Author Topic: Oil on top 3 fins of cylinder? Where is it from?  (Read 3496 times)

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Offline 1976cb750f836

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Oil on top 3 fins of cylinder? Where is it from?
« on: November 19, 2017, 06:33:00 PM »
Put my 836 kit in bout 5 years and 2000 miles ago?
I'm  getting oil seapage,just a tad on the 3 top fins of the cylinder?
I put all new gaskets in, correct tq, and followed the Manual!
What did I miss? How to fix without removing the head?
I added some Lucas oil stop leak bout 300 miles ago, not any better?
Any ideas?
Thanks

Offline disco

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Re: Oil on top 3 fins of cylinder? Where is it from?
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2017, 07:12:40 PM »
Leaking from the ‘pucks’. The pucks are those round rubbers that install under the cam towers. Underneath the puck (when installed) is open to atmosphere. Did you apply some non-hardening sealer when you installed them? The fix for you now is
1. either install a frame kit, so you can remove the head with Engine in frame.
2. Remove the Engine from frame
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Offline Nic

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Re: Oil on top 3 fins of cylinder? Where is it from?
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2017, 07:21:21 PM »
No need to remove head, just cam cover, cam, rockers, and cam towers. I use Permatex make a gasket II on the pucks. Use genuine Honda pucks, some other brands are not as thick. Bummer, I got 5,000 Kays on my last set of pucks. It's a #$%* design.
Watch out for stripped 6mm threads and make sure you don't over tighten the others.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Oil on top 3 fins of cylinder? Where is it from?
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2017, 07:22:57 PM »
There are 2 leak sites that are likely. Disco has one of them: we suffered a time when the 'pucks' were too thin, which finally ended about 5 years ago. You can get the correct ones from PartsNmore today, as they have gone to some length to get the correct ones.

The other place: all of the head gaskets we see today are thicker than the OEM type. This usually causes the O-rings at the back of the cylinders (which is the main oil supply to the head, 60 PSI), which came in your gasket kit, to leak - which leaks to the front and makes it look like the front is leaking. The O-ring spec was for 2.4x12mm O-rings, IF the head gasket was Honda's original 0.8mm thick: your head gasket was 1.00mm thick instead. So, the O-rings are too thin, and let oil seep past when the engine is hot and running above 4000 RPM. You can use the 2.62x10.77mm type (I have hundreds of these) or get some yourself from Parker: this is their 0.10"x0.4375" standard O-ring. Buna material is fine for this O-ring (you need 2 of them).
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Offline 1976cb750f836

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Re: Oil on top 3 fins of cylinder? Where is it from?
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2017, 05:44:56 AM »
Mine is leaking at front and blowing back the fin,does that mean o ring instead of puck?
Already have frame kit, ant pulling head, but I would pull cam cover if that will get me deep Enough?
Is their a way of determining which place oil is From? Or do I just need to replace both?
And no amount, or brand of oil stop leak will fix this???
Will it continue to get worse?
If it is only seepage I'm going to live with it a While?
If I can fix by just cam cover and cams, I'll do it this winter?
This is not good News!
Thanks

Offline 1976cb750f836

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Re: Oil on top 3 fins of cylinder? Where is it from?
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2017, 05:58:35 AM »
Looked at parts n more site, how many pucks do I need?
Will the oil seal kit they sell have pucks and o-rings in it?

Offline PeWe

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Re: Oil on top 3 fins of cylinder? Where is it from?
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2017, 06:14:09 AM »
- Leak via the valve cover bolts? Some have hole going thru. Yamiya bolt set has one version with teflon tape. Add thin layer of teflon tape close to the leak and see.
- Leak thru the studs.
- Remove plug and check with finger inside the cavity.
  You might feel oil thru the stud hole or from the rubber puck.
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Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline 1976cb750f836

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Re: Oil on top 3 fins of cylinder? Where is it from?
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2017, 10:03:20 AM »
Just changed plugs,no oil in hole.
Their is a dust ring around the cam cover, I'll investigate,Ned to adjust valves anyway?
What else do I look for while cover is off.
And I've benn thinking bout it, if I have to pull head,no time like upcoming winter to do It!
Can I still get the correct thickness head gasket from anywhere?(more compression)
Is their a head set that contains all the Correct pieces?
I remember the pucks when in it last time,but I can't remember the o rings?
I'll get my book out tonight and read up, might tear down this weekend?

