Topic: 2 & 3 cylinders cold

[TwoTired]

Honda color codes use green for frame ground and battery Neg connection.
Black color codes are for switched 12V POS battery connection.
G/Y is for the stop light  and is only active when the brake switch is engaged.
The coils should be powered by a Bk/W wire.

Also check you StoP run Stop switch on the bars.

The way you describe your wire connections, you'd better check for blown fuses.


Cheers,

[KrombopulosRyan]

Shows what I know!

I'll switch the red wires to the Bk wire at the brake switch.
I've opted for connecting the red wires to another source of switched battery than the Bk/W wires as per the instructions.

Wow, I feel dumb.. I didn't catch that black is 12V switched.

I did check my fuses last night, none are blown. 15A fuse holder looks to have melted a bit at some point in it's life.
The entire harness isn't mint, but I've seen worse.

Thanks TwoTired. I'll make sure the red wires are going to the right spot and report back.. I have so much to learn.

[TwoTired]

Honda Color code red wires are direct battery unswitched 12V POS terminal connection.  A power use connection there will endure even with the Key switch off, draining the battery.

What red wires are you referring too?


A melted fuse holder is a sign of fuse clip overheating. Fuse clip oxidation introduces resistance and passing current through that resistance generate heat over and above what the fuse generates while passing current.  This is a reliability issue.  As, if enough heat is generated by both factors, the fuse melts even if you don't have an actual over current situation.  I've seen larger fuses installed that actually allowed the solder connection on the backside of the fuse holder to melt.  Both a blown main fuse and melted solder connections lead to total electrical failure for the bike, stranding you by the side of the road.
(Note:  You can't solder the terminals while installed in the stock fuse holder, as that will melt the plastic housing too, distorting it.)

I urge you to at least clean the fuse clips so their contact area is bright and shiny.  I use a metal polish or crocus cloth for this purpose.

Check for fuse clip heating by putting your thumb on the fuse while it is running and revved up a bit with lights on (raises system voltage and current draw).  It should be warm but not blister your thumb.  If you blister, you may need a new fuse box.   Usually if left so long that the plastic melts, the fuse clip no longer floats in the housing and won't allow the fuse to self align.  This reduces the fuse contact area and ALSO promotes higher resistance heating.

Cheers,

[KrombopulosRyan]

Sorry, I was bouncing back and forth between the harness and the pamco wire colors.

The red wires I'm referring too are coming from the pamco unit, those should be connected to either Bk/W at the coils or 12V switched at the brake switch.
That seems to be where I made my mistake connecting them to the wrong side of the brake switch.

Last night I took the fuse block off and tried my best to recenter the fuse holder it wouldn't budge, so I cleaned the contact surfaces restoring their luster and squeezed the clips together so it would hold the fuse just a little tighter. I verified continuity (and 12V) after reinstalling it and everything seems fine but will just get a new fuse block this weekend to get ahead of what will surely be an issue down the road. It should work to at least get the bike started and properly timed when I get home tonight and connect the ignition properly.

I'll need to completely go through the harness during the holiday break and see if I need to replace the entire thing or just patch up some trouble spots. If there is plastic melted on the main fuse holder, one of the POs must have had a bigger fuse in there at one point, if that is the case I should find some melted shielding on the harness somewhere too.

[KrombopulosRyan]

TwoTired you were right, as soon as I connected the red wires from the Pamco ignition to the Bk wire on the rear brake switch and the bike started right up!

This is incredibly helpful for a beginner, could have used it yesterday http://www.sohc4.net/honda-wiring-colors/

I timed the ignition and got it lined up right on the F mark while the bike idled at 1k. Something seemed a little off because when I rolled on the throttle up 5k the timing mark was short of the full advance marks. But it idled fine, wasn't missing, and seemed to idle a little smoother (probably more or less the same).

I resynced the carbs again, they were close, but I dialed them in and the idle smoothed out a little more.

It was time for a test ride! I go out for a ride and things seem alright, I'm happy with the way it's running. I make the 7 mile trip to Freddy's no problem.
On the 7 mile trip back everything seems fine, until I get to my exit. I notice that right before I was going to let off the throttle I'm already slowing down.
I pull in the clutch, let off the gas, and the bike petered out.

Dead, after a few minutes I got it to start but needed to give it a lot of gas to idle rough around 3k.
Battery measures 12.55V, I gotta poke around in the morning and see what I can find...

[Gene]

Damn. so close. Check your battery and charging again. Sounds like it (the battery) got discharged on the ride, for whatever reason. Let it sit, it'll kick over eventually, kinda like flooding. But there's another issue there that will come up again. Could be a connection, could be a bad battery, could be bad charging.

Just a thought, I'm no genius. But I'm guessing a battery pull from somewhere.

[TwoTired]

Dead, after a few minutes I got it to start but needed to give it a lot of gas to idle rough around 3k.
Battery measures 12.55V, I gotta poke around in the morning and see what I can find...

Glad you got it working and had a nice drive about.

Voltage measurements have more meaning when associated with the conditions under test...Like if it was under load, or a static measurement.

Not sure about your rough idle.   Could be low voltage to the coils.  Or, it could be spark plugs coated with soot.  Symptoms are similar.
Then there is fuel supply.  Tank full?   Need to switch to reserve?

Do be aware that the SOHC4 likes to rev.  You aren't doing it any favors driving it about at lowest RPM possible.  The charging system works better with RPMs over 2000, too.

