Author Topic: Who is taking a knee for this 4 year old?  (Read 4021 times)

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Offline chewbacca5000

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Who is taking a knee for this 4 year old?
« on: September 25, 2017, 10:40:25 AM »
Imagine if we spent the same amount of money, time, and energy on worthy causes instead of getting upset of a Twitter post?  What would the world look like then.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4764208/Child-miners-aged-four-living-hell-Earth.html

Offline calj737

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Re: Who is taking a knee for this 4 year old?
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2017, 10:56:16 AM »
It is part of the sad tale of the “illusion of clean energy” from electric vehicles. Cradle to grave (pardon the apparent reference to this horrid story) battery powered vehicles are far worse than to continue driving a fossil fueled vehicle already in production with parts and infrastructure present.

Whether it be cobalt or precious gems, Africa remains a continent of impoverished and exploited masses and riches all for the luxury of westerners. And their governments are as corrupt as any  >:(
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Who is taking a knee for this 4 year old?
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2017, 11:07:38 AM »
Its going to require generations of serious educational programming to repair the multitude of woes plauging Africa.

The naivety of the people stems from a total lack of basic understandings.  With regard to healthcare, finance, law, and politics. 

Easy picking for the corrupt.

Offline Geeto67

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Re: Who is taking a knee for this 4 year old?
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2017, 11:13:59 AM »
Imagine if we spent the same amount of money, time, and energy on worthy causes instead of getting upset of a Twitter post?  What would the world look like then.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4764208/Child-miners-aged-four-living-hell-Earth.html

I know you probably don't mean to say this but....equal rights in this country is somehow NOT a worthy cause?

we can't fix what's wrong here, what is to be done in a foreign country that the Belgains, French, UK, and US have been promoting political instability in for over 138 years? Don't get me wrong it sucks big time, it's all of the worst things on earth, but the world has problems - have to pick your battles. Some people are working on this issue through foreign humanitarian efforts, while others are tackling other initiatives like those here in the states. remember, every issue is important to somebody. If you want to focus your energy on this issue, by all means you should - figure out the humanitarian aid groups working on this and donate time and resources. Let other people worry about other things.

Africa isn't "as corrupt as any" it's probably one of the most corrupt continents based on all the small countries constantly churning governments.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 11:16:33 AM by Geeto67 »
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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Who is taking a knee for this 4 year old?
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2017, 11:57:36 AM »
Geeto - chewy is just trying to frame the perspective here.

Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: Who is taking a knee for this 4 year old?
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2017, 12:06:16 PM »
Geeto - chewy is just trying to frame the perspective here.

I am not upset at Geeto at all.  He is looking at things from a realistic perspective.  I will drive my old junk car for another 20 years before I subject another human being to that.

Theonion.com says it best.

http://www.theonion.com/article/world-agrees-just-take-down-internet-while-until-t-55200

Imagine what we could do in just a day, week, or month if we used this massive storehouse of information for good.  And no, not everyone in the world has access to the internet, and the internet believe it or not is different in different countries.  Different content.

Offline Geeto67

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Re: Who is taking a knee for this 4 year old?
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2017, 12:11:47 PM »
Geeto - chewy is just trying to frame the perspective here.

maybe but he's also doing, probably accidentally, what a lot of people do intentionally as part of political propaganda - diminish one cause by pointing out another one that is more horrible and asking why not this instead? It is a weaponized type of logical fallacy that is used often and understood by far less than should be. This is the other side of the coin to false equivalency: the tactic of taking two objectively diverse issues and making them seem the same so as to diminish one of them. 

he may be trying to "frame the perspective" but to me this isn't a square frame, and it isn't protecting the whole picture. It's wonky and does more harm than good.  It's not my intention to "upset" (call it collateral damage ;) ), but it's worth discussing.