Offline 1976cb750f836

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Re: Oil on top 3 fins of cylinder? Where is it from?
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2017, 11:01:07 AM »
Also I have a honda. 12251-300-306 head gasket, is this correct for a 836, 1976 engine F.

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: Oil on top 3 fins of cylinder? Where is it from?
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2017, 11:08:31 AM »
No, that's for a 736cc engine/61mm, not the 65mm.
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Offline Henning

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Re: Oil on top 3 fins of cylinder? Where is it from?
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2017, 11:23:35 AM »
If/when you pull the cam cover be sure to re-torque the head, it can help. Mine was leaking on both sides, after re-torquing it only leaks on the left hand side. Better but still annoying.
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: Oil on top 3 fins of cylinder? Where is it from?
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2017, 03:38:07 PM »
Is it possible to sneak the valve cover off without pulling the motor?
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Re: Oil on top 3 fins of cylinder? Where is it from?
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2017, 06:27:04 PM »
Is it possible to sneak the valve cover off without pulling the motor?


It's hard enough to do that pulling the engine feels easier in the end(!). And, the engine will only fall down far enough to remove the cover (in my experience) if you already ground off the top of the flange on the right lower bolt's inner mount. Also, it is not possible in the K0/K1 frame, only the later ones. There is a bit of difference in the opening where the engine resides in the later frame.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Oil on top 3 fins of cylinder? Where is it from?
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2017, 06:28:44 PM »
Also I have a honda. 12251-300-306 head gasket, is this correct for a 836, 1976 engine F.

Contact CruisinImage: he sells his 836cc (65mm) head gaskets separately (usually via eBay and Paypal). This is the same thickness as all the rest, though.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline Nic

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Re: Oil on top 3 fins of cylinder? Where is it from?
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2017, 08:25:24 PM »
Is it possible to sneak the valve cover off without pulling the motor?


It's hard enough to do that pulling the engine feels easier in the end(!). And, the engine will only fall down far enough to remove the cover (in my experience) if you already ground off the top of the flange on the right lower bolt's inner mount. Also, it is not possible in the K0/K1 frame, only the later ones. There is a bit of difference in the opening where the engine resides in the later frame.
He said he already has frame kit, post #4, dunno if it's installed. You need 6 pucks. As for Cruisin image head gasket, ( hopefully you aren't one of the many, myself included, that that fool has blocked ) I have used it and you definitely need to retorque the head after a heat cycle or two, you'll be amazed at how little torque is on the nuts with that gasket. I know from exp that the 836/65mm gasket from Yamiya does NOT require retorque but it's quite expensive but IMO worth it when you consider the drama involved in retorquing the Honda head, not to mention you'll need 6 more of those bloody mongrel pucks.
The Z900 from Kawasaki is an absolute dream to work on compared to the Honda, you can even retorque the head with nothing more than a tank removal, Honda, shaking head now. 
« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 08:27:37 PM by Nic »

Offline PeWe

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Re: Oil on top 3 fins of cylinder? Where is it from?
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2017, 10:11:19 PM »
MLS head gasket is good since it does not require any re-torque after a heat cycle. Both mating surfaces must be really good and the MLS gasket rivets might be between the surfaces. I drill small dents on both cylinder and head were they meet. 8-10 mm drill something, not deep, just a dent for the flattened rivet. (I made the rivets flatter with a hammer.

