Author Topic: "I want to watch you transfer the title"  (Read 3729 times)

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Offline eigenvector

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"I want to watch you transfer the title"
« on: September 27, 2017, 06:05:55 PM »
"PS: I want to watch you transfer the title the day of sale so make sure you have money to cover the cost. "

What's that all about?  Looking at craigslist ads, this one for a Concours that looks pretty nice actually.

I don't understand the point of this though - does he just sign it, take the money and that's it?  That's how it worked for my Sabre.
Rob
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Offline 754

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Re: "I want to watch you transfer the title"
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2017, 06:10:01 PM »
 Wants it out if his name.
 When I bought my sandcast,  I could not get it into my name fast enough.
 Speaking of , it may still be as it went over the border,?
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 06:12:20 PM by 754 »
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Offline CycleRanger

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Re: "I want to watch you transfer the title"
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2017, 06:18:47 PM »
Some people just like to watch...  ;)
 ::)
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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: "I want to watch you transfer the title"
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2017, 06:46:20 PM »
Sounds like he's sold something that came back to bite him.

He was a bif specific in the matter though.  Assuming whoever buys it will be a cash strapped who-knows-what.

Rude 😑

Offline eigenvector

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Re: "I want to watch you transfer the title"
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2017, 06:50:14 PM »
Probably it, got bit by someone once and has a chip on his shoulder because of it.

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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: "I want to watch you transfer the title"
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2017, 06:56:19 PM »
Funny cause I've been on the other end of that situation before.
Bought an oldsmobile from a retiree who ever did his report of sale.
Got pulled over 3 times on suspicion of auto theft because of it  :o

Offline eigenvector

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Re: "I want to watch you transfer the title"
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2017, 06:57:44 PM »
I guess in that respect, it's a good way to make sure everyone does their part.

Could have been a little less 'harsh' about it in his wording - but again, maybe he's used to dealing with typical craigslist types.
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Offline 754

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Re: "I want to watch you transfer the title"
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2017, 07:31:53 PM »
I think the biggest fear is tgd buyer getting into an accident and disappearing. . Guess who they go after ?
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Offline CycleRanger

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Re: "I want to watch you transfer the title"
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2017, 07:51:23 PM »
I think the biggest fear is the buyer getting into an accident and disappearing. . Guess who they go after ?

They go to the seller who produces a signed, dated copy of a bill of sale that includes the buyers name, address, and DL number.
Then they go visit the buyer. ;)

Seller is ignorant or just plain paranoid or both.
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Offline vfourfreak

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Re: "I want to watch you transfer the title"
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2017, 11:25:03 PM »
The system in France is that a change of ownership form is completed in duplicate at the time of handover of the vehicle, buyer and seller each keeps a copy The title document is crossed through by the seller with a caption stating that the vehicle was sold on whatever Date (and optionally time) and signed by him .
The buyer drives away with his copy of the form and the annotated title document. The seller is obliged to notify his prefecture of the sale, and the buyer must apply to his prefecture (they may be different ones depending on the regions involved) requesting a new title document.
Any disputes are settled with reference to the notes made on the title document.

Up to about 3 years ago the vehicle license number changed at each sale unless the sale was within the same departement. Now a vehicle keeps the same number for life.

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Offline scottly

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Re: "I want to watch you transfer the title"
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2017, 12:01:27 AM »
My ex-bro-in-law once sold a Datsun to one of his surfing buddies, who took his sweet time transferring the title. A couple of years later, Richard was stopped for an unrelated issue, and when the cops ran his info, bench warrants for parking tickets accrued before the buyer transferred the title showed up, and he spent the night in the Grey-bar Hotel. ::)
I don't think the seller is out of line.. 
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Offline Bailgang

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Re: "I want to watch you transfer the title"
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2017, 01:42:08 AM »
I think the biggest fear is the buyer getting into an accident and disappearing. . Guess who they go after ?

They go to the seller who produces a signed, dated copy of a bill of sale that includes the buyers name, address, and DL number.
Then they go visit the buyer. ;)

Seller is ignorant or just plain paranoid or both.

+1
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: "I want to watch you transfer the title"
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2017, 06:11:33 AM »
It could be a few things. In this State you can only sell 4 vehicles per year or you must get a dealers license. Some friends of mine have the person they buy the vehicle from sign the title. When they sell the vehicle to another person they give them that title. At the DMV it looks like the it was a direct sale from those two people, their names do not appear. There are some tax implications also. This seller sounds very savvy and smart to me.
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Offline CycleRanger

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Re: "I want to watch you transfer the title"
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2017, 06:35:20 AM »
It could be a few things. In this State you can only sell 4 vehicles per year or you must get a dealers license. Some friends of mine have the person they buy the vehicle from sign the title. When they sell the vehicle to another person they give them that title. At the DMV it looks like the it was a direct sale from those two people, their names do not appear. There are some tax implications also. This seller sounds very savvy and smart to me.

