Topic: Rear wheel offset by a lot! **Problem Solved**

[JoeCooley]

Hey guys,

So my bike is partially stripped and I happened to notice that the rear wheel is offset by about 2 inches. 😲

It has 18×5.5 excel wheel on the back. I know I need to get rid of it in favor of a slimmer wheel and tire. This is something the previous owner did when building the bike. The bike rides fine. I would just like to fix it. The spacers appear to be stock. Im not sure really. What could be the cause of this? Mismatched hub and break parts? This is the 78 K8.

[BomberMann650]

The wide tire is not a bad look.  And can be a decent ride.

Were those excels rims laced to a stock hub?  Chances are whoever built the wheel paid no mind to the actual offset of the wheel.  Easy mistake.

[JoeCooley]

Yes stock hub. I love the look too. Im running into too many issues with the 170 tire and now this. Will a 160 rear fit this 5.5 wide wheel?

[BomberMann650]

Tire size won’t make a lick of difference with how off center the rim is in relation to the hub.

Who ever built that wheel obviously neglected a key detail; the hub (and entire wheel) are assymetrical.

That rim and tire are good.  Just needs to have its laces adjusted.  A LOT, and carefully.  By someone who knows the job.

[Yamahawk]

Hi Joe,
  Not sure why the fellow who laced the rime didn't center it, perhaps it was for a reason, but you could have a shop who specializes in re-spoking the wheel look at it and see if it can be re-centered. Locally here in Toledo, is a fellow who runs Homer's Cycle shop. Jim and his sister Sheila, are the best folks I have ever seen for truing and re-spoking wire wheels. Too bad you are in San Diego...
Now as far as spacers go, I don't believe that is the case, as the rear sprocket is aligned with the front, correct? As you have been riding it, and you could NOT ride it with 2" of sprocket misalignment. SO, I am pretty sure your spacers aren't the problem, otherwise you wouldn't keep a chain on the sprockets very long. But, your wheel don't look 2" out either, I guess you have measured it, and bringing it back 1" might center it back on the hub. It is easy to tighten up spokes with the rim off-center, or re-spoke it with the spokes incorrectly installed, so take it to a good wire wheel shop, or call Buchannen's Spoke guys and talk to them. I laced a rim once, and tightened it, using dial indicators to true the rim, and then took it to Jim at Homers to have him check it. He said I did a good job truing, but the spoke weren't NEAR tight enough. 20 minutes, and $20 and I was out the door lol.
Charlie

[rotortiller]

I see this was mentioned. Are the sprockets lined up?

[Yamahawk]

I see this was mentioned.

Hey guys,

So my bike is partially stripped and I happened to notice that the rear wheel is offset by about 2 inches. 😲

It has 18×5.5 excel wheel on the back. I know I need to get rid of it in favor of a slimmer wheel and tire. This is something the previous owner did when building the bike. The bike rides fine. I would just like to fix it. The spacers appear to be stock. Im not sure really. What could be the cause of this? Mismatched hub and break parts? This is the 78 K8.

I'm thinking the sprockets are aligned... otherwise it wouldn't be rideable with 2" offset.
Charlie

[JoeCooley]

Thanks for all the help so far guys. I have to take it all apart and see what exactly I have. The tire is too wide, thats a fact. This is causing problems with the rear brake stay. The rear spocket is offset. The chain looks pretty straight. It was probably put together this way to accommodate the 170 tire.

I think the cure for this is a 150 or 160 tire and having it relaced properly by a reputable shop. What would I tell a shop as far as offset specs? Im not sure any local places will just know the proper rim/hub offset to lace to.

[JoeCooley]

I might be exaggerating the offset a bit. Its quite a lot. The tire should be centered in the frame, and it is very noticeably not.

[540nova]

I might be exaggerating the offset a bit. Its quite a lot. The tire should be centered in the frame, and it is very noticeably not.

Any reputableshop with a dishing tool can put it right. It's simply a matter of loosening all the spokes on one side, tightening the spokes on the other side, to align the rim.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[BomberMann650]

That rim and tire are good.  Just needs to have its laces adjusted.  A LOT, and carefully.  By someone who knows the job.

I can not think of any means by which you could lace a rim 2" off center on a stock hub.

I can, because I’ve done it.  During my bicycle days.  A loosely laced wheel has a lot of side to side portability. 
Rear wheel offset has to be centered according to the axle.  I’m reasonably certain whoever made that wheel has it perfectly centered above the hub.  Which would yield that result. 
It’s hard to see everything from that photo.  But op states the sprocket is close to alignment.  And the rear brake rods rub.  Amateur job. 
But its okay, we can fix it, we have the technology!

