Topic: Texas. Gun Deaths. At a Church. Not political.

[RAFster122s]

Used to guns sold at a gun show were largely under the table transactions before background check and transfer information became more widespread and required. Many states had a waiting period after sale for the paperwork to be and any checks to clear.  Some states have a maximum number of guns you can purchase in one year.

Chicago has some of the most restrictive handgun laws in the nation but it has the highest or one of the highest handgun death rates in the nation.  It is not those coming into Chicago having responsibility for these deaths.

California has some of the most restrictive knife laws in the country.  To carry a knife in Orange County or LA region it must be 2" or less in blade length.  That length has reduced significantly in the past 8 years...

Someone trained to do so can learn to inflict mortal harm to another with common instruments readily available, some of those methods are rather guesome  and would make most cringe.  You cannot protect against these people.  Fortunately the number of people trained to do so is a very small percentage and many of those have morals to not use those skills in a manner to inflict mass harm on innocent people.  Or the punishment for death of another is enough to dissuade that.

But this conversation or thread of arguments back and forth is really pointless as most who hold strong opinion will not have those changed through these exchanges.
It is a tragedy what has happened.  It is a complex issue that will not be solved by a simplistic answer or single action.
To not trample the rights of the population but to take measures to address societies ills is really a balancing act.

Personnally I think anyone who has a concealed carry license should also have a minimum yearly test to demonstrate an ability to be accurate enough to hit the outer ring at least on a std target as well as have a random generated quiz regarding basic test questions 5-10 questions.
I know someone in AZ who has CCL and she cannot hit the target at all at 25 feet with a 380 pistol or any other handgun. She should not have that license in my opinion.  She was not granted the license based upon being under threat.

Too many people do not stay current with their proficiency and they are a danger to themselves and others.

[Lostboy Steve]

Used to guns sold at a gun show were largely under the table transactions before background check and transfer information became more widespread and required. Many states had a waiting period after sale for the paperwork to be and any checks to clear.  Some states have a maximum number of guns you can purchase in one year.

Chicago has some of the most restrictive handgun laws in the nation but it has the highest or one of the highest handgun death rates in the nation.  It is not those coming into Chicago having responsibility for these deaths.

California has some of the most restrictive knife laws in the country.  To carry a knife in Orange County or LA region it must be 2" or less in blade length.  That length has reduced significantly in the past 8 years...

Someone trained to do so can learn to inflict mortal harm to another with common instruments readily available, some of those methods are rather guesome  and would make most cringe.  You cannot protect against these people.  Fortunately the number of people trained to do so is a very small percentage and many of those have morals to not use those skills in a manner to inflict mass harm on innocent people.  Or the punishment for death of another is enough to dissuade that.

But this conversation or thread of arguments back and forth is really pointless as most who hold strong opinion will not have those changed through these exchanges.
It is a tragedy what has happened.  It is a complex issue that will not be solved by a simplistic answer or single action.
To not trample the rights of the population but to take measures to address societies ills is really a balancing act.

Personnally I think anyone who has a concealed carry license should also have a minimum yearly test to demonstrate an ability to be accurate enough to hit the outer ring at least on a std target as well as have a random generated quiz regarding basic test questions 5-10 questions.
I know someone in AZ who has CCL and she cannot hit the target at all at 25 feet with a 380 pistol or any other handgun. She should not have that license in my opinion.  She was not granted the license based upon being under threat.

Too many people do not stay current with their proficiency and they are a danger to themselves and others.

Why have ccl in Arizona? So she can stow it in her purse? She seems like a dummy in the first place. Isn’t open carry legal there. I also agree that with ccl comes great responsibility and I would gladly take such a test if that was an option. Instead, NJ just pretends they’ll issue and then never does, even when you show necessity.

Again, I’m not against sensible gun regulation, but if you’re going to be sensible about it, let me have a ccl in a state where I’ve never broken a law except for a speeding ticket 5 over the posted limit. I’ll take a test be it physical or mental.