I get that twitter is annoying, and in general in our mass media consumption universe public outrage can seem more annoying, but public outrage is still a political commodity, and it is meaningful for those looking to bring attention to an issue. In this case we have a genuine cause, the continued pursuit of equal rights, being brought to public attention by a protest, and we have a lot of discussion around it, including a lot of stuff on twitter, and some of it form very disappointing politicians (who may or may not be orange) - but it all serves a purpose. It shines a light on those who are understanding of the issue and know where their interests lie (like NFL) and others that outright oppose (like NASCAR or MLB).


When it comes to charity cases, I personally feel a good approach is to start with the question "what am I doing about it?" and work from there. Worrying about what others are paying attention to when you are not trying to recruit them to your cause is useless and only causes unnecessary anxiety. You don't like something in this world? do something about it. You want others to do something about it - work for the positive change, not the negative dismissal.
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Offline calj737

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Re: Who is taking a knee for this 4 year old?
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2017, 12:25:07 PM »
I wish everyone of those spoiled, indignant pro athletes would spend 1 day in a third world country laboring for 8p in a toxic cesspool and then tell me how “unequal” their rights are. They can all go @$%* themselves with their hypocritical horseplay.

I’m outta here.
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Offline Geeto67

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Re: Who is taking a knee for this 4 year old?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2017, 12:29:12 PM »

I am not upset at Geeto at all.  He is looking at things from a realistic perspective.  I will drive my old junk car for another 20 years before I subject another human being to that.

Theonion.com says it best.

http://www.theonion.com/article/world-agrees-just-take-down-internet-while-until-t-55200

Imagine what we could do in just a day, week, or month if we used this massive storehouse of information for good.  And no, not everyone in the world has access to the internet, and the internet believe it or not is different in different countries.  Different content.

thanks Chewy. If it helps, I also think of continuing to use old vehicles beyond their useful span as a form of recycling. It has to do with the pollution investment. It's funny, but my attitude on this came from something Hot Rod's David Freiburger wrote about the crusher camaro years ago. If you think about the changes in the EPA in the last 50 years, a lot of the pollution created in making these old vehicles has already been cleaned up and to continue to use them means one less new vehicle that is needed in the marketplace and thus less pollution to generated to make that vehicle. That's part of why I drove the same jeep for 22 years, and rode old motorcycles - they were inexpensive and keeping them running meant I didn't need to buy a new vehicle.

Of course the downside to old vehicles is the less than environmentally friendly methods in which used parts are obtained (junkyards) and the resources it consumes at a faster rate (16mpg out of a 3000lb vehicle? if it were a 2017 it would get mid 20's mpg).
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 12:38:22 PM by Geeto67 »
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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Who is taking a knee for this 4 year old?
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2017, 12:32:51 PM »
The false equivalency tactic is a thing.

Does anyone even remember WHY the NFL is having a rally round the grand ole flag?

Police Brutality thats why.  Kaepernick lost his 49'ers career over it.  In addition to being made a pariah by the interwebs.

The Seattle seahawks have completely opted out of compulsory flag worship.  Since Pro Bowl'r and Superbowl Champ Michael Bennet got tackled, pinned, and held at gunpoint by Vegas PD. 

But in a grand scheme of things.  Boko Haram is certainly treating Africans way worse than Vegas PD.

As far as charitable acts go, this cow is off to fill a Hearse with the clothing his ex girlfriend liked 😂

Offline Geeto67

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Re: Who is taking a knee for this 4 year old?
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2017, 12:37:17 PM »
I wish everyone of those spoiled, indignant pro athletes would spend 1 day in a third world country laboring for 8p in a toxic cesspool and then tell me how “unequal” their rights are. They can all go @$%* themselves with their hypocritical horseplay.

They did...it's called whatever neighborhood they grew up in. I used to live down the street from the Magnolia Projects in New Orleans, and I have lived next to Section 8 housing in Brooklyn, some of those places had as bad a living conditions as slums I have seen in Mexico and South America.  Plenty were closed in the 90's and 00's for being EPA Superfund sites too toxic to support housing. So they don't need to go to a foreign country to live in a toxic cesspool - the US has plenty.

