Topic: CB200 won't run

[Scott S]

 Working on a '73 CB200 for a friend. This was a running, riding bike until about a month ago. She called me just as I got home from a local bike night and said she broke down. The bike kept cutting off on her. She was able to limp it home and I went a few days later to get the bike.

 Got it to my house and checked the plugs and they were good....not fouled. She had JUST installed two new NGK D8EA plugs in an attempt to get it running again. I pulled the sediment bowl on the petcock and the float bowl on the LH carb. Both had clean gas and no trash in them. I checked fuel flow through the petcock and the float valve. Put it all back together and put the bike on the charger (battery was working...turning the bike over, anyway). The next day, I noticed the fuel level was a little low and that the petcock was new, so I put it on reserve and the bike started. The trip meter showed 71 miles. "Ah-ha! Aftermarket petcock and high reserve pipe! She was just out of gas!".

 Told her to order new points, condenser, and spark plug caps and we'd install them when she came to get the bike. Did that last night, minus the points because the old ones look brand new, and tried to start the bike.
 No Go.
 It just cranks and cranks and cranks with the occasional cough like it WANTS to start, but it won't.

 *We changed the condenser, since a bad condenser can sometimes fail when hot, so I wanted to eliminate that.
 *Checked the plugs again. Gave them a quick clean but they didn't really need it.
 *Trimmed back spark plug wires and installed new NGK caps.
 *Checked the sediment bowl and fuel flow through petcock again.
 *Charged battery overnight, but it turned the bike over fine for 15-20 minutes while we tried last night.
 *Removed one of the air cleaners. It doesn't look bad and is OEM. When cranking with the air cleaner off, I can see fuel moving through the carb. No change when trying to start with that one filter off.
 *Dressed the points. We're getting spark at the points and at both plugs.
 *Did the finger over the spark plug hole test and it has compression.
 
 At this point, I'm stumped. We seem to have fuel, air, compression and spark. It just won't run. Tried kicking it. Tried bump starting it.
 My next move is to check valve adjustment, timing and actually setting the points rather than just cleaning them. I can't imagine that the timing or valve adjustments are off that bad. I mean, I have compression, and when I got the bike running it ran great. No noises or hesitations or flat spots.
 What the heck do I check next?

[ekpent]

 Were the spark plugs really gassy after all that cranking? Choke circuit working correctly not staying on full time ??  Is it a strong spark ?  Ohhh -  the fun of troubleshooting 

[Scott S]

 Plugs weren't too gassy. Especially considering how much we tried to crank it. Choke is the old school manual slide and it moves freely.
 I'd like to see a little stronger spark at the plugs, but there's enough there that it should run. Especially since we had been trying and trying for nearly half an hour.
 Charged the bike overnight and tried again this morning....same thing. Just turns and turns and no start.

[Fezzler]

You've forgotten more than I'll ever know, but my SWAG says you are on to something when you mention the ignition / points / timing.

[CycleRanger]

It does sound electrical. Have you tested the coil with a multimeter?
Also, any chance it jumped the timing chain?

[Scott S]

 I have not tested the coil with a meter, but I'm getting spark. I suppose it could have jumped timing, but I don'y know how or why.

 I need to find a .PDF of the manual for it. Everything I have is for the larger twins. Would valve adjustment procedure be the same as for a 350?
  Would this timing procedure work on the 200 as well?

[b52bombardier1]

I have not tested the coil with a meter, but I'm getting spark. I suppose it could have jumped timing, but I don'y know how or why.

 I need to find a .PDF of the manual for it. Everything I have is for the larger twins. Would valve adjustment procedure be the same as for a 350?
  Would this timing procedure work on the 200 as well?

Put a test light on the flat points spring and see if it has jumped timing. You will most likely need to get a look at the embossed "F" and "T" marks on the flywheel to see if it is still close on timing.

I'm not familiar with this bike but this will get you started. Hopefully it's only a loose points plate that has messed up your ignition timing and not a loose, worn out timing chain.

Rick

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[ekpent]

  I found an under the seat owners manual here with all the basic tune-up stuff  but it will not let me post that specifically.It is in here though and maybe more if you dig around --  http://www.classiccycles.org/1852/1873.html

[Scott S]

 I found an online manual and printed out the instructions. And then my friend told me she has a manual at home! Doh!

 The points plate is snug, not loose. I'm working through Wednesday and then out of town until Monday. I'll get back on it next week.

[MoMo]

Scott

good compression, spark at the right time and fuel in the correct mixture /ratio and bike should run.

Finger test, but what is actual compression?  Valve adjustment I think is .002 and .003 at TDC

Do the points open at the 'F' mark?

Are all the jets clean?

[CBJoe]

I have not tested the coil with a meter, but I'm getting spark. I suppose it could have jumped timing, but I don'y know how or why.

 I need to find a .PDF of the manual for it. Everything I have is for the larger twins. Would valve adjustment procedure be the same as for a 350?
  Would this timing procedure work on the 200 as well?

I have a Manual if you want it...PM me your email and i'll send it.

[tbpmusic]

The same timing procedure for all of them, really - little bulb from point to ground, turn rotor till points open and bulb comes on.
CB200 is a 360 twin, single coil "wasted spark" ignition - meaning the plugs fire on top of every upstroke, whether it's compression stroke or exhaust.