[przjohn]

It is pretty simple to figure out if the rim is not centered on the hub. To my best knowledge there should be zero offset on any of these OEM SOHC Honda hubs. Take the wheel off the bike and remove the brake assembly and tire. Find the center of the outer part of the hub between the spokes and measure the distance to the outside of the brake drum using a straight edge. Now extend the straight edge across the drum to the rim. The distance from the straight edge to the center of the rim should be the same dimension as the distance from the edge of the drum to center of the hub.  If you find a big difference and don't feel comfortable with wheel building send it out to a Pro, but it really isn't that hard if you follow directions and have some patience.
 
I know that might not explain so here is a link with some pictures.


https://www.theridingobsession.com/motorcycle/maintenance/wheels/spoke-wheel-lacing-offset-runout/

[BomberMann650]

That rim and tire are good.  Just needs to have its laces adjusted.  A LOT, and carefully.  By someone who knows the job.

I can not think of any means by which you could lace a rim 2" off center on a stock hub.

I can, because I’ve done it.  During my bicycle days.  A loosely laced wheel has a lot of side to side portability. 
Rear wheel offset has to be centered according to the axle.  I’m reasonably certain whoever made that wheel has it perfectly centered above the hub.  Which would yield that result. 
It’s hard to see everything from that photo.  But op states the sprocket is close to alignment.  And the rear brake rods rub.  Amateur job. 
But its okay, we can fix it, we have the technology!

It is not possible to move a rim 2" without changing spoke lengths on the inners and outers, no matter what you maintain. The physical geometry of a spoke simply won't allow it. The OP did clarify that maybe its not 2", but with an offset spacer, and a rubbing tire on the brake rod, its simply the wrong hub spacers (either installed incorrectly side-side) or the incorrect ones for his hub and swing arm.
Since this modification was done by a PO, best he disassemble everything, dry fit and center the wheel, then install a tire. The tire's clearance to the brake arm and swing arm will dictate how much sprocket offset he needs.

I know you’ve built wheels.  So you know how floppy they are when loose.
An inexperienced builder can make this mistake easily.  Dramaticised by how wide the excel rim is.  Deep rim/tubeless setup, it’s a possibility the PO kept turning the screws on the left spokes and didn’t care how much thread is sticking through. 
At this point we’re testing Murphy to see which possibility possibly happened.

If przjohns memory is correct and rim centered over hub is correct.  Then i have part incorrect and OP’s wheel is still built wrong.

[754]

Jeez guys wish I had read this sooner..
 I bet there is a very large chance they offset laced it intentionally, because it's the only way , you can get something that wide in there.
 That said how did it ride, how bad did it pull to one side?
 How much ofvthat are you willing to put up with?

[JoeCooley]

Thanks for all the information guys! I will pull it all apart and check things. I deffinately need a slimmer tire. Im tired of having to be gentle on the rear brake as to not lock up the rear wheel. That damn doglegged brake stay and wide tire almost killed me in an emergency stop. So a 150 is safe on a 5.5 wheel?

Ride safe guys. 👍😎

[HondaMan]

Thanks for all the help so far guys. I have to take it all apart and see what exactly I have. The tire is too wide, thats a fact. This is causing problems with the rear brake stay. The rear spocket is offset. The chain looks pretty straight. It was probably put together this way to accommodate the 170 tire.

I think the cure for this is a 150 or 160 tire and having it relaced properly by a reputable shop. What would I tell a shop as far as offset specs? Im not sure any local places will just know the proper rim/hub offset to lace to.

I see the brake stay problem a lot on cafe'd bikes out here. The owner puts the wide tire on, then discovers it will not clear the arm, then just retrues the wheel off to the left to clear the arm. Instead, it is not hard to make your own offset block for the front pivot of the arm, and add a slight bow in the arm where it passes by the front of the rear tire, to make it all work again. Worst case, the bowed stay will add a bit of 'spring' or sponginess to the rear brake, but this presumes you hit it hard enough to notice, which will also lock the wheel!

[gschuld]

The tire and rim are offset to the left?  And you are not running an offset front sprocket?  Non offset front sprockets are flat plates, offset are dished, usually 3/8” or 10mm.

George

[JoeCooley]

Yes offset front and rear sprockets. Probably 10mm. I never measured it.
Im currently refreshing the carbs on my Jensen-Healey so it'll run and drive. Hopefully this weekend I will get a chance to pull the rear wheel off the K8. I will report my findings here.

[JoeCooley]

Here is an old picture from when I first got the bike. You can see the offset relative to the license plate (kinda).

[Yamahawk]

Here is an old picture from when I first got the bike. You can see the offset relative to the license plate (kinda).

