Topic: CB400 Four resto/mod----done and on the road!!

[Flyin900]

Guidelines for wear are in the factory service manual under the specifications section around page 100 or so in there. You can download the FSM manual from this forum.
Mine had about the same mileage as yours and the tensioner was worn below spec, while the guide part was still within spec yet 40 + year old rubber. I replaced the cam chain and both the guide and tensioner arms. I had the motor totally torn down with the cases being split, so I was able to check the crank and con rod bearings and U shaped tensioner arm too.

[spuds]

Will for sure check the tensioner/guide for wear---thanks for that suggestion.

Gitano----I think I saw in your thread that you're looking for a tach (or speedo?) base plate or something?   Shoot me a picture of what you need - I have all my OEM gauge stuff that I'll likely not reuse---I can see if I have what you need.

In other news - the wee bike now sports some rebuilt and upgraded aluminum bodied Koni 76F's.   These have been modified with Ikon "dial-a-ride" adjustable damping internals.   Woot!

[Gitano]

Many thanks, Flyin', for pointing out the specs in the manual. I'll take a look at that.

Spuds, thank you for letting me know of parts availability. I just recently sourced a gauge base, so if it really is in good condition, I am good. Otherwise, I will reach out.

Many thanks!


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[b1jackson]

Hey Spuds. Back tracking in the thread to your seat shaving, did a floppy 60 grit end up being your go to to shave that seat down?  I'm kinda at that stage right now with one I'm experimenting with and have had moderate luck with a belt sander. 

Always looking for something a little better.

[spuds]

For sure Gitano, let me know.

B1:  yup....probably not the most glamorous or technically proper way to do it, but a 60 grit flap disc on the angle grinder to get rid of the big chunks, then 80 grit on a block for the finer shaping.    Watch the changing 'grain' in in the foam with that grinder...it will bite too hard when it finds it.   I was really lucky to not have it bite too much!!

In other news got some new shoes on the rear, and got that stubborn exhaust all down to it's major component parts.   Man---can you spell "stuck together real good!?!?!?!?".







Picked up some extra header pipes...they're in a little better shape I think than mine.  There's some work to be done on the headers that are permanently attached to the collector...Will post up some pics here of the areas that I would like to bring back to prior glory---to get some input on what product/tools might be the best bets.

Also know pretty much for sure that I won't use that end can.   Hoping to find something that's just a bit shorter.   Kinda liking the "reverse cone" look.

[spuds]

Well, figured I'd stood around staring at the pistons, gaskets, cylinder block etc long enough---time to get this motor's top end buttoned back up.   I *know* that a complete engine teardown was probably the right thing to do, but....

Got the cylinders back on so far.   







Nothing here that most you folk haven't seen before, but it's all the small little victories that combine to a sense of progress right?

[jakec]

There is a guy near me selling a 400f in boxes. The thing is that the motor is rebuilt and painted black. Headers are black. Frame is painted and naked. Tank and covers are naked.

However everything else is pretty untouched, meaning the boxes and boxes, and boxes of parts are all in worse shape, like off of a daily rider quality bike, with chipper paint, little surface rust here and there, etc.

I feel like if I took on that project I'd have to get the rest of the bike up to the level of the stuff that's already been cleaned and painted. ,While I would prefer a normal engine the black is not so bad. But thinking about having all those small parts cleaned and painted at cost, makes me think that the project budget would quickly go way out of control.

I'm wondering, how much is all of the outsourced work that you're having done setting you back? I see that aside from aquiring a lot of parts you are having a lot of things professionally painted.

[spuds]

sounds like a challenging, project!

So far, I've outsourced the front rim powdercoating, and the tank/side covers painting.   I'm very fortunate to have a professional painter who's day job is doing bodywork/painting cars etc, and his boss lets him do the odd little side project there at the shop.   He charges me a very fair rate, as for him it's a break from working on minivan fenders....

Painting work can be as cheap or expensive as you want it I guess....

[Flyin900]

Spuds a tip on your carbs before you go ahead and install them back on the bike after a rebuild it is good to run a gas bottle hooked up to the carbs to test for leaks. Saves the headache of having to pull them back off again and much easier to do a clear line fuel level check if there are leak issues.
Nice work on the resto mod and I do like the wheels and the general cleanup of the internals in the motor will pay off for you.
That muffler you have is a DSS reproduction item and not cheap to import into Canada, so you should be able to sell that to someone who is restoring to original.
Nice to have a local painter with a shop and that is really good when it is -20 C and no heat in the garage.

[spuds]

Good tip on the carb leak test prior to putting them back on....cu'z that's not fun!

The muffler says "Campbells" on the back.    I found a "Campbell" custom exhaust place on the web and though---ooohh...could it be from them??   Sent them some pics, and learned that, no,   it's not.

Will likely put it and some other stuff up eventually...already sold a few items.