Just because someone gets paid a lot of money for a very small amount of time in their lives doesn't mean they grew up spoiled. considering you said 8p I am going to assume your UK sensibilities prevent you from understanding the issue of racial inequality in the US, even though you seem to live here.

Quote
I’m outta here.

Good, the adults are talking anyway and none of us want to babysit.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 12:39:13 PM by Geeto67 »
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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Who is taking a knee for this 4 year old?
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2017, 12:57:55 PM »
Quote
I’m outta here.
Good, the adults are talking anyway and none of us want to babysit.

Whoa Geeto!  Please refer to the forum rules before posting anything like that again.

Cal is American btw. 

Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: Who is taking a knee for this 4 year old?
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2017, 12:58:43 PM »
I wish everyone of those spoiled, indignant pro athletes would spend 1 day in a third world country laboring for 8p in a toxic cesspool and then tell me how “unequal” their rights are. They can all go @$%* themselves with their hypocritical horseplay.

I’m outta here.

A lot of them did, we like to call them 'the projects' where I am from. Might as well be a third world country. Your point of view on this subject is... interesting to say the least.
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Offline Geeto67

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Re: Who is taking a knee for this 4 year old?
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2017, 01:09:07 PM »

Cal is American btw. 

Don't make excuses for people just looking to be jerks.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 01:11:08 PM by Geeto67 »
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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Who is taking a knee for this 4 year old?
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2017, 01:14:55 PM »
Cal is American btw. 
Don't make excuses for people just looking to be jerks.

Two wrongs don't make a right.


Offline Geeto67

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Re: Who is taking a knee for this 4 year old?
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2017, 01:18:30 PM »
Cal is American btw. 
Don't make excuses for people just looking to be jerks.

Two wrongs don't make a right.


but three rights make a left.

nothing wrong with giving Cal a little ribbing for an "extreme" opinion. he and I recently bonded over another forum a-hole anyway. This place seems to be lousy with them lately ;)
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 01:23:37 PM by Geeto67 »
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Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: Who is taking a knee for this 4 year old?
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2017, 01:54:11 PM »
Geeto - chewy is just trying to frame the perspective here.

maybe but he's also doing, probably accidentally, what a lot of people do intentionally as part of political propaganda - diminish one cause by pointing out another one that is more horrible and asking why not this instead? It is a weaponized type of logical fallacy that is used often and understood by far less than should be. This is the other side of the coin to false equivalency: the tactic of taking two objectively diverse issues and making them seem the same so as to diminish one of them. 

he may be trying to "frame the perspective" but to me this isn't a square frame, and it isn't protecting the whole picture. It's wonky and does more harm than good.  It's not my intention to "upset" (call it collateral damage ;) ), but it's worth discussing.

I get that twitter is annoying, and in general in our mass media consumption universe public outrage can seem more annoying, but public outrage is still a political commodity, and it is meaningful for those looking to bring attention to an issue. In this case we have a genuine cause, the continued pursuit of equal rights, being brought to public attention by a protest, and we have a lot of discussion around it, including a lot of stuff on twitter, and some of it form very disappointing politicians (who may or may not be orange) - but it all serves a purpose. It shines a light on those who are understanding of the issue and know where their interests lie (like NFL) and others that outright oppose (like NASCAR or MLB).


When it comes to charity cases, I personally feel a good approach is to start with the question "what am I doing about it?" and work from there. Worrying about what others are paying attention to when you are not trying to recruit them to your cause is useless and only causes unnecessary anxiety. You don't like something in this world? do something about it. You want others to do something about it - work for the positive change, not the negative dismissal.

So you just don't care, is that it?  What if it was your kid, would you care then?  There is a difference between grown men and 4 year olds is there not?  The 4 year old is too small and weak to defend themselves, so others have to do it.  I don't get you man.  Thought you were better than this.  I can see your NOT MY PROBLEM bumper sticker firmly attached to your electric car, be sure to have a picture of that 4 years child miner or child solider on there too.   

Get a T-Shrit and wear it with pride.

Proudly attach it to your care.

Better yet get on Twitter, and start a #NOTMYPROBLEM campaign to show the rest of the world what a great guy you are.