Cheers,

[PeWe]

My bike fired up direct after I installed a Pamco.
I just wired it according to the Pamco diagram. I added Pamco black ground wires close to the coils, in the frame where I had scratched the paint off. I searched on this forum about Pamco installation and found some threads to be 100% doing things right. Rotor has marks to be lined up correctly to the advancer unit.

I fried my Pamco later on, probaby due to a coil issue on 2-3.

I use Dyna 5 ohm coils now with points + Hondaman module, here with additional ground wires. I think I read a thread where Hondaman recommended additional grounding to ensure a good working ignition.

[Deltarider]

I added additional ground wires at the coils fastened in the frame where I had scratched the paint off.

Why would you do that? Is that what the Pamco instructions say?

[PeWe]

I added additional ground wires at the coils fastened in the frame where I had scratched the paint off.

Why would you do that? Is that what the Pamco instructions say?

Hi Delta,  You are right.  I have not written that!!! 
My memory did not match the reality Good that you marked this so Pamco guys will not add extra wiring.

Not additional grounding with Pamco. It was the std frame connection as the Pamco instruction say about the 2 cable version I had:
1. Connect the red wires from both cables of the PAMCO to the black/white wire that comes from the kill switch. The black/white wire is still connected to the coil.
2. The black wire from both cables of the PAMCO is connected to the frame.
3. The green wire from one of the cables is connected to the 1 - 4 coil. (blue wire) (See #5 Above)
4. The green wire from the other cable is connected to the 2 - 3 coil (yellow wire) (See #5 above)

The additional grounding came later, I used same grounding point in frame. The photo with Pamco with wiring above is the black thin Pamco wires. 2 cable version, one for each coil with 2 black wires attached to frame close to coils.

I checked my photos of the Dyna-S with green Dyna coils that I installed later, no grounds there.  Points and Hondaman ignition when it got additional grounds for coils in frame beside the coils. Dyna coils has a different design for bolting them into the frame.

Here fresh ground wire when Hondaman ign moved in over 3 years ago.... time just fly away..

[KrombopulosRyan]

Voltage measurements have more meaning when associated with the conditions under test...Like if it was under load, or a static measurement.

Gotcha. Also, on my test rides I make sure to get the RPMs up 

I get out to the bike this morning and gas under the bike, coming from the #1 carb. I take the tank off and notice that nothing is coming out of the petcock, tank is light, must have leaked almost 1/4 tank of gas. Set the petcock to reserve and the flow is slow, shake the tank and it really starts flowing. My tank must need a good cleaning, will have to do that tomorrow. Got the carbs off and took a look at the float valve, seems fine. Take a look at the float level, 22mm. I notice the spring on #1's float valve is more firm than the other 3. (Read in a couple threads these 4into1.com float valves give people problems. Last time I set the float levels, it was right as the gasket surface. I adjusted each to 24mm, and put it all back together.

Perfecto! A couple millimeters below the gasket surface.

I go to connect my fuel lines and things are tight (and rigid) so much so that my fuel filter snaps. I go to the store get some new line and filters, come to find out I had 5/32 or something similar size line. Hence why things were too tight. Got some MotionPro 1/4" line.

Connected everything and it started right up, last night was definitely fuel (dummy). I take it out for a short test ride, at first wow! Perfect, can crack on the throttle and let off, no backfires, pull in the clutch drops down to idle as I'd expect. Towards the end of my 5-10 minute ride, I notice the RPMs aren't falling back to idle, they sit at about 2k for a couple seconds and then drops very slowly. Gotta gather some more information and maybe look at the plugs again. I feel like it's close, but something isn't quite right.

Also, in the picture the levels hadn't quite settled yet, I wanted to leak as little gas as possible. After I got the tube on #3 to stop leaking, each carb was at the same level between 2-3mm below the gasket surface.

[KrombopulosRyan]

So I found out everytime I was tightening the carb sync screws/nuts that I was messing up my adjustments. So I finally got them all dialed together and verified after everything was tightened down. All in sync.

I take it out for a test ride, I hop on the closest freeway entrance and get off on the first exit. As I pull up to the stoplight it dies. I manage to get it started and it's running pretty poorly, I get about a mile down the street and the only way the bike feels normal is when I'm accelerating until I hit a red light and it dies. Can't get it started. Had to push it the mile or so home.

Any ideas?

[TwoTired]

Engines need and air fuel mixture, compression, and spark properly timed to run.  What are you missing?

Spark plug tips/insulator deposits, can tell you what sort of combustion conditions you had at last run time.

Verified spark by laying the connected plug on the engine and looking at the electrodes?

You already reported fuel starvation from the tank.  Is that reoccurring?

Measured battery voltage, while engine is cranking?

Have you check the items on the routine 3k miles checklist?

Air filter dirty?

[KrombopulosRyan]

So after I cooled down and consulted the forum search tool, my symptoms right before it died seemed like it leaning out to the point of dying. Found on a thread where some guy says he flipped his petcock valve from "ON" to "RES" and the fuel started to flow. So I go try to start my bike, nothing. Flip the valve to RES and boom, starts right up!

I think I have some stuff floating around in my tank clogging up my petcock valve intermittently. On my last bike ('76 CB360) I opted for an apple cider vinegar rinse and was happy with the results. I've also seen a lot of stuff about Kreem and Red Kote, any suggestions?

[ekpent]

 Also check your oil in the crankcase for gas contamination. If you lost a 1/4 tank of gas and it all was not on the floor from a leaking carb needle jet then some of it may have gone into the engine