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[RAFster122s]

In AZ Open carry is legal and you might get challenged on it in the city as to it being needed and many businesses do not allow open carry or even conceal carry if the sign is of any indication. There are places it is illegal which make sense, schools, gov't buildings, hospitals, theaters, etc.
But, you cannot legally ban the weapon from being in the vehicle locked away. Having it in the vehicle not in a gun safe bolted to the vehicle is reckless and IMHO pretty stupid.  Small gun safes can be bolted down in the trunk or center console that will defeat at least temporarily all but the determined thief.

Even concealed carry is allowed there without a license, unless the laws were changed since spring of '13 when I moved back to TN after nearly a 30 year absence.

Castle law is in effect in AZ as in TX and when at home you have to right to shoot anyone who you feel is threatening your life with bodily harm or others are about to receive same harm and they are unable to protect themselves in your home. Basic gist of the castle doctrine law...

David

[Lostboy Steve]

In AZ Open carry is legal and you might get challenged on it in the city as to it being needed and many businesses do not allow open carry or even conceal carry if the sign is of any indication. There are places it is illegal which make sense, schools, gov't buildings, hospitals, theaters, etc.
But, you cannot legally ban the weapon from being in the vehicle locked away. Having it in the vehicle not in a gun safe bolted to the vehicle is reckless and IMHO pretty stupid.  Small gun safes can be bolted down in the trunk or center console that will defeat at least temporarily all but the determined thief.

Even concealed carry is allowed there without a license, unless the laws were changed since spring of '13 when I moved back to TN after nearly a 30 year absence.

Castle law is in effect in AZ as in TX and when at home you have to right to shoot anyone who you feel is threatening your life with bodily harm or others are about to receive same harm and they are unable to protect themselves in your home. Basic gist of the castle doctrine law...

David

Yeah and in NJ we have the, get shot before you shoot back law. Or flee your own home law, whichever you prefer.

As far as leaving a gun in a locked car, I agree. Someone should tell police officers that though, police duty weapons go missing all the time.


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[RAFster122s]

Just to clarify, my comment about gun safes in car is when you legally are not able to carry the gun into a business or your workplace and are forced to leave it in your vehicle. Leaving it in a glovebox or between the seats can be reckless.  Smash and grabs too common.
I am all for CCL and gun rights.
David

In AZ Open carry is legal and you might get challenged on it in the city as to it being needed and many businesses do not allow open carry or even conceal carry if the sign is of any indication. There are places it is illegal which make sense, schools, gov't buildings, hospitals, theaters, etc.
But, you cannot legally ban the weapon from being in the vehicle locked away. Having it in the vehicle not in a gun safe bolted to the vehicle is reckless and IMHO pretty stupid.  Small gun safes can be bolted down in the trunk or center console that will defeat at least temporarily all but the determined thief.

Even concealed carry is allowed there without a license, unless the laws were changed since spring of '13 when I moved back to TN after nearly a 30 year absence.

Castle law is in effect in AZ as in TX and when at home you have to right to shoot anyone who you feel is threatening your life with bodily harm or others are about to receive same harm and they are unable to protect themselves in your home. Basic gist of the castle doctrine law...

David

[Lostboy Steve]

Just to clarify, my comment about gun safes in car is when you legally are not able to carry the gun into a business or your workplace and are forced to leave it in your vehicle. Leaving it in a glovebox or between the seats can be reckless.  Smash and grabs too common.
I am all for CCL and gun rights.
David

In AZ Open carry is legal and you might get challenged on it in the city as to it being needed and many businesses do not allow open carry or even conceal carry if the sign is of any indication. There are places it is illegal which make sense, schools, gov't buildings, hospitals, theaters, etc.
But, you cannot legally ban the weapon from being in the vehicle locked away. Having it in the vehicle not in a gun safe bolted to the vehicle is reckless and IMHO pretty stupid.  Small gun safes can be bolted down in the trunk or center console that will defeat at least temporarily all but the determined thief.

Even concealed carry is allowed there without a license, unless the laws were changed since spring of '13 when I moved back to TN after nearly a 30 year absence.

