Author Topic: Primary reduction Ratio  (Read 2049 times)

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Offline bwaller

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Primary reduction Ratio
« on: October 24, 2017, 04:08:06 PM »
Fancy title. If someone has a 650 bottom end apart would you verify the teeth on the crank sprocket and the primary shaft damper sprocket please. The sprockets the primary chain runs on. ( ie crank should be 24T and damper gear 28T...same as the 550.

Thanks

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Primary reduction Ratio
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2017, 04:40:08 PM »
Sorry, I don't know the actual tooth counts. Not sure if it helps but some 650's have different primary reductions, so I guess different tooth count? The '79 and '82 are the same at 2.737 and '80 and '81 are the same at 2.738. Very minor but probably a tooth larger or smaller. I'll look through my pictures and see if I can count them.


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Offline bwaller

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Re: Primary reduction Ratio
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2017, 06:28:48 PM »
Thanks Dave, I hadn't found the primary reduction number. Must be a typo because I see all the primary drive gears are 26T so the clutch basket gears will have to be the same too.

Offline scunny

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Re: Primary reduction Ratio
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2017, 10:38:30 PM »
I've got a bottom end but not here. Will probably be able to count the teeth on Saturday.
past-cb100,ts250,cb500,cb500,gs1000,gs650g.phillips traveller
present-CB 650 retro
            VTR1000F3
           XL250S riverbed rocket
           TS250[sold]
           TS185[sold]
           XL125S[sold]
           MT50 (white)
           MT50 (red)[sold]
           KN250/XS400 project
           XR/XL250 bitsa under construction
           SL100[sold]
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Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: Primary reduction Ratio
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2017, 08:46:54 AM »
Sorry, Brent.  Mine is tucked in for bed in the case.
1975 CB550K1 "Blue" Stockish Restomod (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=135005.0)
1975 CB550F1 frame/CB650 engine hybrid "The Hot Mess" (http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,150220.0.html)
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Offline bwaller

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Re: Primary reduction Ratio
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2017, 09:29:34 AM »
Thanks guys. If you get a chance scunny it will settle this for me. It appears the only difference is with primary gear and mating clutch basket.

I'm due to replace my rear alloy sprockets this off season anyway. For next year I plan to use the 650 clutch basket and primary gear to slow the clutch speed. Ultimately I'll need different size sprockets because of the reduction in overall drive ratio.

Offline scunny

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Re: Primary reduction Ratio
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2017, 09:42:41 AM »
no problem, shall be onto it asap.
past-cb100,ts250,cb500,cb500,gs1000,gs650g.phillips traveller
present-CB 650 retro
            VTR1000F3
           XL250S riverbed rocket
           TS250[sold]
           TS185[sold]
           XL125S[sold]
           MT50 (white)
           MT50 (red)[sold]
           KN250/XS400 project
           XR/XL250 bitsa under construction
           SL100[sold]
           XL250R
           pedal(pub bike) leaks oil
my gallery http://gallery.sohc4.net/members/personal/scunny

Offline pangloss

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Re: Primary reduction Ratio
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2017, 01:53:34 PM »
The drive gear for the 650 clutch basket is Larger....to make it fit on a 550 the clutch cover needs to be dremmeled out a bit....This will drive the clutch basket FASTER.......... Thereby making it able to transmit more Power for a given Torque capability......

Offline kmb69

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Re: Primary reduction Ratio
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2017, 03:15:26 PM »
Fancy title. If someone has a 650 bottom end apart would you verify the teeth on the crank sprocket and the primary shaft damper sprocket please. The sprockets the primary chain runs on. ( ie crank should be 24T and damper gear 28T...same as the 550.

Thanks

Got to be the same - 24/28. They all use a 50 length primary chain. The current Honda parts fiches show the same part number for the 500, 550, and the 650 primary chain - 23131-426-003.

Thanks Dave, I hadn't found the primary reduction number. Must be a typo because I see all the primary drive gears are 26T so the clutch basket gears will have to be the same too.

Correct. The difference is a rounding error as typed. 650's are all the same.

.....
I'm due to replace my rear alloy sprockets this off season anyway. For next year I plan to use the 650 clutch basket and primary gear to slow the clutch speed. Ultimately I'll need different size sprockets because of the reduction in overall drive ratio.

It's the other way around. The 550 manual shows primary reduction (which includes crank to primary and primary to clutch) at 3.063:1. The primary reduction on the 650 is 2.737:1. So at the same crankshaft RPM's, the higher 650 primary reduction will spin the clutch 1.119 times faster than the 550. At 10,000 crank RPM's, the 550 is spinning the clutch at 3264.773 RPM's. At 10,000 crank RPM's, the 650 is spinning the clutch at 3653.635 RPM's.


Offline bwaller

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Re: Primary reduction Ratio
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2017, 05:24:07 PM »
Correct about clutch speed, faster not slower!

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Primary reduction Ratio
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2017, 07:11:15 PM »
Ah, yeah if the chain is the same then it can't be different. Strange because it was an addendum for the later years. So they got it right first, then screwed it up, then got it right again for the '82.

So yeah, 28 teeth for the primary damper.




Offline scunny

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Re: Primary reduction Ratio
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2017, 08:33:40 PM »
Yep, managed to dodge work for a bit and it's 24-28
past-cb100,ts250,cb500,cb500,gs1000,gs650g.phillips traveller
present-CB 650 retro
            VTR1000F3
           XL250S riverbed rocket
           TS250[sold]
           TS185[sold]
           XL125S[sold]
           MT50 (white)
           MT50 (red)[sold]
           KN250/XS400 project
           XR/XL250 bitsa under construction
           SL100[sold]
           XL250R
           pedal(pub bike) leaks oil
my gallery http://gallery.sohc4.net/members/personal/scunny