Topic: Rear drive flange

[bonkey88]

When reinstalling the rear ring retainer on a cb550, does it snug up against the rear drive flange?

Mine is tight against the bearing (I used Prussian blue to verify), however there is less than a finger nail gap between the ring retainer and the drive flange. 

My thought was that this gap was required so the flange could rotate forward and backward against the rubbers inside. 

I have read all over and cannot find or decipher the correct answer from previous threads.

[bonkey88]

Anyone?


I ask because once the rear wheel was Installed, the drive flange had some concerning side to side movement. I read about this issue being caused by a worn out rear drive flange so I took apart the rear wheel to inspect.


It appears the drive flange is not significantly worn nor is the spout it turns on.  I am missing the #21 o ring that sits on the hub in the ring below the flange.  I thought this may stop the rocking so I ordered it.  However, in the mean time, I put some vacuum grease on the inside of the drive flange and on the spout on which it turns and reassembled.  The grease created suction and stopped the side to side rocking movement that existed in the flange. The bearing retainer still leaves a finger nail room once tightened.


So did the grease fix the problem or does the bearing retainer we need to be tightened against the flange to stop it or will the o ring help the rocking or none of the above?

[calj737]

Did you re-stake the retainer? If I’m reading your post correctly, then it needs that or some LocTite (and the O-ring) for a proper installation.

[bonkey88]

I did not restate but I k ow about restating.

I am trying to determine whether or not the bottom side of the retainer (mine looks like a mushroom with four holes), once fully tightened, should it sit flush on top of the drive flange (aka sprocket carrier).  Should there be any space? 

The order of parts is the drive flange (which holds the sprocket) then the retainer.  The top hat part of the retainer sits on top of the drive flange so the flange cannot be removed without removing the retainer .  Should there be a space between the flange and retainer?

[calj737]

Mine are negligible. But they also have the O-ring. There is no lateral movement on any of mine.

[bonkey88]

Thanks CalJ.  By negligible do u mean the gap between the drive flange and retainer is negligible?  I assume if the bearing retainer was super tight against the drive flange, the flange would not be able to rock to absorb the pull from the sprocket.  Hence the small space. 

[calj737]

Thats what I mean.

[bonkey88]

Ok.  Got it.  Thanks!

[dave500]

the drive rubbers get a little compressed,you can buy new ones,i just take an old piece of serpentine belt and lay them on top like this with the grooves downwards,tighten the ring nut down,clean those very fine threads well,i oil the threads so they don't rust next time,i pull it all off whenever the rear tyre is replaced,i only stake them lightly.

[Deltarider]

Did you re-stake the retainer? If I’m reading your post correctly, then it needs that or some LocTite (and the O-ring) for a proper installation.

I'd not restake that retainer. I used Loctite and wonder if even that was necessary. I mean, not much chance it will loosen it self, seen the reverse thread.

[bonkey88]

Dave - read about your serpentine method in another post.  Appreciate the picture - helps the explanation.  My question that I cannot seem to find an answer to is ....is the ring retainer, once tightened, intended to be tight against the drive flange (as opposed to leaving a small space)?  If I use the serpentine, the retainer will definitely be tight against the drive flange but won't this limit the ability of the flange to rock forward and backward against those rubbers? 

I did not restake the first time around.  When I took the wheel apart, the retainer was still very tight.  I will probably use a dab of blue Loctite once everything is the way it needs to be.

[dave500]

it should be tight against the flange bonkey,you shouldn't have a great deal of back and forth rocking,the flange should be a firm press hand fit into those rubbers,if it falls in easy they need to be replaced.

[bonkey88]

Ok.  Thanks Dave.

[Deltarider]

Bonkey, the CB500/550 rearhub/sprocket carrier is a miserable design and whilst you're at it, I'd like to present you two links to threads on the UK site that are associated with it. I think you should read them to possibly avoid future problems.
http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,8422.0.html (second half)
http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php?topic=14231.0

[754]

Did you re-stake the retainer? If I’m reading your post correctly, then it needs that or some LocTite (and the O-ring) for a proper installation.

I'd not restake that retainer. I used Loctite and wonder if even that was necessary. I mean, not much chance it will loosen it self, seen the reverse thread.

I agree ,many hubs or wheels dont use retainers.

[dave500]

not as bad as the early Yamaha design with a circlip holding it.

[robvangulik]

not as bad as the early Yamaha design with a circlip holding it.

Like the cb350/400 have?
Easy to work on and no problems at all in use!

[bonkey88]

Deltarider - thanks for the links.  Makes sense.  I used the expensive vaccum grease to lube the boss and the inside of the carrier.  Figured it was would not run away like most other greases.  Once I used this, the little side to side play in the carrier ceased and when I put the carrier over the boss, it creates suction because of the grease. So I am hoping that is an indication that the parts are not too worn out in there. 

I also ordered the #21 O-ring.  Some say it just keeps brake dust out of the drive side of the hub.  However, my flange is a little worn where that O-ring should be.  I imagine the o-ring also provides some (probably very little) stabilization to the drive flange.

Lastly, from Dave's comments, looks like I need new rubbers.  I am going to use the serpentine method (I may buy similar rubber in sheets and cut out a shape to match the dimensions of the big rubbers exactly) for now given the bike needs to go back together so I can ride it to winter storage.  Since I have already spent gobs on building the remainder of the bike, I will probably just buy new cushes and install over the winter.

If it continues to experience side to side play after all the new parts, I know a good machinist who will be able to come up with a solution.  However, I imagine it will not be cheap! 

[Deltarider]

I have yet to meet someone who had to replace those rubbers. Some 10-15 years ago you could buy them deadcheap (NOS) 'cause nobody ever needed them.
Here's a warning: never ever use a steamcleaner! In my years of ignorance I did it once: bike wouldn't start anymore (ignition soaked), not that much later I had to replace the drivechain followed by the rearwheel bearings and then I ran into wear inside the sprocket carrier. Lesson learned. Better preserve your bike a bit greasy. When your bike is greasy, it's like it smiles at you  .

[bonkey88]

I installed the #21 o-ring and I could tell that the drive flange had a tighter fit when putting it back together. 

I also bought 1/8th inch gasket rubber and traced the bigger rubber cushes.  I cut those pieces out and placed them on top of the larger rubber cushes. Now I have no gap between the ring retainer and drive flange. 

There is now no place in the rear drive flange.  Thanks all for your help and suggestions.