Author Topic: Bad news from Las Vegas  (Read 11472 times)

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Offline eigenvector

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Re: Bad news from Las Vegas
« Reply #75 on: October 04, 2017, 07:34:04 PM »
I have no desire to kill these people, even if they are perpetrating evil.

The reality, in my experience, is that people like this are committing these crimes because they believe they have nothing else to turn to.  They are frustrated with the world around them, far beyond what a rational person would be, and they simply have nowhere to turn.  This is why I believe very strongly that those who wish to do away with firearms, should start by addressing why people get to this point in the first place.
Suicide is by far the biggest cause of gun death in this country - provide them with a solution, not just Prozac, but an actual SOLUTION and you will have caused a tremendous good in this world and simultaneously solved the gun rights debate.  All of this without having to revoke my rights.

The firearm genie is out of the bottle and its not going back in - banning them won't solve anything at this point.
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Offline Gene

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Re: Bad news from Las Vegas
« Reply #76 on: October 04, 2017, 08:21:06 PM »
But here is an article by the Atlantic that I found very interesting.
I myself am very pro-2nd Amendment, having been a competitive rifle shooter.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/whats-the-solution-to-gun-violence/462537/
I wish I knew how to identify them in advance as I’d happily use my personal firearms to put a bullet in their mangled brain  >:(

While I understand, it is this kind of thinking that leads to a lot of innocent people being targeted. I don't remember who said it - and yes, I think it does apply - I'd rather see 12 guilty men go free than one innocent person go to prison. That to me sums up the legal system in our country. As it should be.

When we try to "identify" those that may be trouble and lock 'em up, that's not what we as a Country stand for. So I see the point of law-abiding Americans having the right to bear arms without intrusion, so long as those arms aren't used to commit a crime - I get it. But, currently we have a system that "identifies" people more or less based on their race, religion, social or economic status. That's why this guy didn't pop up on the radar.

While it's true the most desperate of a culture may also be the most likely to turn to crime to get by, it's still wrong to profile. And it doesn't really work. I'm not going on a rant here, I have an actual point . . . somewhere . . .

Cal, you had asked earlier how could we have prevented this? The guy had money. He bought his weapons legally and with a background check etc. I would first propose that we make it illegal to legally purchase the items that make a semi-automatic fully automatic. That's simple. Would it stop people from getting the gear? No. But it makes it harder. Secondly I would propose that an individual OR FAMILY can only own X amount of semi-automatic firearms.

Would this solve it? Nope. But it would be a start. Hell, I'm a pretty damn good shot with a pistol or a rifle. And I don't own a firearm simply because I'm rational enough to realize that I might use it in the wrong instance and hurt or kill someone who didn't deserve it, even though I've been trained in the use of firearms since I was a kid.

I don't mean any disrespect to anyone who has contributed to this conversation, or anyone who owns firearms, it's one that is important. It seems a shame these only come up when there is a tragedy though. I hope those that had friends or family at the festival are OK. I know my friends were - cuz they blew it off (crazy gambling time!) but I hope yours made it home safe. To those that didn't - it's a g***amned shame and I hope your families can get past it.

Special thanks to those that know ground-work medic service. I think they saved a lot of folks.

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Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: Bad news from Las Vegas
« Reply #77 on: October 05, 2017, 05:22:55 AM »
When the crap comes down, a few people will always help and do what they can do ..without hesitation..
 And others just lose their freaking heads..I mean just sometimes cant even help themselves.

I was sure grateful that there were ex medics and people used to serious injuries around when I almost lost my leg in Sturgis..

That's why, I believe, most people that stay around and help are either police/fire/military. We are just more conditioned to seeing horrible stuff so maybe that's why our heads are more clear. But many civilians did help out by piling people in their vehicles and dropping off at hospitals.

I can't even imagine...

