Topic: soldering

[evinrude7]

i have a tough time with soldering. i have been able to make connections with solder but they look ugly as #$%* and it takes me a long time to finally get a sold connection.  recently i was soldering a start switch in and i noticed some capillary action going on.  the solder was crawling up the braided wire nicely and made a great connection.  i cannot for the life of me reproduce those results.  any help/tips are appreciated.   

[ekpent]

 Are you using a flux compound ?  https://www.lifewire.com/types-of-solder-flux-818849

[MoMo]

One tip is make sure the wires are heated and then lightly touch solder to the wire, and preheat the gun. Practice....Larry

[b52bombardier1]

Old wire often has a copper oxide on it that solder will not easily stick to. Try a little sandpaper on the copper wire and see if that helps.

Rick

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[CycleRanger]

All of the above!  It does take some practice.
Having a good soldering iron really makes a difference but you can still do good work with a basic iron.
This video has some good, basic tips. And there's lots more "how to solder" vids on the 'tube.

[jgger]

Don't try to put soldier ON the wire, the wire needs to be hot enough to carry the soldier. Use only the tip of your gun or iron because that is where the heat is best. Hold it as firmly on the wire as you can and let it heat up and melt the flux. You will get a little puff of smoke then you see the liquefied flux start to boil, at that point touch the soldier to the WIRE on the opposite side from the gun and see if it melts. If it doesn't then keep the tip of the soldier wire and the gun on the wire with a little pressure (like pinching the wire with the gun and the soldier). It should start melting with the pressure pull the soldier back and keep the heat on the wire just a tad longer and it should draw right in.

Also if you are using too large of a diameter soldier it is very hard to get a nice joint.

If you have goobers on the gun or iron tip, or the nuts that hold the tip on the gun are loose it really cuts down on the heat. You can file/sand the tip to clean it up. If you are using an iron keep a wet sponge or a
paper towel close and wipe the tip across it after making a connection, this will help keep the tip in tip top shape.

[Trevor from Warragul]

Best thing I ever bought was a gas soldering iron.  Pretty much instant heat & the wires don't get too hot as a result.  Terry will back me up here...

Trevor

[calj737]

Also if you are using too large of a diameter soldier it is very hard to get a nice joint.

^^^^This

[FuZZie]

What wattage is the iron your using?
kind of sounds like you only got it hot enough to flow once?

If you do have a good iron and are worried about damaging the sheathing/contacts (melt) pick up a few heat sinks really helps (in a pinch couple of alligator clips will work).

Also check what base medal the solider is made from, lead and silver have different melt points.
A good thing to have is some solider wick, if it won't wick up your not hot enough and on the other hand if you want to clean up a bit of a bloblish thingy a quick touch with the wick will smooth it out.

I've a bunch of irons and micro torches and a gas iron but I usually grab my old school welder gun for this kind of stuff.

You could also cheat a bit, do a search for low temp solider. You might like what you can do with a bit of that stuff and a match in a pinch.

[333]

Most people believe that it's the iron that heats the wire, and when it's hot enough, the solder will then melt. But the real trick is to feed the solder on to the iron, and as the blob gets big enough, it should be placed on the connection to be soldered.  Basically you're heating the joint with the solder.

[RAFster122s]

I would not sand my tip, they have a special coating, breaking in the tip correctly and it will stay wetted with solder but if you do not it will oxidize and solder will not wet out on the surface.  Having a little solder on the tip helps the heat transfer, too much can cause problems...

Flux can help clean the wires, dip or paint a bit on the wires with a brush. It will burn away impurities or bring them to the surface.  Don't use acid core solder or acid flux, it has to be neutralized after soldering.  You can safely get away without cleaning after solder on rosin core. Pencil tips can be difficult to get the hang of, you have to match the bevel to the wire or joint you are soldering.  Chisel tips do also but most find them easier to solder with if not doing circuitry on a printed circuit board.