Castle law is in effect in AZ as in TX and when at home you have to right to shoot anyone who you feel is threatening your life with bodily harm or others are about to receive same harm and they are unable to protect themselves in your home. Basic gist of the castle doctrine law...

David

I agree. I was being serious. All too often the people breaking the law are those who are supposed to enforce it. This is why its such a complex issue.


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[Lostboy Steve]

And alas a responsible gun owner Stephen Willeford in his own words “had to get in his gun safe” to get his AR15 rifle and run across the street barefoot. He saved many lives, and could have saved more. Although I do agree that a safe is the place to store your long arms, I have to wonder how those seconds mattered here.


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[BomberMann650]

Biometric safes are great for this.
In a panic?  Just press your palm to the sensor.  If you ain’t you, safe stays closed.

[Terry in Australia]

And alas a responsible gun owner Stephen Willeford in his own words “had to get in his gun safe” to get his AR15 rifle and run across the street barefoot. He saved many lives, and could have saved more. Although I do agree that a safe is the place to store your long arms, I have to wonder how those seconds mattered here.
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Really? I thought the killer was only injured after he'd already shot all those people and was leaving the scene? How did Stephen "Save many lives"? He'd already shot 46 people, killing 26, does anyone know if the killer was going to shoot anyone else, but himself, which he did?

The town only has a population of 600, was there another large gathering of people he intended to target? I understand that it's important to pull something good out of such a horrible event, but seriously, that's a stretch.

[Lostboy Steve]

And alas a responsible gun owner Stephen Willeford in his own words “had to get in his gun safe” to get his AR15 rifle and run across the street barefoot. He saved many lives, and could have saved more. Although I do agree that a safe is the place to store your long arms, I have to wonder how those seconds mattered here.
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Really? I thought the killer was only injured after he'd already shot all those people and was leaving the scene? How did Stephen "Save many lives"? He'd already shot 46 people, killing 26, does anyone know if the killer was going to shoot anyone else, but himself, which he did?

The town only has a population of 600, was there another large gathering of people he intended to target? I understand that it's important to pull something good out of such a horrible event, but seriously, that's a stretch.

He heard the shots, ran across the street and put a few “well placed” shots on him which is when he jumped in the car and the chase ensued. As it turns out, Stephen may have actually killed him.

Watch the video.



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[Lostboy Steve]

And alas a responsible gun owner Stephen Willeford in his own words “had to get in his gun safe” to get his AR15 rifle and run across the street barefoot. He saved many lives, and could have saved more. Although I do agree that a safe is the place to store your long arms, I have to wonder how those seconds mattered here.
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Really? I thought the killer was only injured after he'd already shot all those people and was leaving the scene? How did Stephen "Save many lives"? He'd already shot 46 people, killing 26, does anyone know if the killer was going to shoot anyone else, but himself, which he did?

The town only has a population of 600, was there another large gathering of people he intended to target? I understand that it's important to pull something good out of such a horrible event, but seriously, that's a stretch.

What stretch Terry? I like you a lot dude but don’t be a moron. He was aiming to kill as many as possible, this guy interrupted his plans.


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[Terry in Australia]

And alas a responsible gun owner Stephen Willeford in his own words “had to get in his gun safe” to get his AR15 rifle and run across the street barefoot. He saved many lives, and could have saved more. Although I do agree that a safe is the place to store your long arms, I have to wonder how those seconds mattered here.
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Really? I thought the killer was only injured after he'd already shot all those people and was leaving the scene? How did Stephen "Save many lives"? He'd already shot 46 people, killing 26, does anyone know if the killer was going to shoot anyone else, but himself, which he did?

The town only has a population of 600, was there another large gathering of people he intended to target? I understand that it's important to pull something good out of such a horrible event, but seriously, that's a stretch.

What stretch Terry? I like you a lot dude but don’t be a moron. He was aiming to kill as many as possible, this guy interrupted his plans.