[Flyin900]

I received the same muffler with my latest CB400F build and bought one from DSS a few years ago on another CB400F build and it looks to be much the same style of one from what I can see in the pictures of yours. Landed here I believe I paid around $250+ CDN a few years back, so you should be able to get a decent price from a restorer.

Nice detail work and pictures on your restoration. I tend to take the pics more to give me a reference when I am putting things back together, as I can't usually remember what I had for breakfast... never mind a few months later putting it back together.

The carbs can sometimes be leakers with the metal tip fuel needles and sometimes just a rap on the bowls fixes that and sometimes not, so I always check now, as it does save some frustration later.

[spuds]

Thanks for the continued curiousity and comments folks.

Some more little tasks completed----cylinder head, camshaft, etc all back on, valve cover and breather cover back on, all with new gaskets and o-rings etc and moving surfaces smeared with assembly lube.   Next steps there are to adjust the valves---the adjusters were all backed way off (according to my interpretation of the top end disassembly instructions in the manuals), so they all need to be set.   



My tires are ordered, so they'll be going on the wheels in the last week of Feb, and with having a rolling chassis again, the engine can go back into the frame!  yeah!!

Also scooped a nice little muffler for almost next to nothing---I think it will install and line up nicely, it's baffled so (but what do I know?) I think it should work just fine with the stock jetting/air filter.....time will tell.  The goal of having something shorter and less "megaphone shaped" and not necessarily that much louder would be achieved if it works.  If not, I keep shopping!!

New (to me) little silencer alongside the Campbell's pipe that was on the bike.


The wee silencer mocked up (loosely) on the headers....'cuz I couldn't resist.

[spuds]

Tires on, brake  calipers and new shoes out back, wheels back on the frame.   Roller!!!!

[Flyin900]

Spuds,

Looking good and moving along very well. If those are Avon Roadrider tires they are a great tires on these small fours with nice grippy rubber and don't tramline in the grooved pavement.

I was going to suggest that you can put the motor back into the frame using two people by laying the motor on it's side and lifting the bare frame over the sideways motor. It avoids scratching the lower frame rails on the oil pan. I don't think you can do that now with the bike being a roller with those extra parts attached and the weight.
I have done this by myself on one occasion and it makes the job fairly simple in bolting up the motor and moving the frame around to the correct alignment. With the main stand attached to the frame just flip the frame back upright flip down the main stand and block the front section of the frame and your ready to attach the front forks. After that the bike is a totally stable platform to continue to build out.

[spuds]

They are indeed Roadriders.

It was down to between them and BT45's.  Probably wouldn't go wrong with either, but I see the Avons on a lot of builds, so that played a part in swaying me towards them.

[spuds]

Well, the engine's back in.

Ended up taking the breather cover off after a couple of careful unsuccessful attempts, with that cover off we gained a little more wiggle room.

Feels good to have that step behind me!!!





I did not go all in with the cleaning/polishing....cleaned up the cases, jugs and head as good as I could, took some AutoGlym (love this stuff!!---crappy that one can no longer find it Canada any longer!!) to the tappet covers, breather cover, points cover etc..   The bike's gonna be a rider---so I don't want to be constantly hung up on keeping it "showroom clean'---as beautiful as that may well be.

[marccrabtreee]

Just spent the last hour going through your thread, excellent project and so well documented, nice work.

I once had a '77 400F. biggest mistake was when I sold it.

Fellow Canadian from Toronto.

[spuds]

Thanks Marc,

Some progress (albeit including the usual discovery of a "must take one step back to deal with a forgotten item") since past post.

With the engine back in, dug out the coils and installed them, and dug out the wiring harness.   

Cut away all the old tape / sheathing, and cleaned everything up a bit.   It's all pretty much going back in as removed except that I will use a combo rectifier/voltage regulator unit and some mini blade fuses (original wiring to/from original fusebox had already been repaired prior, so took the opportunity to clean that up a bit too).   

Apologies for the fuzzy pics - relegated to using the cell phone camera...ick!







Then figured I'd get the exhaust headers back on----





Sorta starting to look like a motorbike again!

[spuds]

It's been a while!!

Not sure why, but progress on this sorta took a back seat to other things.

Got the bike started/running....I think there's still some fiddling I need to do, but I was absolutely thrilled to have it start and run!!!!

Other tasks:
Repaired a small crack in the headlight bucket, used an existing hole and drilled a second one for some idiot lights, painted it up.   




Got the gauges mounted and rigged a set of brackets to hold the ignition switch. 





Have been poking away at getting all the electrical bits tested and working.....everything's up and running except for the right rear signal light not actually blinking....somewhat perplexed, but I'm sure I'll discover that I simply overlooked something (everything worked prior to dismantling).