[TwoTired]

Most people believe that it's the iron that heats the wire, and when it's hot enough, the solder will then melt. But the real trick is to feed the solder on to the iron, and as the blob gets big enough, it should be placed on the connection to be soldered.  Basically you're heating the joint with the solder.

No offense.  But, this advise is counter to all the electronics training I've recieved from the military to nasa.  And if you try to solder two copper water pipes together using the solder blob method you WILL fail.
All you are doing is adding mass to the iron with the solder, and if using flux core solder, increasing the flux volume.  You need an iron of sufficient mass to heat the subject. 
Irons are like wrenches, you need different ones for different jobs.
You will not properly solder two 6 gauge wires together with a 15w pencil tip iron no matter how big a glob of solder placed on it.  The same pencil tip will solder parts to circuit boards all day, provided the surface is clean and the proper amount of flux is used.

Flux is available in liquid and paste form.  For circuit boards I have a flux pen to mark the parts to be soldered.  On the sohc4, the flux pen doesn't work well.  But paste flux does.  That and a stainless wire brush to clean the oxide off the wire ends.

Anyone mention that most soldered subjects lose heat through conduction?  The mass and heat wattage must overcome the heat that is wicking away in order to raise the subject metal to solder melting temp.

Also be aware that solder is available in different alloy ratios. 60/40 is fairly standard. But, there are other ratios that heat and fllow differently.

Have you learned yet about pre-tinning the wires with solder to be joined? 
Are you also tinning your iron tip and cleaning it before attacking the subject?  The iron tip can oxidize too.  There are numerous tip cleaners out there from wetted sponges to things that look like kitchen pan scrubbers.  The latter cleans without wicking tip heat away.

Whatever you solder, the joint should be clean a shiny like it were polished when when finished.  The molten metal must be allowed to cool in place without the subject parts moving about in the molten solder.

Cheers,

[evinrude7]

wow!  loads of advice.  much appreciated. 

[FuZZie]

I would not sand my tip, they have a special coating,

This is probability fine raf for the heavy irons, but you get into more detailed stuff and a properly tinned tip is a huge help.

[TwoTired]

I would not sand my tip, they have a special coating,

This is probability fine raf for the heavy irons, but you get into more detailed stuff and a properly tinned tip is a huge help.

All quality iron tips are coated and sanding essentially destroys them and then you have to sand every fricken time you solder. It also alters the tip shape.  There are tip cleaners totally safe for the coating and non abrasive.  It's all you need to keep the tip clean, particularly if you have temperature controlled irons.

When I was a tech in the late 70s I ran the engineering development lab.  There was a rash of destroyed tips I kept replacing.  Finally, an engineer boasted about sanding the tips for good soldering,  which he actually sucked at.  I told him to stop doing that, and I would teach him to clean tips without sanding.  He was not impressed.   So, I set aside his very own iron, and insisted he not destroy any others in the lab.  Cause I would throw away any that I found sanded apart from his.  I also offered to do all his soldering for him.

I eventually taught him to clean tips without sandpaper.  And the lab was again harmonious.   

Cheers,

[jgger]

Hey that tip about sanding the tip I posted earlier ..............Never mind!

I did not know about the coating on the tip, I guess that's why I have to sand the tip every fricken time to quote Two Tired! I stand corrected AND educated now! 

[MoMo]

I had a two week soldering class in the Air Force,  the topic of coated tips was never addressed    Thanks for the info TT...Larry

[FuZZie]

I would not sand my tip, they have a special coating,

This is probability fine raf for the heavy irons, but you get into more detailed stuff and a properly tinned tip is a huge help.

All quality iron tips are coated and sanding essentially destroys them and then you have to sand every fricken time you solder. It also alters the tip shape.  There are tip cleaners totally safe for the coating and non abrasive.  It's all you need to keep the tip clean, particularly if you have temperature controlled irons.

