Topic: Confused about CB750 model designations

[postoak]

The Wikipedia article on the CB750 shows this:

1969 - K0
1970 - K1
1971 - K2
1973 - K3

Notice how they skipped 1972, thus aligning the model year to the model number?  But right down below that they have 1972 production figures and if you look on youtube you see references to "1972 K2".  What's going on here?  Is the 1975 a K6 or a K5, for example?

[ekpent]

Technically I believe the 1969/sandcast is just called a CB750. Some questions whether a 1970 was actually listed as a K0 or a way for people to designate a 1970. As far as I know a 1971 is a K1-1972 K2 right up through the years. K5 for instance is a 1975.

[seanbarney41]

also...so the k0-6 are based on build dates, which don't necessarily correspond with western model years...lots of k1's built in 70 AND 71, started k2 production in 71...etc.

[seanbarney41]

also...often bikes would not sell for a few years and not get titled until they sold.  So you often find k3 that did not sell until '75 listed on a title as a 75 model, for example.

[seanbarney41]

good info by serial number here...
www.sohc4.net/cb750k-model-guide/

[CycleRanger]

Technically the "K2" was produced for three or four years for the export market. (Europe etc.)
I believe only North America got the K3-K5.
Or something like that, I'd have to get the book out to be more precise.
That probably accounts for the Wikipedia description.

[postoak]

Okay, the K numbers were sometimes produced over multiple years and other times two different K numbers were produced in a single calendar year. 

But when these bikes came into U.S. dealer showrooms were they officially stated to be a certain year model, or was it just an unofficial thing?  Because if it was official then there should be a strict connection between K number and model year.

[kmb69]

Technically I believe the 1969/sandcast is just called a CB750. Some questions whether a 1970 was actually listed as a K0 or a way for people to designate a 1970. As far as I know a 1971 is a K1-1972 K2 right up through the years. K5 for instance is a 1975.

That is correct. Back in the day, the K1 was the first official "K" designation. Honda called the Sandcasts and the "K0"s just CB750 initially. The K0 was applied later to differentiate the Sandcast and diecast models pre K1.

Okay, the K numbers were sometimes produced over multiple years and other times two different K numbers were produced in a single calendar year. 

But when these bikes came into U.S. dealer showrooms were they officially stated to be a certain year model, or was it just an unofficial thing?  Because if it was official then there should be a strict connection between K number and model year.

There is a strict connection between K models and build dates except for the non-US K2's as CycleRanger states.

also...often bikes would not sell for a few years and not get titled until they sold.  So you often find k3 that did not sell until '75 listed on a title as a 75 model, for example.

seanbarney41 is correct. This practice was stopped sometime in the mid seventies but I am not sure what year. So you could have a K2 for example, titled in 73 and called a 73. But the manufacturing date and serial number on the VIN tag will correctly identify it as a K2.

[postoak]

I'm still not understanding.  When Honda came out with a different K model did they or did they not describe it as being such-and-such model year?

Or, did they just push out CB750s without giving them a model year?

[CycleRanger]

Yes dealers and the sales literature advertised them by model year however very little changed most years other than available colors.

[kmb69]

I'm still not understanding.  When Honda came out with a different K model did they or did they not describe it as being such-and-such model year?

Or, did they just push out CB750s without giving them a model year?

Honda started applying VIN tags with the manufacturing date on the "K0" models. Honda used the K? designation to differentiate the changes that were roughly associated with "year models". IMHO, HONDA did not care so much about the model year like automobile manufacturers do until the US Government forced the issue mid seventies.

[postoak]

Yes dealers and the sales literature advertised them by model year however very little changed most years other than available colors.

And they didn't describe a single K number as being more than one model year did they?

If the answer to that is "no" then I don't see how there could NOT be a very strict correlation between K number (or complete lack there of as in the case of the '69s) and model year.

The only exception to that would be if there were retroactive changes, such as the '69s had no K number but were later given the K0 designation (along with the 1970 models).

[kmb69]

Yes dealers and the sales literature advertised them by model year however very little changed most years other than available colors.

And they didn't describe a single K number as being more than one model year did they?

If the answer to that is "no" then I don't see how there could NOT be a very strict correlation between K number (or complete lack there of as in the case of the '69s) and model year.

The only exception to that would be if there were retrospective changes, such as the '69s had no K number but were later given the K0 designation (along with the 1970 models).

The answer is "no". They were K1 - 1971, K2 - 1972, and so on except for the K2's that were exported for several years to countries other than the US.

The WIKI is wrong!

[CycleRanger]

And they didn't describe a single K number as being more than one model year did they?

Only North America got the K3-K6 so only in North America would k3-K6 strictly correspond to model years.

As Kmb69 says, technically the Wiki is wrong.
 

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Then there was the K0 Super Sport as described in Honda parts systems. aka 1975 cb750F.

[kmb69]

Then there was the K0 Super Sport as described in Honda parts systems. aka 1975 cb750F.