Well that's a valid observation.
Texas introduced a form a few years ago that must be signed by the seller at the time of the sale to help prevent this sort of activity. Of course there's always people who have no issues with forging signatures and information... ::)
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Offline BigJimG

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Re: "I want to watch you transfer the title"
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2017, 07:09:13 AM »
Not entirely unheard of.  From the Michigan Secretary of State website:

"When selling your vehicle, accompany the purchaser of the vehicle to a secretary of state branch office to assure the title is transferred into your purchaser's name.  If you cannot do this, maintain a record of the sale for not less than 18 months.   A "record of the sale" can be either a photocopy of the reassigned title or a form or document that includes the year, make, vehicle identification number, name, address, driver license number, and signature of the person to whom the vehicle is sold and the purchase price and date of sale of the vehicle. 

Under Michigan law, a seller is not liable for any damages or a violation of law that subsequently results from the use of ownership of the vehicle by the purchaser if the owner maintains proof of sale as noted above."


Penalties for abandoning a vehicle or vessel

Owners who abandon a vehicle or vessel risk fines and penalties.

Michigan law [MCL 257.252a, 81151, or 82161 2014 PA 549] presumes that the last owner of record as kept by the Secretary of State of a vehicle is responsible for abandoning a vehicle unless the person provides a record of sale or transfer. Michigan law (80130f 2014 PA 549) presumes that the last titled owner, if there is no titled owner the last registered owner of a vessel, is responsible for abandoning a vessel unless the person provides a record of the transfer of the vessel to another person. A violation for abandoning a vehicle and not redeeming it before disposition is determined under MCL 257.252g or Section 81151(3) or Section 82161(3) 2014 PA 549, or for abandoning a vessel and not redeeming it before disposition is determined under Section 80130k, will result in a civil infraction and subject the owner to a civil fine of $50 plus costs, state assessments, and other statutory penalties.

To protect yourself, you must do one of the following, when you sell or transfer ownership of a vehicle or vessel:

Accompany the buyer to a Secretary of State branch office to assure that the vehicle's title is transferred.
Maintain a record of the sale for at least 18 months. A record of the sale means either a photocopy of the reassigned vehicle or vessel title, reassigned vessel registration,  or a document that includes the name, address, driver's license number, the purchaser's signature, purchase price and date of sale.
If you fail to maintain proper records of the sale, you are subject to the following penalties if a subsequent owner abandons the vehicle:

A civil infraction with a fine of $15 plus costs, state assessments and other statutory penalties.
Towing and storage fees assessed by the towing agency or custodian of the vehicle or vessel.
Back to top               Search for an abandoned vehicle

Abandoning a vehicle or vessel is considered "littering"

Yes. A person who abandons a motor vehicle or vessel may also be found responsible for littering under the Natural Resources and Environmental Protection Act [MCL 324.8905a(4)]. This is a state civil infraction subject to a civil fine from $500 to $2,500 plus costs, state assessments, and other statutory penalties. The penalty for abandoning a second vehicle or vessel is a civil fine from $1,000 to $5,000 plus costs, state assessments, and other statutory penalties.


TL/DR: The titled owner of record is responsible unless you can prove you sold it with the above requirements...
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Offline flybox1

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Re: "I want to watch you transfer the title"
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2017, 07:20:22 AM »
Eigen. In WA, the seller simply needs to turn in the Report of Sale form (or do it online), which is required withing 5 days of the transaction.

This form TELLS the DMV who he sold it to, and releases his interest in the vehicle/title/ownership to that party.
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Offline innovativems

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Re: "I want to watch you transfer the title"
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2017, 08:31:42 AM »
I sold one that they never transferred and they abandoned it two years later.  DMV tried to come after me for $500!  Had to prove I sold it


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Offline flybox1

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Re: "I want to watch you transfer the title"
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2017, 09:14:01 AM »
I sold one that they never transferred and they abandoned it two years later.  DMV tried to come after me for $500!  Had to prove I sold it


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That would suck.  Hope you still had your docs.  :-\
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Offline innovativems

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Re: "I want to watch you transfer the title"
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2017, 09:55:46 AM »
I sold one that they never transferred and they abandoned it two years later.  DMV tried to come after me for $500!  Had to prove I sold it


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That would suck.  Hope you still had your docs.  :-\
Oh ya.  Thankfully I keep pretty good records


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Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: "I want to watch you transfer the title"
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2017, 10:37:05 AM »
In California, the seller also files a Release of Liability, so that if anything happens during the interim between sale and the new owner taking title, the seller is not liable.
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Offline Geeto67

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Re: "I want to watch you transfer the title"
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2017, 11:12:18 AM »
Decades ago, in the 1980's, my parents inherited my Aunt's 1971 Dodge dart swinger. Burgundy with a black vinyl roof. Despite my pleas for him to keep it for when I got my license, my father sold it to this seemingly nice gentleman who answered the ad in the paper. The guy even had his own license plates to drive the car away. My father took his cash, signed over  the title (which was in dad's name since he drove the car for 3 months before selling it), wrote out a bill of sale, photocopied it, and handed over the keys. never saw the guy again.

