight as well as there are some choices available.

David
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: are longer shocks dangerous?
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2017, 02:49:10 AM »
IKONs can be ordered to your specs and are higher quality than Hogon or Progressive.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
2008 Triumph Thruxton (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,190956.0.html)
2014 MV Agusta Brutale Dragster 800
2015 Yamaha FZ-09 (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,186861.0.html)

"There are some things nobody needs in this world, and a bright-red, hunch-back, warp-speed 900cc cafe racer is one of them — but I want one anyway, and on some days I actually believe I need one.... Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba." Hunter S. Thompson, Song of the Sausage Creature, Cycle World, March 1995.  (http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html and https://magazine.cycleworld.com/article/1995/3/1/song-of-the-sausage-creature)

Sold/Emeritus
1973 CB750K2 "Bionic Mongrel" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=132734.0) - Sold
1977 CB750K7 "Nine Lives" Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=50490.0) - Sold
2005 RVT1000RR RC51-SP2 "El Diablo" - Sold
2016+ Triumph Thruxton 1200 R (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,170198.0.html) - Sold

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: are longer shocks dangerous?
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2017, 09:45:33 AM »
As said above, Ikons are a top tier shock whereas a Hagon is an excellent shock, worth every penny and more than adequate for most riders, but, that being said if you can afford the Ikons, then spend the extra, you will not have buyers remorse on them if you can afford to spend the extra.  They are better than the Hagons.  I imagine the Hagons are rebuildable, but the rebuildable Ikons will be rebuildable for decades from now as they have been around and will continue to be...the brand has always been excellent.  The Hagons are excellent and always have been and are not likely to change.  Many racers go with Ikons or Works Performance unless spending big dollars on suspension.
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: are longer shocks dangerous?
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2017, 11:28:31 AM »
Another point, the CB550 is going to be more dangerous extending the shock length because it turns in very nicely in stock form, much more readily than the cb750 will.  As a result the bike will be pushed past this very nicely mannered well handling bike into one that falls into turns possible at a quite abrupt and dangerous way and can result in an accident.  If your springs are not supporting the rider weight well/the rider weight is higher than average then your sag and/or ride height may be lower than a typical rider and it may move the bike back into settings more in line with the stock bike with a light to average rider...keeping the bike from " showing its teeth."  Preload may compensate some to adjust the ride height and sag but springs without sufficent strength for the rider weight or worn and requiring replacement are going to result in poor handling.

It is oft said the cheap Emgo shocks that used to sell around the $80-100 range are radically  oversprung, that is...their spring weight is too high for just about every rider, as a result they are very harsh and the suspension and therefore the tires do not work well resulting in ride handling issues.  No clue what they sell for today...just know to advise others to avoid them. Whether or not they would work if resprung, don't know, it would be throwing more money at a bad product hoping to make an ok product.  That math does not compute anyway you try to calculate it.
 In that case, it would be better you save money to replace them and be careful until they are replaced that they do not cause you to wreck if you were to find yourself pushing the bike hard and you hit a pothole or debris with the rebound being so hard it upsets the traction at a time where you are near the limit of the tire's traction and need every bit of that traction.
My $0.02, or is that more of a $0.05 or $0.10 worth?


David- back in the desert SW!