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Re: Who is taking a knee for this 4 year old?
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2017, 02:29:47 PM »
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Re: Who is taking a knee for this 4 year old?
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2017, 02:54:04 PM »
The false equivalency tactic is a thing.

Does anyone even remember WHY the NFL is having a rally round the grand ole flag?

Police Brutality thats why.  Kaepernick lost his 49'ers career over it. 



Ok, I'm against police brutality but is taking a knee going stop it?

Heck no!    CK is an idiot.
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Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: Who is taking a knee for this 4 year old?
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2017, 03:06:57 PM »
I think everyone is against police brutality, and their is some messed up things that have happened like shooting unarmed men in the back.  That is never right. 

Alot of the shootings can be avoided by following the directions of the police officers.

They got a wife and family to go home to, and if given a choice they will choose them over you.  It does not matter what color you are, the rule is you must comply or die!

It is that simple. As far as the whole knee thing, I believe in the right to protest, and maybe their contract forbid them from participating in other forms of protest?  IDK.

Educating people on how to act right around police will do more to prevent shootings than anything else IMO.  You can protest 24/7 if you act in an unpredictable manner around police there is a good chance you gonna get shot.

I almost got shot by a cop once on a dark rainy night.  My insurance id was in the glove box, and the copy had a vein throbbing with beads of sweat running down his forehead.  I could tell he was nervous so instead of reaching into my glove box I kept my hands where he could see them, he wrote me a ticket, and I went on my way.


Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Who is taking a knee for this 4 year old?
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2017, 03:30:04 PM »
The false equivalency tactic is a thing.
Does anyone even remember WHY the NFL is having a rally round the grand ole flag?
Police Brutality thats why.  Kaepernick lost his 49'ers career over it. 

Ok, I'm against police brutality but is taking a knee going stop it?
Heck no!    CK is an idiot.

He wanted to make people talk about it.  Seems to have worked.
Unfortunately the media machine took his act and radically altered the context.  Which managed to turn a nation of keyboard patriots against him. 

It's happening to Michael Bennet also; right now.  Since MB launched an unlawful use of force lawsuit against the LVPD - there have been several attempts to cast Bennet in the wrong.  Wondering "what was he doing at that club" stating "he should have known better than to run" (contextual note; shots had been fired and bennet was fleeing to safety when tackled by police).  Many of these statements are from staunch "Back the Blue" types and those who simply hate the ACLU.  Classic Victim Blaming is a theme here.
Watched the video.  While it wasn't the most brutal police takedown ever recorded.  It's entirely possible that MB might be having a little bit of PTSD.  As such an experience could cause the shift in perspective and self-questioning indicative of the syndrome.  Though it seems that enough meaniful interventions are happening that he won't devolve into a long-term sufferer.  Which is something rarely afforded to others in similar situations.

What happened to Michael Bennet just goes to show that it doesn't matter what celebrity status someone has.  Police will make their own assumptions and act upon them.  Which wouldn't be a problem if protocol was FULLY adhered to.  Or if the data didn't reflect a striking disparity in frequency of force used against the darker skinned.  Data that has been analyzed against several categories.  Proving that racial population percentage is not a factor.  And unfortunately highlighting that use of force against blacks is statistically higher in economically upscale neigbhorhoods.  Where the dogma  states "blacks don't belong."


Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Who is taking a knee for this 4 year old?
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2017, 04:21:00 PM »
I think everyone is against police brutality, and their is some messed up things that have happened like shooting unarmed men in the back.  That is never right. 

Yeah, there was a guy that got blown away for walking out of a convenience store with headphones on.  Couldn't hear anything over his music and had no idea a PISSED OFF COP was following him.

Quote
Alot of the shootings can be avoided by following the directions of the police officers.

...the rule is you must comply or die!

Educating people on how to act right around police will do more to prevent shootings than anything else IMO.  You can protest 24/7 if you act in an unpredictable manner around police there is a good chance you gonna get shot.