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Name calling Steve? Nice........ Read the news reports mate, he'd exited the church after shooting 46 people before Stephen engaged him, shooting him in the leg and torso. Sure, that could be enough to eventually kill him, but he then shot himself in the head, which certainly did the job. Let's keep the insults to a minimum, ok?

[BomberMann650]

Speaking of texas shootings.

The court trail against the bandidos and cossaks ended in a mis.  Hung jury

[Terry in Australia]

I missed that one Cow Man, what was that about?

[BomberMann650]

Few years back a couple of 1% outlaw biker gangs ended up in a 3 way shoot out between the bandidos, cossacks, and waco tx pd.

The state of texas has been trying to hang these bikers for a litany of crimes, many of the charges trumped up by prosecutors without evidence.

Close to twenty motorcyclists died in that crossfire and several more were wounded.  Almost 200 arrested and extorted for bail. 

Would gun laws ever prevent this?  I’m gonna say no - because gangsters.  There are also many bandidos and cossack members testifying to the fact that police were firing more bullets than the bikers.  Bikers didn’t bring that much ammo!  Cops were locked and loaded as usual.

[Ridem32]

Was that the shoot out at twin peaks eating place?


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[BomberMann650]

Was that the shoot out at twin peaks eating place?

Yep, thats the place! made the national news!
some motorcyclists believe it caused cops to act aggressive to anyone on 2 wheels.

[Ridem32]

Yea I️ saw it on the news. It was bullets flying everywhere.  The bandits have lots of money for good lawyers


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[63SSRagtop]

One thing is for sure, peeps either for or against firearms are usually steadfast in their opinions, whether right or wrong..  It's always going to be a sticky subject, and there really is no effective solution.

New gun laws? Only a special kind of person would think it would work...  Criminals and the criminally insane don't care much about laws, and it wouldn't slow them down a bit...  It really wouldn't.

The only real thing anyone can do is to constantly be aware of their surroundings and hope like hell some nut job with an agenda isn't standing right next to you.. And if something does go down, do everything you can to protect those around you.

I applaud that man for recognizing the threat and acting quickly..
He didn't think of himself.. he didn't hide.. he sprung into action, smartly!

   








   

 

 

[BomberMann650]

Yea!  saw it on the news. It was bullets flying everywhere.  The bandits have lots of money for good lawyers

The way motorcycling culture is today.  Pretty good chance some of the Bandidos ARE LAWYERS

[63SSRagtop]

Really? I thought the killer was only injured after he'd already shot all those people and was leaving the scene? How did Stephen "Save many lives"? He'd already shot 46 people, killing 26, does anyone know if the killer was going to shoot anyone else, but himself, which he did?

Now that's an easy assumption.. A person that just did what he had done, has absolutely zero to lose.. so yeah.. without a doubt he saved lives...

He's a hero in my book.. I hope to actually shake his hand one day on a trip back home..

[Lostboy Steve]

 Fine Terry, I’m sorry. I just couldn’t believe that you could dismiss this mans heroism that easily. I know plenty of people who what have seen what he saw and ran the other direction. I am still skeptical whether he did shoot himself or not. I suppose time will tell.


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[Lostboy Steve]

Yea!  saw it on the news. It was bullets flying everywhere.  The bandits have lots of money for good lawyers

The way motorcycling culture is today.  Pretty good chance some of the Bandidos ARE LAWYERS

I’m surprised I didn’t see the hung jury in the news. I remember the original story, but haven’t heard much else.


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[vfourfreak]

fcukit let's go back to how it was meant to be

[scrapvalue]

Just throwing this out there,

Population of Australia is 24 million people. The population of the USA is 324 million. Australia has a great border wall,(ocean). If you do the comparison by capita, we are not any worse then anyone else. But if we keep letting the Liberals have their way, we will soon be a third world country at best. Look at the crime in this country where gun laws are the strictest,(Chicago & Washington D.C), and they have the most crime. Liberalism is the problem, not law abiding people in this country. Why doesn't our elected leader s go after the criminals with guns instead of the honest person who just wants to protect themselves and their loved ones?