Offline jgger

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Re: Bad news from Las Vegas
« Reply #78 on: October 05, 2017, 06:09:14 AM »
Well put calj.!
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Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: Bad news from Las Vegas
« Reply #79 on: October 05, 2017, 06:28:04 AM »
Street sweepers with every driver's license is the answer. When you pass the test they hand it over to you.
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Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Bad news from Las Vegas
« Reply #80 on: October 05, 2017, 06:59:39 AM »
The thing about his dad, if you buy into that or make the connection, scares me. Ok, his dad was a psychopath and I presume he was too, so now should we investigate his brother? How about his sister over there in Terry country? How about their kids? Maybe cousins if he has them? Where does that end?


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Offline edwardmorris

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Re: Bad news from Las Vegas
« Reply #81 on: October 05, 2017, 11:42:51 AM »
At this point it looks to be the worse mass killing in American history  :'(

Well, just modern history according to http://www.theroot.com/this-is-only-the-deadliest-shooting-in-u-s-history-bec-1819112938

Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: Bad news from Las Vegas
« Reply #82 on: October 05, 2017, 01:11:17 PM »
Yikes!

Don't forget the Mountain Meadows Massacre where Moremans killed more than 120 settlers ho were just passing by!
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Bad news from Las Vegas
« Reply #83 on: October 05, 2017, 03:29:57 PM »
At this point it looks to be the worse mass killing in American history  :'(

Well, just modern history according to http://www.theroot.com/this-is-only-the-deadliest-shooting-in-u-s-history-bec-1819112938

They blocked me because I have an ad blocker.  F theroot and their spyware.

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Offline edwardmorris

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Re: Bad news from Las Vegas
« Reply #84 on: October 05, 2017, 04:04:32 PM »
At this point it looks to be the worse mass killing in American history  :'(

Well, just modern history according to http://www.theroot.com/this-is-only-the-deadliest-shooting-in-u-s-history-bec-1819112938

They blocked me because I have an ad blocker.  F theroot and their spyware.
Just X out of the popup, they don't enforce it.

Offline Lostboy Steve

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Re: Bad news from Las Vegas
« Reply #85 on: October 06, 2017, 03:11:03 AM »
At this point it looks to be the worse mass killing in American history  :'(

Well, just modern history according to http://www.theroot.com/this-is-only-the-deadliest-shooting-in-u-s-history-bec-1819112938
It's a conspiracy against blacks, I knew it.


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Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: Bad news from Las Vegas
« Reply #86 on: October 06, 2017, 06:43:23 AM »
At this point it looks to be the worse mass killing in American history  :'(

Well, just modern history according to http://www.theroot.com/this-is-only-the-deadliest-shooting-in-u-s-history-bec-1819112938
It's a conspiracy against blacks, I knew it.


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I am taking an internet knee in protest.  8)
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Offline carnivorous chicken

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Re: Bad news from Las Vegas
« Reply #87 on: October 06, 2017, 07:40:20 AM »

It's a conspiracy against blacks, I knew it.


This really degenerated quickly.

Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: Bad news from Las Vegas
« Reply #88 on: October 06, 2017, 06:41:27 PM »
I have no desire to kill these people, even if they are perpetrating evil.

The reality, in my experience, is that people like this are committing these crimes because they believe they have nothing else to turn to.  They are frustrated with the world around them, far beyond what a rational person would be, and they simply have nowhere to turn.  This is why I believe very strongly that those who wish to do away with firearms, should start by addressing why people get to this point in the first place.
Suicide is by far the biggest cause of gun death in this country - provide them with a solution, not just Prozac, but an actual SOLUTION and you will have caused a tremendous good in this world and simultaneously solved the gun rights debate.  All of this without having to revoke my rights.

The firearm genie is out of the bottle and its not going back in - banning them won't solve anything at this point.

My mother is a psyc nurse, and says they have been closing down the mental hospitals for a long time and kicking people out on the streets.  Started in the 1990s.  Not a new problem and not saying it is the reason this happened, but could be a contributing factor.

There are some people who know full well what they are doing and just hate other people ie. Hitler.  Nobody wants to think about it, but some people just got something evil inside of them. 

Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: Bad news from Las Vegas
« Reply #89 on: October 06, 2017, 08:02:38 PM »
There are some people who know full well what they are doing and just hate other people ie. Hitler.  Nobody wants to think about it, but some people just got something evil inside of them.
The only “upside”of tragedies like this; is its an opportunity to see the greatness in humanity from all those who risked everything to help complete strangers. We can argue all we want about what’s wrong in this country, or anyplace else, but witness the good in man whenever, wherever catastrophes occur. It surely is a clear sign that no matter our problems, there’s more good than evil in the world.

I agree with you Cal and choose to see the good in life.  We need to create alt news that focuses more heavily on the heroes than the villains.  Our current system rewards bad behavior with media glory, and that needs to change.

Your right alot of people stepped up to help out.  I can't imagine the scene at Vegas.  With that many people being injured, lots of people helped out putting the wounded into their cars and giving them rides to the hospital.

One guy did something terrible, but hundreds more stepped up to make a difference.  That needs to be played on a continuous loop, not the shooter.

Offline jgger

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Re: Bad news from Las Vegas
« Reply #90 on: October 06, 2017, 08:26:27 PM »
I heard on the radio that there was a young Marine that stole a truck. After things cleared up a little he went off and found a pick up with the keys in it. Took it and started loading wounded and running them to the hospital, made several trips too. After it was over, like the next day or so the owner found out and the truck was missing the keys. He put out the word that all he wanted was his keys back and was glad his truck came in handy. They met up and the Marine gave him back his keys. I thought that was a cool story.
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Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: Bad news from Las Vegas
« Reply #91 on: October 06, 2017, 08:50:58 PM »
I have no desire to kill these people, even if they are perpetrating evil.

The reality, in my experience, is that people like this are committing these crimes because they believe they have nothing else to turn to.  They are frustrated with the world around them, far beyond what a rational person would be, and they simply have nowhere to turn.  This is why I believe very strongly that those who wish to do away with firearms, should start by addressing why people get to this point in the first place.
Suicide is by far the biggest cause of gun death in this country - provide them with a solution, not just Prozac, but an actual SOLUTION and you will have caused a tremendous good in this world and simultaneously solved the gun rights debate.  All of this without having to revoke my rights.

The firearm genie is out of the bottle and its not going back in - banning them won't solve anything at this point.

My mother is a psyc nurse, and says they have been closing down the mental hospitals for a long time and kicking people out on the streets.  Started in the 1990s.  Not a new problem and not saying it is the reason this happened, but could be a contributing factor.

There are some people who know full well what they are doing and just hate other people ie. Hitler.  Nobody wants to think about it, but some people just got something evil inside of them.

Nah, that started in the 80's in Raygun's administration. Y'know, bootstraps for the mentally incompetent and insane and all.
"Well, Mr. Carpetbagger. We got somethin' in this territory called the Missouri boat ride."   Josey Wales

"It's Baltimore, gentlemen. The gods will not save you." Ervin Burrell

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Offline DickL

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Re: Bad news from Las Vegas
« Reply #92 on: October 07, 2017, 03:37:35 AM »
The shooting in Las Vegas is a direct result of the move away from God. Do  you think that if this  whacko  attended church, believed in God, followed the commandents and feared Hell  would have done this?
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Offline demon78

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Re: Bad news from Las Vegas
« Reply #93 on: October 07, 2017, 05:15:08 AM »
Horse #$%*, DickL the only people I would want to damage are proselytizing christian's that want to use a tragedy to push an questionable agenda.
Bill the demon.

Offline DickL

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Re: Bad news from Las Vegas
« Reply #94 on: October 07, 2017, 08:34:13 AM »
Bill,
With all due respect, all people need a value system. Im not what,anyone would call a,bible thumper. I dont know any chapters or verses and cant quote anyting. I was as raised to believe that if you do the crime then you pay the time. If you beieve in an after life then that helps to keep you on the straight and narrow. It reinforces our conscience.