Chewy, I respect you, but I'm gonna rebut you.  HARD.  You may not like what I'm gonna say.

Police Directives; understandable in several situations.  However, there is a strong neurological reaction that happens in human brains when someone is actively shouting at them.  This reaction creates problems as the more animal part of our mind takes over and rationality makes an exit.  To complicate this situation.  There are mental disorders that can turbo charge said reaction.  Specifically autism - which effects more people in more subtle ways than people realize.  There are also a huge population of people with hearing deficits.  I personally am a data point in both those pools.
My position is; pointing a gun and shouting unintelligble orders at people is ineffective.  Badge or no badge, you're not likely to get the reaction you are expecting.

As for that rule.
Wrong, so wrong.  Fictionally Mythical in how wrong it is.  There are constitutional lawyers pulling their hair out over this.
Police are the first point of contact for a criminal justice system.  A system which set standards such as "innocent until proven guilty" "burden of proof/preponderance of evidence" "due process" and "right to appeal".
None of these laws can hold any salt when police assume power of Judge Jury and Executioner.

As far as educating people on how to act around police.  You've got a good idea.  But perpetuating the idea of "comply or die" is not the way to go about it.  I certainly won't be telling my future children that.

Innocent until proven guilty is the thing.  People usually know if they've committed a crime or not.  It would seem perfectly logical for an innocent person to "resist" being arrested.  Especially since we live in a world where an Arrest Record is equally reflected on background checks just as much as a courtroom conviction.  There are other arrestable offenses which carry life-long penalties even if never convicted.
So the game is already rigged.  And it's a$$-fcuking backwards (pardon moi francais)

When dealing with a cop; particularly one that wants to cuff you.  You need to be smart. 
In a world of unmarked cars and plainclothed officers (hello shoreline biker!) civilians have every right to say "who are you and who do you work for?" - though usually a good cop will introduce themselves at the beginning. 
Don't consent to a damn thing.  If they start asking uncomfortable or incriminating questions you are not obligated to answer.  "Am I being detained" is a good phrase to practice. 
Refuse to do anything without a lawyer/advocate immediately present; this one will piss off a cop - but it has literally kept me from being jailed for mental health crisis.  I SH!T YOU NOT.
You also have every right to view the evidence.  If there is none, reassert your innocence and inform the officer of your right to leave, post haste.

The key is to remember that you are presumably innocent and assert that throughout any interaction with law enforcement.

I guarantee you this.  If a cop ever has his crosshairs on me.  My last words will be "you pull that trigger and you'll be killing your career" - wait for that to go viral.


Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: Who is taking a knee for this 4 year old?
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2017, 04:31:17 PM »
When that nuts o cop looked like he wanted to shoot my ass I made sure I was safe and lived to tell about it.

This young man is doing a good public service.  Some people just don't know how to handle themselves in any situtions and when guns are involved their lack of training is not in their favor.  If you have a gun and some crazy is wrestling you got get it you are going to shoot them plain and simple.

Looks like there has been some training videos made on the topic.  Now, maybe we need to play them instead of the national anthem before the game and end police violence once and for all.



It worked for this guy, it can work for you too.

Steps to avoid getting shot

1. Act right not crazy or threatening
2. Be respectful to the officer
3. Comply with their instructions
4. Go home or to jail alive



Offline Geeto67

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Re: Who is taking a knee for this 4 year old?
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2017, 04:38:39 PM »
Geeto - chewy is just trying to frame the perspective here.

maybe but he's also doing, probably accidentally, what a lot of people do intentionally as part of political propaganda - diminish one cause by pointing out another one that is more horrible and asking why not this instead? It is a weaponized type of logical fallacy that is used often and understood by far less than should be. This is the other side of the coin to false equivalency: the tactic of taking two objectively diverse issues and making them seem the same so as to diminish one of them. 

he may be trying to "frame the perspective" but to me this isn't a square frame, and it isn't protecting the whole picture. It's wonky and does more harm than good.  It's not my intention to "upset" (call it collateral damage ;) ), but it's worth discussing.