Also very easy to put the carb slides in backwards on that bike (don't ask how I know that) - definitely won't run like that.
I've also had problems with sticking spark advancers on CB200 - sometimes they stick open, sometimes closed. I chased my tail a long time with that one..........

[Scott S]

 I can pretty much rule out the carb slides, as the bike was running until recently.
 I'll be able to get back on it soon. I plan on adjusting the valves and checking the timing. And doing a compression test.

[strynboen]

i once had a coil burn the plug vire internaly...i faund aut..vhen i pulled in it..and "plop"..the vire just pop"ed aut..and burned vire vas in the daylight

so tru to put the multimeter on the plug vire..and on one on suply and see if yoy gets some 2000 ohm..or araund that

[Scott S]

 * Adjusted the valves today. Found three very loose and one exhaust tight. All are at .002 now.

 * Adjusted point gap.

 * Checked timing and set it with a light. It seemed to be off. The online Honda manual just says line up the F mark and make the light come on. Her aftermarket manual says to do that and then go one full revolution and set it for the other cylinder. We did this twice and it will NOT align to the mark on both cylinders. You get one or the other. Tried to split the difference, but either way it's off.

 * Adjusted cam chain.

 * Checked petcock operation, fuel flow, floats, etc., umpteen times.

 * Checked for spark at points and plugs. Getting it, but it's weak at the plugs. BUT....we've been cranking this thing to death.

 * Pulled carbs. Clean as a whistle. Checked and set floats to 22mm.

  The damn thing just won't run. With or without the air filters on. I can see fuel in the carb throats, and I get fuel on my hand when I choke the throat. But pull a plug and it's dry as hell.
 I'm truly stumped at this point.

[Scott S]

Oh, yeah....and checked compression. About 130 PSI cold in both cylinders.

[b52bombardier1]

Oh, yeah....and checked compression. About 130 PSI cold in both cylinders.

How about starting fluid? I'm never one to recommend this stuff as a crutch to always get a bike to run but it is a good diagnostic tool.

+1 to checking the spark advancer. If it is like many Honda bikes of that era, somebody could have assembled it 180 degrees out of phase. Great spark . . . wrong time during the combustion cycle. I said way, way too many bad words and drank too much beer the day I did that to myself. =8-)

I'd also like a look at the timing marks inside to see if it jumped timing but that will take some deeper digging.

Rick

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[b52bombardier1]

Oh, yeah....and checked compression. About 130 PSI cold in both cylinders.

How about starting fluid? I'm never one to recommend this stuff as a crutch to always get a bike to run but it is a good diagnostic tool.

+1 to checking the spark advancer. If it is like many Honda bikes of that era, somebody could have assembled it 180 degrees out of phase. Great spark . . . wrong time during the combustion cycle. I said way, way too many bad words and drank too much beer the day I did that to myself. =8-)

I'd also like a look at the timing marks inside to see if it jumped timing but that will take some deeper digging.

Rick

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[Scott S]

 I did try starting fluid. Not even a cough.

 I would agree with the advancer advise IF it had been apart recently. The bike ran fine until one day it just didn't.

 I'm also wondering about the jumped timing. What's involved in checking the internal marks?

 I'm now wondering about a weak battery and/or coils, but that wouldn't explain why the plugs are dry, would it?
 Spark at the plugs is weak, but there. And we're cranking the snot out of it trying to get it to run.
 I have it back on the charger now.

[CycleRanger]

Did you find a manual for this bike?
I have an old Clymer twins manual that might have info in the rebuild section about setting timing, I'll have to look.

[Scott S]

 She brought her manual and I found one online the other day. I'll have to look at the rebuild section about cam timing.
 I'm stumped. It ought to run, IMO.

[MoMo]

Scott, I am understanding that the bike ran fine, nothing was done to it and it will not now start?......Larry

[strynboen]

+1 on the sentifugal- advancer ..it can be reversed..sparkplug posision is not a problem on this 1 coil engines..as on the 450 and 500...have you tryed to heat the sparkplugs..to dry them..and blov kompresed air in the engine ..to dry it aut..a lot of fuel  have been pumpet inn..can be a problem vith a veakened ignision system

[Scott S]

Scott, I am understanding that the bike ran fine, nothing was done to it and it will not now start?......Larry

 That is correct. It died on her near her house. Restarted a few times. She was able to limp it home that night (with it dying a few more times).
 When it got here, I checked the plugs (clean), checked for fuel flow at the petcock and float valves (good) and put it on reserve and it ran. And ran fine.
 I parked it and told her to order new plug caps and condenser, just in case. We installed those (and I adjusted her brakes, chain, etc....some non-engine related stuff). Added a little gas, went to start it and it hasn't ran since.

[Scott S]

+1 on the sentifugal- advancer ..it can be reversed..sparkplug posision is not a problem on this 1 coil engines..as on the 450 and 500...have you tryed to heat the sparkplugs..to dry them..and blov kompresed air in the engine ..to dry it aut..a lot of fuel  have been pumpet inn..can be a problem vith a veakened ignision system

 Yes, plugs are good, clean and dry.

 I checked the advancer last night. It HAS NOT been removed by me, nor since the bike started acting up. The weights move freely, springs are good, pin has not sheared.
 
 Checked secondary voltage on the coil and got 24.9K ohms. The manual says "about 15,000 ohms", and with the two 5K plug caps, that's right on the money. I'll have to remove the tank to check primary resistance.