2 months later NYPD shows up at our house. Apparently the "nice" gentleman who bought the car never registered it in his name and then used to car to commit several stick up robberies of gas stations around NYC. The car was recovered during a shootout with police, where the driver got away on foot, presumably after being shot. Since the car was last registered to my father the NYPD questioned him for several hours, meaning he had to close his office and reschedule his patients. After they were convinced he didn't know the guy he sold the car to and had nothing to do with the robberies, impound started sending him delinquency notices about storage fees and picking up the car. At one point he and I went down to Flushing airport to see the car and it was a wreck having been hit on every panel, several bullet holes, and dried blood in the interior. This was a car that my Aunt Helen had taken me to the movies in my entire childhood so it was heartbreaking. We didn't want the car back. They revoked my father's license for unpaid citations realated to the car and it was another hassle to prove to the DMV that he sold the car and wasn't the one who racked up the citations and storage fees. 

Anyway, finally the impound notices stopped as the NYPD took possession of the car, and junked it. Then my father started getting calls from a salvage yard who had possession of the car, wanting to pay him to file for a lost title. Again my father wasn't interested, but the guy was insistent, even coming round the house. Apparently the yard had gotten the car and use the vin and trim tag from my Aunt's car on a clean 1971 dart they had in their possession that had neither. I don't know how that ended up but I don't think my parent's did anything to help. 

To this day, my parent's won't sell any vehicle private party. Every car they own either goes to the junkyard, a dealer, or a family member. If it goes to a family member they must transfer title immediately, and my mother has sometimes gone with people to the DMV. One time I bought their suburban and sold it to a close friend before I had a chance to transfer title. They bothered me for a month about proving that he transferred title (he did).

Remember, it's not just the sellers who can pull scams with vehicles - sometimes shady buyers out there can cause you a world of headache. Granted, what happened to my family happened in an age before the internet and computerized systems, and paperwork back then was fast and loose (pre 1971 cars in NY have title and registration as one document called a transferable registration), and tech has made a lot of this harder to pull off, but bad things can happen still.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2017, 11:17:42 AM by Geeto67 »
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Offline CycleRanger

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Re: "I want to watch you transfer the title"
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2017, 02:27:01 PM »
Heh, I have buddy who gave a car to his ex-gf. She drove the car from Texas to Rhode Island.
A few months later my buddy started getting letters from RI about outstanding parking tickets.
RI finally issued a bench warrant for my buddy. 
After about a year and many more letters the ex-gf finally got new plates.
As far as my buddy knows he still can't go to RI... ::)
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Offline Don R

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Re: "I want to watch you transfer the title"
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2017, 08:04:08 PM »
 A friend sold his 69 Camaro race car to start his chassis business, 3x years later he found it and bought it back, after two or three owners. The title is still in his name.
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Offline BomberMann650

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Re: "I want to watch you transfer the title"
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2017, 08:19:06 AM »
Heh, I have buddy who gave a car to his ex-gf. She drove the car from Texas to Rhode Island.
A few months later my buddy started getting letters from RI about outstanding parking tickets.
RI finally issued a bench warrant for my buddy. 
After about a year and many more letters the ex-gf finally got new plates.
As far as my buddy knows he still can't go to RI... ::)

Of all the reasons to throw a person in jail.  Sex and Parking Tickets are the lowest of lows.  Waste of taxpayer money.

Offline Geeto67

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Re: "I want to watch you transfer the title"
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2017, 07:35:48 AM »
Heh, I have buddy who gave a car to his ex-gf. She drove the car from Texas to Rhode Island.
A few months later my buddy started getting letters from RI about outstanding parking tickets.
RI finally issued a bench warrant for my buddy. 
After about a year and many more letters the ex-gf finally got new plates.
As far as my buddy knows he still can't go to RI... ::)

Of all the reasons to throw a person in jail.  Sex and Parking Tickets are the lowest of lows.  Waste of taxpayer money.

Not to get into semantics but the purpose of a bench warrant in these cases is to force a person to appear on court and pay the fines. how else to you enforce this otherwise? By the way, if you pay the fines the warrant goes away.

I happen to agree that it's a terrible thing to to put someone in jail for, but it's how the system works.
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