When I was a tech in the late 70s I ran the engineering development lab.  There was a rash of destroyed tips I kept replacing.  Finally, an engineer boasted about sanding the tips for good soldering,  which he actually sucked at.  I told him to stop doing that, and I would teach him to clean tips without sanding.  He was not impressed.   So, I set aside his very own iron, and insisted he not destroy any others in the lab.  Cause I would throw away any that I found sanded apart from his.  I also offered to do all his soldering for him.

I eventually taught him to clean tips without sandpaper.  And the lab was again harmonious.   

Cheers,

No sandpaper is involved in a "properly tinned tip". 

[Steve F]

Something that no one has mentioned, Soldering of wires makes them subject to breakage.  This is why aircraft manufacturers and maintenance prohibit the soldering of wire joints.  Solder makes the stranded wire virtually a solid wire and therefore very inflexible.  Vibrations then can easily break a wire.

[RAFster122s]

With a good set of ratcheting crimpers and a good connector you can make a superior joint that is gas tight. Soldering makes a gas tight joint too but as Steve F has pointed out, it will fracture the wire when subjected to vibration over time.  Not every soldered joint is going to fail due to vibration, just those which are vibrating near the joint and the wire around the joint does not vibrate at the same frequency or intensity.

A standard plier type crimper cannot deliver a gas tight joint. A ratcheting type can exert enough force to make it a gas tight joint.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Re-tin your tip often. Sometimes I will re-tin after every solder joint depending on the work.
Get a solder wire sponge instead of an actual sponge like this one to maintain tip temps better - [/url]https://gokimco.com/tip-cleaner-with-brass-coils.html gdffi=a2b2595eeb2e44a8bc2e332d298712bc&gdfms=6C1F4DE7880446A7BED5800469FFB9FC&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI58iomLjA1gIVFJ7ACh0CYQQdEAQYAyABEgJkqfD_BwE[/url]

And I found stepping up to a digitally controlled unit like this Hakko helped immensely - https://gokimco.com/hakko-fx888d-esd-safe-digital-soldering-station.html

[Don R]

 Solder has it's place but I crimp almost all of the wires on my race car. Exceptions would be the battery cables, etc. The professional racers crimp too.

[Terry in Australia]

Best thing I ever bought was a gas soldering iron.  Pretty much instant heat & the wires don't get too hot as a result.  Terry will back me up here...

Trevor

For sure Trev, best bloody 50 bucks I've spent in ages, I love my little gas soldering iron!

[333]

Most people believe that it's the iron that heats the wire, and when it's hot enough, the solder will then melt. But the real trick is to feed the solder on to the iron, and as the blob gets big enough, it should be placed on the connection to be soldered.  Basically you're heating the joint with the solder.

No offense.  But, this advise is counter to all the electronics training I've recieved from the military to nasa.  And if you try to solder two copper water pipes together using the solder blob method you WILL fail.
All you are doing is adding mass to the iron with the solder, and if using flux core solder, increasing the flux volume.  You need an iron of sufficient mass to heat the subject. 
Irons are like wrenches, you need different ones for different jobs.
You will not properly solder two 6 gauge wires together with a 15w pencil tip iron no matter how big a glob of solder placed on it.  The same pencil tip will solder parts to circuit boards all day, provided the surface is clean and the proper amount of flux is used.

Flux is available in liquid and paste form.  For circuit boards I have a flux pen to mark the parts to be soldered.  On the sohc4, the flux pen doesn't work well.  But paste flux does.  That and a stainless wire brush to clean the oxide off the wire ends.

Anyone mention that most soldered subjects lose heat through conduction?  The mass and heat wattage must overcome the heat that is wicking away in order to raise the subject metal to solder melting temp.

Also be aware that solder is available in different alloy ratios. 60/40 is fairly standard. But, there are other ratios that heat and fllow differently.