I made one mistake with Cometic fiber gasket (836), applied copper spray on it. What a leak!!! My local mechanic told me that the graphite must be mounted dry to seal. Since I have a frame kit, no big deal to fix only some $$ that flew away.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline BobbyR

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Re: Oil on top 3 fins of cylinder? Where is it from?
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2017, 05:28:19 AM »
Is it possible to sneak the valve cover off without pulling the motor?


It's hard enough to do that pulling the engine feels easier in the end(!). And, the engine will only fall down far enough to remove the cover (in my experience) if you already ground off the top of the flange on the right lower bolt's inner mount. Also, it is not possible in the K0/K1 frame, only the later ones. There is a bit of difference in the opening where the engine resides in the later frame.
He said he already has frame kit, post #4, dunno if it's installed. You need 6 pucks. As for Cruisin image head gasket, ( hopefully you aren't one of the many, myself included, that that fool has blocked ) I have used it and you definitely need to retorque the head after a heat cycle or two, you'll be amazed at how little torque is on the nuts with that gasket. I know from exp that the 836/65mm gasket from Yamiya does NOT require retorque but it's quite expensive but IMO worth it when you consider the drama involved in retorquing the Honda head, not to mention you'll need 6 more of those bloody mongrel pucks.
The Z900 from Kawasaki is an absolute dream to work on compared to the Honda, you can even retorque the head with nothing more than a tank removal, Honda, shaking head now.

Thank you both for the wisdom. I was hoping to avoid the engine pulling drama. Now I have to find a clever way of pulling the reinstalling the motor. Have a Happy Thanksgiving.
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline 1976cb750f836

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Re: Oil on top 3 fins of cylinder? Where is it from?
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2017, 05:51:32 AM »
I have the frame kit, installed when I did the 836.
I'll order 6 pucks and Pull the cam cover,install pucks,retorque head and c if it is fixed?
While I'm in their, can I tell for sure where the oil is From?
If it is the pucks,they should show leakage when I remove Them?
I hate to do all that work and find  out it was the o Ring?
I was really carefully and took my time when I did the 836.
The manufactory of  the sub standard parts should be liable?
Think I'll Sue?  Lol
So , no one makes a top end set, with all the gaskets and pucks and o-rings, for a 836?

Offline Nic

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Re: Oil on top 3 fins of cylinder? Where is it from?
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2017, 01:48:30 PM »
There will be oil everywhere in there, IMO you can't really tell which pucks are leaking except if there is oil around the spark plug. To clean most of the oil out of the crevices I use soft foam pieces about a square inch and long nose pliers to soak up the oil, maybe 2 to 4 pieces, the foam does an excellent job. Be sure to use some sealer on the pucks. Permatex make a gasket II seems to work well. If you have any stripped threads it can effect how long you stay leak free in the future, if using heli coils use some red loctite when installing them, they will be much better that way but I like to leave them over night to set before bolting things up, otherwise you will get the red stuff on the bolts as well, not good for future removals, once the heli coils are in you can mop up any loctite with dry cotton buds as well. I have had helicoils pull the threads from the head, this is why i use the loctite, it's a bigger drama if the helicoil pulls the alum threads.
 Also oil will have filled a lot of bolt holes, mop it out with cotton buds before you reinstall the bolts, I also like to do a final clean with thinners on a cotton bud and then use thread seal on the bolts that hold the towers down, hopefully you won't have any stripped threads, on mine just about all of them were stripped. The bolt threads can use a good clean with thinners as well, the cleaner everything is the better the sealer works obviously.
This job needs to be done right or your leak free Honda will leak again, as I said in an above post, I got 5,000 Kays from my previous pucks but when I opened the top up I found a couple of helicoils had pulled the threads and this meant less pressure of the pucks so one started leaking. You need all your threads to be good in there and a good sealant on the pucks. I wouldn't stress too much about the O rings at this point, oh and while you're in there, pull the oil jets ( careful not to drop/lose them ) and clean them and use new 6x2mm O rings there, all 4.
Good luck, there's nothing worse than oil leaking from the pucks.
One more thing, block the cam chain channel with a rag or two while you work up there. HTH.
Oh, and one more thing, when you remove the cover, oil usually will run out and down the front of the fins, try to be aware of this and mop up what you can, it is common that when riding the bike again you may get some oil on the side of the head fins again and think the problem is still there, if this happens, clean the #$%*e up and ride again, it may still get a "little less" oil on the fins, clean it up and ride again, depending on how much oil dripped into the front of the fins will determine how much blows out from the air pushing it around to the sides of the head. It should stay clean after this and you will be very happy and so will I ;D
edit: Well it never ends, when retorquing the head don't forget the 4 x 6mm bolts under the pucks, it's a shame they are there otherwise I would advocate the welding up of the puck holes  >:(
« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 02:37:22 PM by Nic »