Tank got cleaned up and painted in Honda Milano Red some time ago, but got the decals on



Started thinking of the front fender.   The front end is from a CB500F, with fender mount holes placed for a 19"wheel, which then places the fender way too high.   I may end up having to splurge bigger time to get something much more slick, but figured some time tinkering is never wasted (part of why we do these things right?).   Pulled the 400Four fender mount and fender apart.   Modified the mount to fit around the second brake caliper mount.   Thought--what if I ran the fender BELOW the mount------paint them up in two different colours even to not make it look like I'm trying to hide something----make the fender mount a bit of a focal point.

So, some sanding, some drilling of new holes, some filling of redundant holes, some fender cutting, some more sanding, some primer, and some paint.   The mount is painted with some Buell XB9 silver frame paint that I had (had painted the brake caliper brackets in this colour too), and the fender is high gloss black.   Still debating on whether or not I might try to fill that airspace between the fender and mount with something (?) paintable.   May not be to everyone's taste, and I'll install it and sit back and stare at it all for a while to see if it grows on me.

[Don R]

looking good, let's just bump this one up with the other 400 threads.

[spuds]

Hey thanks Don.

Timing's kinda funny for your post too----that DSS seat cover you sold me finally got used!!  Somewhere back in the previous posts there are some shots my stock seat reshaping antics, and I got the call the other day that my seat was ready to be picked up.

Stock 400F seat, couple of inches lobbed off the back, and the foam reshaped.  Keeps all the original mounting/latching points. DSS 400F seat cover, replaced the rear part (backwards from the original's seam location) with a new piece that would follow the seat's new lines.   The guy filled in the areas where the strap buckles had been applying some 40ish years of pressure, and used some gold thread to hopefully pick up the yellow in the decals.   Allows me to maintain the 400F set top pattern...ideally we would have figured out a way to only have the rider's portion have the pattern, but......it kinda works.

I see a couple of little "I wish that was better" spots, but overall....I think I'm close to the look I was going for.   

Being able to have the tank and seat on now allows me to start exploring the rear fender length, and filling the void between seat and fender with a tail light.  I have a couple sitting around, and will start experimenting.

[spuds]

Great hearing the growl!!

cold engine started nicely on choke, then settled (finally, with some idle speed fiddling) into a nice burble.    Video is of a warm engine start up.

stock carb jetting, original air filter (new one is on the "final" shopping list), and this alternative muffler off a ...... harley (HD OEM take off, bought a pair of them for $90, almost brand new)....     Hopefully it will all work on  the road---time will tell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-zLafTvBng&feature=youtu.be

[spuds]

Couple of more bits tackled.

I think the tail section is all buttoned up.   Shortened and repainted 400F rear fender, tail light/licence bracket made up of some random bits I had in a box (including part of an unused chrome tail light bracket from the T500).....most of it gets hidden and it uses two existing threaded holes on the fender.




Took care of some of the front end wiring tasks too, and got the side cover decals on



...and started on the front brakes. Bought some banjo fittings/bolts/crush washers and a SS line to go from the master to the 3 way joint....some of it's arrived, some still en route. Once I'm happy with the top part, I'll measure up the SS lines I need to get to the calipers.
Step one was to get the fender mount on with the caliper arms lined up properly with the rotors.   Many more experienced folks warn of the moving pieces of running a second rotor, as well as with running the calipers behind the forks.    So, after much poking, trial and erroring (including putting the pistons and pads into the calipers (then having to load the outside caliper up to a master cylinder to pump the pad and pistons back out again (more on that later)), I *think* i have the caliper arms at a close enough angle.   I hope.    Ended up using two washers on the two fender mount bolts on the clutch side, and one washer each on the "front" fender mount bolt and main caliper mount bolt on the throttle side.

Getting that third caliper arm bolt in on each side required lifting the front of the bike, removing the axle clamps to drop the tire (which I had to deflate to squeeze between the caliper arm / fender mount), then buttoning everything back up.  So I REALLY hope my caliper arms are "close enough"!!!   




Now----on pistons/pads.....Like I mentioned earlier, I was able to push the phenolic piston and outer pad out of the caliper by pumping the brake lever on a master cylinder.....BUT....fitting the piston and pad-----they're a really tight fit?!?!?!    Hard to describe with a keyboard....but how "tight" should they be to go into the caliper?    I guess my worry is more about them being too tight as opposed to to loose....


 

[marting100]

Nice job man!!!..on my bike I used the banjo bolt at the Master cylinder and took out all that crap (3 way point) with a direct SS line. For the front brake I have also used a phenolic piston from power-barn.com. The 1st one I got was the wrong model (found out when installing it ;-)..you can take it out easily using the line intake and push compressed air in it, it will go out ;-) just don't put your face in front  ...got the good one later on and the fit was perfect. With new pads it's tight but when everything is button up your wheel should turn freely. Hope that help.
Cheers!
M

[marting100]

....maybe I did not understand exactly what you mean ... the pads I got (cant remember the brand) were tight but not hard at all to push in the caliper and the piston should slide easily in also.
Cheers!
M