Topic: are longer shocks dangerous?

[BomberMann650]

Rafi, my experience with overlength shocks was not that.
+15mm was not enough to make the bike unsafe.  It did become a little more responsive to rider input.

Radicially jacking up the rear and slamming the front to attain "brat" status - that will most certainly fark the geometry.

[RAFster122s]

Since stock 550 is a 12.5" free length and the 14" spec'd is 1.5" or roughly 38mm difference it would depend upon the preload settings and sag/loaded height seen by the bike as a result of the extra length.  I would not expect a 15 mm increase to be felt by many except those whom are pushing a bike hard on a track consistently or they are very aggressive riding on curvy roads.  Your experience supports that...
There are rake and trail calculators on the net to see what the change in length could do to the handling.  Dropping the fork triple trees on the front while increasing the rear will be where change in angles is going to be more significant.  I am sure Honda designed in some tolerance in handling to account for a difference in rear ride height.

The chain path to the rear hub relative to the swing arm is also affected...bringing it closer to the top of  the swing arm with longer shocks , according to another thread on the topic , and can lead to tension issues below the swing arm.

I put 1" longer shocks on my 550 but I am bigger than the average bear so my loaded free length is taken up by the lack of a stronger/higher rate spring.  A compromise for my budget initially.

[BomberMann650]

The good thing about many sohc4 honda are they come equipped with zero-trail forks.

Making them much more forgiving to rake changes.  A bike with a 22deg rake angle can be just as safe as a bike with a 32 degree rake.  Our hondas fall near the middle of that range.

I cringe when I see swingarms running cockeyed angles out the back because some "lifted" the suspension sky high.  For the reason rafi mention.  I'm even more abhorred when I see it done to a shaft drive bike 😳

[Geeto67]

How expensive are the Ikons? I can't see the website at work, but if they are anything like the ones for BMW they are like $500. At that price I would rather spend a few bucks extra and buy ohlins.

[BomberMann650]

Ohlins shocks would last you for a lifetime.

[Wbflyer]

So, it i have a customer seat, seat pan is flat on frame, so I need longer shocks to avoid hitting the seat?  I do not want a raked look to my bike.

[slikwilli420]

Ohlins shocks would last you for a lifetime.

True, but are quite expensive and I was not able to get anything from them accommodating the offset clevis for my CB750 for under $1300. I was able to get an IMO comparable set from Race Tech for $950. These are race-ready shocks and arguably the best you can buy in the US.

For half that you can get Ikon's which are a very nice shock and will serve the vast majority of riders very well. Having seen both up close, I would spend a few extra bucks and get Ikons over Hagons.

[Geeto67]

Ohlins shocks would last you for a lifetime.

True, but are quite expensive and I was not able to get anything from them accommodating the offset clevis for my CB750 for under $1300. I was able to get an IMO comparable set from Race Tech for $950. These are race-ready shocks and arguably the best you can buy in the US.

For half that you can get Ikon's which are a very nice shock and will serve the vast majority of riders very well. Having seen both up close, I would spend a few extra bucks and get Ikons over Hagons.

$1300, don't you guys have a local Ohlins dealer you do business with? I have owned a couple sets of ohlins and usually can get them for around $750 a shock. I have also in the past bought web head shocks for cheap and had them rebuilt by an ohlins approved shop for less than $500.

[754]

 If you are not interested  in crazy lean angles, take your springs off and install limiters. Might have to shim springs or change to heavier.

[slikwilli420]

Ohlins shocks would last you for a lifetime.

True, but are quite expensive and I was not able to get anything from them accommodating the offset clevis for my CB750 for under $1300. I was able to get an IMO comparable set from Race Tech for $950. These are race-ready shocks and arguably the best you can buy in the US.

For half that you can get Ikon's which are a very nice shock and will serve the vast majority of riders very well. Having seen both up close, I would spend a few extra bucks and get Ikons over Hagons.

$1300, don't you guys have a local Ohlins dealer you do business with? I have owned a couple sets of ohlins and usually can get them for around $750 a shock. I have also in the past bought web head shocks for cheap and had them rebuilt by an ohlins approved shop for less than $500.