Have you learned yet about pre-tinning the wires with solder to be joined? 
Are you also tinning your iron tip and cleaning it before attacking the subject?  The iron tip can oxidize too.  There are numerous tip cleaners out there from wetted sponges to things that look like kitchen pan scrubbers.  The latter cleans without wicking tip heat away.

Whatever you solder, the joint should be clean a shiny like it were polished when when finished.  The molten metal must be allowed to cool in place without the subject parts moving about in the molten solder.

Cheers,

Soldering electronics and sweating copper pipe are totally different from each other. Different solder, different flux, different methods.   

As for the solder, plumbing solder doesn't have flux in it. A petroleum based flux must be added to encourage the solder to flow in to the pipe. Plumbing flux used to be acid based.  I don't know why the change.  Solder for electronics has a rosin based flux inside the solder.  You are correct in that in soldering pipe, you heat the pipe and then apply the solder.  With electronics, heating the solder first reduces the affect of either melting the insulation off of wire, or damaging electronic components or traces on a circuit board from excess heat.

[TwoTired]

Soldering electronics and sweating copper pipe are totally different from each other. Different solder, different flux, different methods.   

What? That's just silly.  Bonding solder to copper is the SAME process, whether its wire or pipe.  The solder binds with the surface molecules of the copper.
To do that, the copper molecules have to be excited by heat to make room for the solder molecules to bind.  Wire or pipe makes NO difference to that fundamental.
The flux chosen can have two purposes, one to clean surface oxides/impurities to expose the base metal.  And two, to shield the exposed metal from further oxidation during the heating/soldering process.  There are many compositions of flux.

As for the solder, plumbing solder doesn't have flux in it.

Some do, some don't.  For mass installations, it is easier to apply a paste or liquid flux prior to adding solder.  But for repair work, flux core wire is available at nearly any hardware store.  You can actually use rosin flux core for the copper pipe bond.  However, in drinking water pipes, the residual flux can contaminate the water flowing.  Not recommended for ingestion.  Acid flux residue dissolves far more rapidly in potable water and flushes out much more quickly.  No doubt there are others flux types available.

I visited a circuit board production line where they used acid core flux in the soldering process.  Generally speaking, acid flux left on a circuit board will corrode over time when it sucks moisture out of the air and reactivates the acid.  This is why Rosin core is so widely recommended.  The visited facility knew their chemistry and provided a neutralizing bath and a cleaning solution to remove any remaining acid. 

A petroleum based flux must be added to encourage the solder to flow in to the pipe. Plumbing flux used to be acid based.  I don't know why the change.  Solder for electronics has a rosin based flux inside the solder.  You are correct in that in soldering pipe, you heat the pipe and then apply the solder.  With electronics, heating the solder first reduces the affect of either melting the insulation off of wire, or damaging electronic components or traces on a circuit board from excess heat.

Heating the solder first, often results in a cold solder joint, when hand soldering.  This is where the solder has encapsulated the wire but has not bonded with it.  There is a mechanical friction bond but not a molecular bond.  The molecular bond allows full electrical conductivity.  Cold solder joints won't flow electrical current fully, and often get worse over time, as oxygen penetrates the separation layer and oxidizes the base metal.

Cold solder joints are not smooth and shiny in appearance.  Their margins don't always taper to zero, but rather end abruptly.  Saves insulation, perhaps, defeats the electrical connection goal.

I've witnessed wave soldering production lines where the entire circuit board with parts on it is essentially dipped in molten solder.  There was always the person near the inspection table afterwards, hand soldering the voids or cold joints that occurred.   Even with temperature and time-in-the-wave controls, not all the joints were guaranteed, particularly at the beginning of a production run.  These boards were made with all new, un-oxidized parts.  Not even close to what 40 year old exposed copper has in oxidation.

It's not impossible to solder with a big enough solder blob, and I have done it in special circumstances.  But, definitely NOT the way to learn proper soldering techniques. IMO.  I don't know of any professionals that would advocate such.

Regards,