Offline 1976cb750f836

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Re: Oil on top 3 fins of cylinder? Where is it from?
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2017, 05:12:03 AM »
Well Written! I don't expect any striped threasd,I went by the book,used a tq wrench,all was well when 836 Done!
I have permetex on  shelf,I'm old enough to remember using lots of this stuff, 1 and 2!
We had no RTV.
I'll follow  u r advice and clean and mop as I go.
It was warm again hear yesterday,I was doing some jetting,and test riding.
While in the floor working on carbs, I got a light and looked for where oil was coming from?
Cam cover not leaking,just a dust ring on gasket,plug holes all dry.
Looks like it's worse between the 2 center Cylinders?
Right under head,between 2 center exhaust ports,head is Wettest?
Does this info help determine where my problem Is?
Thanks


Offline Don R

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Re: Oil on top 3 fins of cylinder? Where is it from?
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2017, 06:46:21 AM »
 I assumed oil on the top fin was from the rocker cover, I have an 836 with an mls gasket that shows some oil on the top fin. It has a chromed rocker cover and on the last try I added a cycle X rubber covered gasket, now with allen bolts. It's way better but not 100% dry yet.
 I have one of the old I bikes frame kits since my bike was hacked back in the 70's. I'm ready to powder it and go for a ride.
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Offline Nic

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Re: Oil on top 3 fins of cylinder? Where is it from?
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2017, 01:24:28 PM »
Looks like it's worse between the 2 center Cylinders?
Right under head,between 2 center exhaust ports,head is Wettest?
Does this info help determine where my problem Is?
Thanks
My money's on the pucks but it could be the upper O rings between head and barrels, it could be that a retorque is all that's needed, be interesting to see how much torque is on the head nuts when you have at it.

Offline 1976cb750f836

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Re: Oil on top 3 fins of cylinder? Where is it from?
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2017, 02:39:59 PM »
If I try to measure when disassembling won't the reading be false because they kinda stick when Set?
Should I try to check them tightening,or LOOSENING?
All I have is an old 80s proto CLICKER.
I GUESS SET IT BOUT 2/3RDS OF SPECK AND SLOWLY go up 2 at a time till it moves instead of CLICKS?


Offline Nic

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Re: Oil on top 3 fins of cylinder? Where is it from?
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2017, 06:14:00 PM »
Just set your torque wrench to the required torque and tighten, don't loosen them first, just put some torque on them, if they are way loose like with say a cruisinimage gasket you will know right away. If they are way loose, torque them up in at least two stages, say 10ftlb first then up to spec 14/15 ftlb on stock studs.

Offline 1976cb750f836

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Re: Oil on top 3 fins of cylinder? Where is it from?
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2017, 06:09:37 AM »
Going wait till Christmas holidays to tear down,they might still be a few days to ride,I don't ride much when it's below 50-55 Degree?
I'm ordering the 6 pucks and hope that's all I Need?
Thanks all!