Nope, but I did have discussions with one of the US reps at Barber last year and that is what he quoted me. The only place to get factory repairs on your Ohlins shocks in the US is their single facility so there may be some shops building things up, but I am wary of any dealings with them. I went with Race Tech, which are AHRMA supporters and from what I can tell, every bit as good and far less expensive.

[Wbflyer]

Crap..  I ordered a set of Progressive shocks at 13".  These might not work now since my seat will be near the frame rail... 

[BomberMann650]

Progressives have a static preload/height adjuster.  (At least trash can's do)
Firm feels good for hard cornering. 

[MikeSimon]

The good thing about many sohc4 honda are they come equipped with zero-trail forks.

 

Could you please elaborate on that?
I have never encountered a bike with zero trail.
If my CB750 SOHC really has zero trail, I will sell it as is, in parts, and never swing a leg over it.

[754]

Crap..  I ordered a set of Progressive shocks at 13".  These might not work now since my seat will be near the frame rail... 

You can put limiter bushings on any length shock. Basically a split bushing or spool held to get her with snap rings  or wired. Then put the bumper below it.

[Wbflyer]

Crap..  I ordered a set of Progressive shocks at 13".  These might not work now since my seat will be near the frame rail... 

You can put limiter bushings on any length shock. Basically a split bushing or spool held to get her with snap rings  or wired. Then put the bumper below it.

Ok, good!  Should I get over 13" though.  I called and told them to not ship yet.  I bought them from Dynoman.

[BomberMann650]

The good thing about many sohc4 honda are they come equipped with zero-trail forks.

 

Could you please elaborate on that?
I have never encountered a bike with zero trail.
If my CB750 SOHC really has zero trail, I will sell it as is, in parts, and never swing a leg over it.

Maybe I used a wrong word. 
What I was pointing towards was the fork/axle offset (or lack thereof) does not add to the trail equation.

[Geeto67]

If you can afford it, don't even buy them as they are crap shocks. Actually, not crap, but REALLY CRAP. Their performance for damping, rebound, and spring weight all sucks. And if you do use limiters as was suggested, they'll suck even more. Sorry, but its true.

You're much better off spending some money (I know, its tight with EVERYONE) on a decent set of shocks one time and leave crappy suspension products on the web. Hagons or Ikons at a minimum. Nils (Noblehops of Restocycle is a member here) will hook you up with a quality shock, set up for you, at a manageable length to help your predicament with the clearance. Give him a holler-

Progressive shocks are the old SW shocks from the 1970's. In fact most of progressive suspension's part numbers still carry the old SW part number. I think the company was sold sometime around the early 1980s and renamed. The thing is, the design stopped evolving and over the years progressive kept outsourcing the parts and setting them up in "most popular" configurations instead of what actually worked. It's almost better to buy the shock without a spring and then figure out what spring works best than it is to buy one fully assembled and then have to change out the springs, esp since a lot of them come with that weird dual spring setup now.

They are better than worn out 30-50year old stockers but that's about all I can say about them. I do have a pair of older magnums from when the company first switched over that I freshened up not long ago and they are actually pretty nice - much better than the ones I bought 10 years ago new.

The problem I have with progressives is that there is a lot of inventory floating out there at the moment. Meaning a lot of those shocks have been sitting in their boxes for years. When a shock sits air leaks in and degrades performance. Most people don't know to do this but you are supposed to "prime" shocks before use - which means remove the spring and pump the shock all the way through it's travel about 20 times. This will 1) push out all the air and 2) tell you if the internals are wasted or not. If after 20 pumps you still feel "surging" in the shaft's movement, the shock itself is garbage and needs to be replaces (or refilled with heavier oil).

[Wbflyer]

Ok, I asked them to refund my money since they have not shipped them yet.  We will see if they give me a hard time or not.  I guess I will be spending more money.

[Wbflyer]

Just bought Ikons, base model, for $260.  Hopefully they will be better than the Progressives with the heavy duty spring.