I dont care if you are agnostic its your choice. The western worlds laws ARE based on Judeo Christian principles. The thought of hell, or jail or my conscience,works for me.  I think you must have misunderstood my comment.
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Offline 754

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Re: Bad news from Las Vegas
« Reply #95 on: October 07, 2017, 08:49:03 AM »
We don't misunderstand what you thought, it just does not always work that way.
Perhaps he thought they were listening to devil music, and needed to be eliminated.
Like the wacko that killed three women in an hour because they were sinners. .. so that made him not guilty of murder.. he said.
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Offline eigenvector

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Re: Bad news from Las Vegas
« Reply #96 on: October 07, 2017, 10:09:11 AM »
I have no desire to kill these people, even if they are perpetrating evil.

The reality, in my experience, is that people like this are committing these crimes because they believe they have nothing else to turn to.  They are frustrated with the world around them, far beyond what a rational person would be, and they simply have nowhere to turn.  This is why I believe very strongly that those who wish to do away with firearms, should start by addressing why people get to this point in the first place.
Suicide is by far the biggest cause of gun death in this country - provide them with a solution, not just Prozac, but an actual SOLUTION and you will have caused a tremendous good in this world and simultaneously solved the gun rights debate.  All of this without having to revoke my rights.

The firearm genie is out of the bottle and its not going back in - banning them won't solve anything at this point.

My mother is a psyc nurse, and says they have been closing down the mental hospitals for a long time and kicking people out on the streets.  Started in the 1990s.  Not a new problem and not saying it is the reason this happened, but could be a contributing factor.

There are some people who know full well what they are doing and just hate other people ie. Hitler.  Nobody wants to think about it, but some people just got something evil inside of them.


Nah, that started in the 80's in Raygun's administration. Y'know, bootstraps for the mentally incompetent and insane and all.

You should read more than the DNC talking points on that subject.
It hardly began in the 80's, and it most certainly didn't originate from the politicians.
Rob
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1979 CB750K Limited Edition
1977 CB550K
1984 CB700SC Nighthawk
1983 VF750S Sabre

Offline Gene

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Re: Bad news from Las Vegas
« Reply #97 on: October 07, 2017, 10:36:14 AM »
I have no desire to kill these people, even if they are perpetrating evil.

The reality, in my experience, is that people like this are committing these crimes because they believe they have nothing else to turn to.  They are frustrated with the world around them, far beyond what a rational person would be, and they simply have nowhere to turn.  This is why I believe very strongly that those who wish to do away with firearms, should start by addressing why people get to this point in the first place.
Suicide is by far the biggest cause of gun death in this country - provide them with a solution, not just Prozac, but an actual SOLUTION and you will have caused a tremendous good in this world and simultaneously solved the gun rights debate.  All of this without having to revoke my rights.

The firearm genie is out of the bottle and its not going back in - banning them won't solve anything at this point.

My mother is a psyc nurse, and says they have been closing down the mental hospitals for a long time and kicking people out on the streets.  Started in the 1990s.  Not a new problem and not saying it is the reason this happened, but could be a contributing factor.

There are some people who know full well what they are doing and just hate other people ie. Hitler.  Nobody wants to think about it, but some people just got something evil inside of them.


Nah, that started in the 80's in Raygun's administration. Y'know, bootstraps for the mentally incompetent and insane and all.

You should read more than the DNC talking points on that subject.
It hardly began in the 80's, and it most certainly didn't originate from the politicians.

I agree that there is a lot more to this, But Reagan - when he was Gov of CA - did close shop on a ton of mental health facilities.
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Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: Bad news from Las Vegas
« Reply #98 on: October 07, 2017, 11:34:25 AM »
did close shop on a ton of mental health facilities.

Some states are even discharging mental patients and putting them on a bus to another state.
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Offline Gene

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Re: Bad news from Las Vegas
« Reply #99 on: October 07, 2017, 12:04:48 PM »
I'm out. for no other reason than we've lost sight here. Also, this is big fight and not worth it on this forum. Take it to Facebook, guys.

I won't say which side I'm on.
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