Yeah, looking at the first picture you posted, and then this last one, I notice the angle of your camera is off center in both pics. I do notice that your chain is centered on the rear sprocket and looks like it is tracking well, teeth are not on one side of the chain rollers/side plates, and so your sprocket alignment is really good. As I look at the centerline of your bike, it doesn't appear to be that much offset, as you originally thought. Perhaps a 1/2-3/4", but certainly not 2". It might be an optical illusion, as they say, but it looks well set up actually. Now, as far as your brake rod, there is a cable actuated setup I saw somewhere that would get rid of that annoying bend in the rod.. actually, it will eliminate the rod completely, and all you have to do is route the cable, and attach a stay to it. That may be a good solution for your rear brake dilemma, and certainly would be less expensive than your rim being re-laced. Is the tire centered in your swing arm? What is the measurement from the front sides of the tire to the inside of the swing arm, are they equal, or is there more on one side than the other? If it isn't centered in the swing arm, that is what I would look for, and have the rim adjusted to reflect that evenly (with the spokes), and don't change spacers, etc.
I think I would get rid of the 170 series tire, and go with a 160, myself, though. I know with enough meditation and a couple beers, you will have the solution, lol.
Charlie

[JoeCooley]

Here is an old picture from when I first got the bike. You can see the offset relative to the license plate (kinda).

Yeah, looking at the first picture you posted, and then this last one, I notice the angle of your camera is off center in both pics. I do notice that your chain is centered on the rear sprocket and looks like it is tracking well, teeth are not on one side of the chain rollers/side plates, and so your sprocket alignment is really good. As I look at the centerline of your bike, it doesn't appear to be that much offset, as you originally thought. Perhaps a 1/2-3/4", but certainly not 2". It might be an optical illusion, as they say, but it looks well set up actually. Now, as far as your brake rod, there is a cable actuated setup I saw somewhere that would get rid of that annoying bend in the rod.. actually, it will eliminate the rod completely, and all you have to do is route the cable, and attach a stay to it. That may be a good solution for your rear brake dilemma, and certainly would be less expensive than your rim being re-laced. Is the tire centered in your swing arm? What is the measurement from the front sides of the tire to the inside of the swing arm, are they equal, or is there more on one side than the other? If it isn't centered in the swing arm, that is what I would look for, and have the rim adjusted to reflect that evenly (with the spokes), and don't change spacers, etc.
I think I would get rid of the 170 series tire, and go with a 160, myself, though. I know with enough meditation and a couple beers, you will have the solution, lol.
Charlie

Thank you for the information. The problem is the brake stay not the actuation rod. It has been bent to go around the 170 tire. Under hard braking it wants to be pulled straight. This causes it to contact the tire and cause a lock up.

[BomberMann650]

Would welding some extra material to the bent bar help stiffen it?

[Yamahawk]

[/quote]
Thank you for the information. The problem is the brake stay not the actuation rod. It has been bent to go around the 170 tire. Under hard braking it wants to be pulled straight. This causes it to contact the tire and cause a lock up.
[/quote]

OK! That makes sense. Would there be a way of extending the bolt on the ear of the hub, to get the stay out enough to keep it straight? I believe it comes off the front tab on the swing arm, and then back to the 'ear' off the brake hub. Now, looking at my stock rear ComStar, it occurs to me that the bend could be eliminated by a longer bolt and spacer shim on each end of the brake stay. Now, this may foul the rod that actuates the rear brake, so the cable replacement for the rod might also be a good option, getting rid of the solid rod, and making room for the shimmed brake stay. As long as you have clearance for the stay, it doesn't have to be bent into an offset. Can you post a picture of the right side of the rear end set up so we can see your brake stay/brake rod and pedal arrangement? It might help give you some opinions as to what needs to be changed and modified over there.
Oh, and remember to measure the side clearance on your swing arm, each side of the front of the wheel/tire, and let us know if it is well centered in the swing arm. I have confidence that it can be successfully modified!
Charlie

[rotortiller]

The two 77 750 Ks I have are stock and the back wheel appears shifted to the left slightly viewed from the rear (using fender and perfectly centered in bracket licence plate), however the two wheels are aligned as are the swing arm marks. If measured from the widest tire point to the swing arm at a most forward local, a larger left and a smaller right gap are evident contrary to optical views. Just a warning, if I were to center the forward tire edge within the swing arm fork making said gaps equal something not so pleasant might result while driving. as swing arm marks, wheel alignment, chain guard alignment, rear fender and chain alignment would be off. Be careful what you use for reference points as these old tanks are not symmetrical at certain common points, being different to other vintage and modern bikes.

[JoeCooley]

Ok guys, I have solved the problem. I really appreciate all the great information!. Its amazing that such a great group of people from all over the world can come together and share a love for these old bikes. If anyone is ever in San Diego, hit me up. I'll buy you a beer!

So I have something embarrassing to admit. The wheel is straight and true in the frame. Im just an idiot and forgot that I had removed the swing arm bolt... Apparently it had shifted over while sitting the stand.

I do need to fix the brake stay. So it's not all for nothing. I have a great idea how to fix that problem now. Haha

CHEERS! 🍻