I get that twitter is annoying, and in general in our mass media consumption universe public outrage can seem more annoying, but public outrage is still a political commodity, and it is meaningful for those looking to bring attention to an issue. In this case we have a genuine cause, the continued pursuit of equal rights, being brought to public attention by a protest, and we have a lot of discussion around it, including a lot of stuff on twitter, and some of it form very disappointing politicians (who may or may not be orange) - but it all serves a purpose. It shines a light on those who are understanding of the issue and know where their interests lie (like NFL) and others that outright oppose (like NASCAR or MLB).


When it comes to charity cases, I personally feel a good approach is to start with the question "what am I doing about it?" and work from there. Worrying about what others are paying attention to when you are not trying to recruit them to your cause is useless and only causes unnecessary anxiety. You don't like something in this world? do something about it. You want others to do something about it - work for the positive change, not the negative dismissal.

So you just don't care, is that it?  What if it was your kid, would you care then?  There is a difference between grown men and 4 year olds is there not?  The 4 year old is too small and weak to defend themselves, so others have to do it.  I don't get you man.  Thought you were better than this.  I can see your NOT MY PROBLEM bumper sticker firmly attached to your electric car, be sure to have a picture of that 4 years child miner or child solider on there too.   

Get a T-Shrit and wear it with pride.

Proudly attach it to your care.

Better yet get on Twitter, and start a #NOTMYPROBLEM campaign to show the rest of the world what a great guy you are.


You missed my point entirely.

First off I actually have a 5 year old child (a little girl). Do you? I ask not to diminish your opinion but to see if I am talking one father to another because the common ground is different one father to another or not. I am going to assume you do because you seem to care deeply about this issue, and I can tell you I see my child in every other child I see in the world and it breaks my heart on a daily basis when I see evil perpetrated on children. I'm sure this is a feeling you have as well.....

But let's discuss how you "framed this issue". Sure you want to call attention to it, but you chose to do so at the chasitizing of others and in a very unproductive and negative way. Whether you intended to do this or not your message is "this thing happening on twitter over here is not important and stupid so you should pay attention to this other thing over here that's way worse"....and I agree 4 year olds slowly dying in a coal mine is objectively worse. But when you take the position to cast a moral judgement on others whom you don't know and diminish the thing important to them you have lost before you began. It is no longer about how horrible life is for the 4 year old but how horrible twitter is or taking a knee is or the NFL....anything but what your goal was.

My advice to you is stop caring about how you think other people are wasting their time, and start focusing on the common ground you have to get them to care. Worrying about why they are being annoying on twitter is only going to cause you to take on their frustration and get sucked into their thing - and then you'll start to lose faith in humanity. Instead, research it and approach people with information on how to help and options to take action. Relate through positivity. You aren't going to get everyone, people care about different things and everyone has to pick their battles, but you can get those who want to care if you have something to discuss about the issue itself.

If you approached me with this problem and said here are the charities that need resources and here are the charities that need time I'd give you time, here are the charities that need resources I'd give your resources - but when you approach with "look at these dummies wasting their time when this other evil is happening" then you've lost me because it's about you and your frustration and I got plenty of my own I don't need yours.

Be an engine for change, don't add to the volume of noise.

Feel me?

« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 04:40:40 PM by Geeto67 »
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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: Who is taking a knee for this 4 year old?
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2017, 04:44:21 PM »
Chewy, I'm tellin ya, anecdotally, if I had complied with that sheriff when he tried to arrest me (and he was grasping at straws to pin me with some charge) I wouldn't be a free man right now.
I'd be locked in western state hospital (the place where they drug their prisoners with liver rotting poison) with no rights at all.  And for what?  Uncontrollable crying and hating my existence in a manic depressive state?!  That's complete and utter bullsh!t.  Consequentially motivates my participation in the DGR.  But I digress.

Repeatedly refusing to go anywhere without a lawyer/advocate saved me from being labeled a mentally ill "criminal".

So maybe I'm biased in regard to the subject.  But I'm not going to be taken without a proper and legally appropriate fight.