Yep, Honda used the "K" designator to specify the technical model as opposed to year model per se. It just works out the way it does for the K1-K8 IMHO. Then they applied "F" to the later Super Sports and did not use any designator other than year model, AFAIK, to the Automatics. They were all CB750A's without any other model identifier and they were pretty much the same bike technically except for the parts that changed aligned with the K6, K7, and K8 production. They did change paint schemes and wheels for different years but did not offer a different model designator other than year.

[postoak]

I am updating this thread with the information in that link pointed to by Sean so as to have a handy reference:

CB750K0 - 1969-1970 (kind of vague compared to later K numbers) (53400)

CB750K1 - August 1970 - November 1971 (15) (77,000)

CB750K2 - November 1971 - September 1972 (12) (63,500)

CB750K3 - September 1972 - June 1973 (9) (38000)

CB750K4 - June 1973 - May 1974 (11) (60000)

CB750K5 - May 1974 - December 1974 (7) (35000)

CB750K6 - December 1974 - June 1976 (18) (42000)

CB750K7 - June 1976 - May 1977 (11) (38000)

CB750K8 - May 1977 - May 1978 (12) (36000)

And doing the math, I've put number of months production in parenthesis after each "run" followed by production numbers.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

The 1975 CB750 K0 Super Sport ran from 1/75 to 4/7/1975. CB750F-1000002 to CB750F-10015054.

[Stev-o]

I am updating this thread with the information in that link pointed to by Sean so as to have a handy reference:

CB750K0 - 1969-1970 (kind of vague compared to later K numbers) (53400)

As stated above the first 7414 were not designated K0, but are Sandcast [motors]


Now I have a question about one of my bikes.  The VIN plate states a build date of 7/70, number 1044665. Hondachopper shows it as a K1, but SOHC4 a K0!  What gives??
I'm not a choppa guy, but a lot of you guys refer to them for some info.

http://www.hondachopper.com/engine/engine_timeline/timeline.html
http://www.sohc4.net/cb750k1/

[postoak]

The 1975 CB750 K0 Super Sport ran from 1/75 to 4/7/1975. CB750F-1000002 to CB750F-10015054.

I thought the Super Sport was the same thing as the F model.  (?) And is there such a thing as a K0 Super Sport?

[CycleRanger]

Now I have a question about one of my bikes.  The VIN plate states a build date of 7/70, number 1044665. Hondachopper shows it as a K1, but SOHC4 a K0!  What gives??
I'm not a choppa guy, but a lot of you guys refer to them for some info.

http://www.hondachopper.com/engine/engine_timeline/timeline.html
http://www.sohc4.net/cb750k1/

According to Haycock you have a K1, just barely.
In his book it says K1 from frame #1044650, Engine # E1044806
Released 9/21/70
The Duckworth book gives the same date with no numbers.

HOWEVER, according to the Wyatt book you have a K0.
This is because the two authors differ in their definition of a K0.
And this is probably why internet sources differ.
Personally I would go with the Haycock numbers.
I think there's a bit of supposition in the Wyatt book.

I would think you'd have to tally the "K0" features vs. the "K1" features on your bike and decide for yourself.

I would also like to add that I'm super pissed they reprinted the Wyatt book as I paid a fair bit for my original copy.

Before you buy bikes - buy books. 

[seanbarney41]

The 1975 CB750 K0 Super Sport ran from 1/75 to 4/7/1975. CB750F-1000002 to CB750F-10015054.

I thought the Super Sport was the same thing as the F model.  (?) And is there such a thing as a K0 Super Sport?

you are correct, not sure what Jerry is getting on about now

[Stev-o]

Now I have a question about one of my bikes.  The VIN plate states a build date of 7/70, number 1044665. Hondachopper shows it as a K1, but SOHC4 a K0!  What gives??
I'm not a choppa guy, but a lot of you guys refer to them for some info.

http://www.hondachopper.com/engine/engine_timeline/timeline.html
http://www.sohc4.net/cb750k1/

According to Haycock you have a K1, just barely.
In his book it says K1 from frame #1044650, Engine # E1044806
Released 9/21/70
The Duckworth book gives the same date with no numbers.

That's what I thought all along but my build date is 7/70.   
And my title states 1970 but that was my doing!

I prefer to go K0 but will have to see if it has enough K0 bits or if I am willing to buy them when I restore it this winter. 

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

The 1975 CB750 K0 Super Sport ran from 1/75 to 4/7/1975. CB750F-1000002 to CB750F-10015054.

I thought the Super Sport was the same thing as the F model.  (?) And is there such a thing as a K0 Super Sport?

Yes, that is correct. Honda listed/termed the first F's as K0 Super Sports. The young kid at one of the locals Honda shops argued with me one day that there was not a 1975 Honda CB750F when he tried looking up a part on their microfiche. What he saw was K0 Super Sport. Not widely used though.

[robvangulik]

Actually the K5 was the 750 with the least amount of horsepower in the whole series, so how about "supersport"?
The F and F1 supersports were the first after a long time listed by Honda with the original 67 hp again, and when actually tested on a bench were found to have 70+ hp, and the F2 came out even better.
I'll see if I can find the magazine article stating this tomorrow, it'almost 1 in the morning here now, and I've had a busy day at a classic bike festival today, with the right kind of weather, so I've had it for the day