Topic: CB400F project, where to start?

[strynboen]

yes its a time and Money eating ,,vho can give a procjekt a hard time
..if it not are taken as a first prioety to the engine .
..the most expensive part/time killer of a procjekt..specily on a 400 four...i have still some engine issues..after have my 400 four for 3 years..
.and got almost all other stuff done..must go in the engine once more..to fix the cam thain tensioner from inside this time..
vish i had taken the time to do the engine right first time.....

[Alaxy Galaxy]

Strynboen is correct about the cam chain tensioner; mine was seized at the pivot point in the upper case from sitting.
You should be able to confirm it's movement by removing the blade from the block and reaching forward through the oil pan opening.

I like that idea of looking from the bottom to see if if it's free or not. To take the rear slipper out, it's just a matter of gently removing the rear two bolts, right? My camchain tensioner bolts have certainly been fudged with. The top bolt has been replaced by what appears to be an engine-side clutch adjuster filled with silicone... Is there a reason the bottom one has two different threads? What does the smaller thread go into, exactly?



Also, how salvageable is this cam? Can I change the cam without changing the cam gear?

[MoMo]

That head needs to be taken off, disassembled, cleaned and inspected.  Looks like it sat with water for quite some time...larry

[strynboen]

..if there vas vater in the cam areia..it have also run dovn in the oil sump..so off vith it to thek aut

[Bodi]

The tensioner adjuster has benn buggered with. The long bolt should just be a cap, sealing off the hole where the plunger goes with its tensioning springs.
The one that looks like a cap should be a special locking bolt and nut. This has two threads - 6mm at the tip that screws into the case pushing against the plunger to lock it in position, and 8mm near the head just for the locking nut to keep it from loosening.
Nothing comes out from these holes.
The slides come out from the head, yes one is retained by the two bolt piece with a rubber insert.
The adjuster is held in the main case, they must be split to get at it.

[Alaxy Galaxy]

So, Santa came early yesterday!

Actually, I drove to the US of A to pick up some much-needed parts to get my rolling chassis going. Now for some cleaning, painting, and on to the next step!

[spuds]

Hey there!

Montreal eh?   I'm just up (?) / down (?) the road in Ottawa.

Intimidating looking project you have there!!   Would be way out of my comfort zone.

I'm also cleaning up / slightly modifying a 400F ( a '75) ....and will likely have some parts that I won't end up using, so might be able to help ya out!     

I have this sitting in boxes....:

forks
top/bottom triples
clocks
all lighting
headlight bracket bits
stock rider footpegs/controls
rear inner fender
fenders (would need some tlc...)
seat foam (it's all there, no reference point though to know if it's usable)
seat pan (would need some tlc)
swing arm/rear axle bits
complete front wheel w/rotor/caliper, axle, etc with a tire installed
rear rim (and spokes but they need some tlc...)
rear tire (uninstalled)
and eventually, the oem shocks

Tires are from the 90's and so are way past their best before dates, but might help ya get to a roller.

[Alaxy Galaxy]

Thanks!

I'm actually pretty far along in my roller. Unfortunately, the rear rim I got is a 16" from an '80s CM450. Fortunately, I sourced a fantastic rim from a CB350 of unknown year and the right brake panel. That list of yours is pretty tempting...

Of that, there are a few things I need to source:

-RH 75-76 rider footpeg
-speedo gearbox drive, o-ring and retainer (bolted on to the front hub)
-rear tire (and tube and rim tape)

I'm on the fence about the clocks and seat bits, as my '77 clocks are in great shape, but the speedo has the 77-only km/h marks in green inside the mph marks. Useful, but not as pretty. As for the seat, I think a reproduction can be had for cheap enough, which would avoid me developing some upholstering skills.

Getting there...

[Alaxy Galaxy]

Santa was nice to me this year!

(Not too bad a haul for 60$!)

On that note, anyone know how to remove blemishing from an aluminium brake plate? Hah.

[FuZZie]

anyone know how to remove blemishing from an aluminium brake plate? Hah.

looks like the coating is way past it's best before date any peeled off?

[Yamahawk]

Santa was nice to me this year!

(Not too bad a haul for 60$!)

On that note, anyone know how to remove blemishing from an aluminium brake plate? Hah.

It's really difficult to get into the corners of a lip like the flanges on the backing plate you have. The rest should polish up nicely. The clear coat is hard to remove without mechanical sanding or chemical stripping, but I have used an 8" stitched wheel and rouge on parts like that, and it takes off the clear eventually. But, for those hard to reach areas in the corners of the ridges, you may want to use 600grit wet/dry paper, and then polish with Lucas Metal polish or something similar. It will be a nice project for sure! I bought an 8" bench grinder for just such a project, polishing aluminum side covers, etc. and it work pretty well.
Charlie

[spuds]

Certainly well along the rebuild path!

Lemme know if you end up wanting to peek at any of those bits.   I've got some purchases lined up on the horizon too, to turning any of these parts into cash will help.

I wouldn't be looking for big $....and we're so close geographically that shipping costs will be negligible (I gotta head out to Limoges some time in the coming weeks to pick up a few bits....so maybe could met you halfway between Ottawa/Montreal or sumthin').

[Alaxy Galaxy]

Santa was nice to me this year!

(Not too bad a haul for 60$!)

On that note, anyone know how to remove blemishing from an aluminium brake plate? Hah.

It's really difficult to get into the corners of a lip like the flanges on the backing plate you have. The rest should polish up nicely. The clear coat is hard to remove without mechanical sanding or chemical stripping, but I have used an 8" stitched wheel and rouge on parts like that, and it takes off the clear eventually. But, for those hard to reach areas in the corners of the ridges, you may want to use 600grit wet/dry paper, and then polish with Lucas Metal polish or something similar. It will be a nice project for sure! I bought an 8" bench grinder for just such a project, polishing aluminum side covers, etc. and it work pretty well.
Charlie

I may just leave it slightly blemished. The (nice) fellow who sold me the brake panel and pedal etc. had a "totally restored" red 75 400F and it looked... awkward. The frame was powdercoated, all the aluminium was polished, the tins were freshly painted, a lot of the parts were new etc. BUT. There was still a whole lot of older bits such as the horn, switchgear, the rear shocks, seat, etc. It made me realise that it's a downward spiral to restore one to as-new spec. Where every nut and bolt has to be re-zinced or purchased.

I have neither the funds or the desire to go down that route. I am quite humbled by those who do, however.

[Stev-o]

Santa was nice to me this year!

(Not too bad a haul for 60$!)

On that note, anyone know how to remove blemishing from an aluminium brake plate? Hah.

It's really difficult to get into the corners of a lip like the flanges on the backing plate you have. The rest should polish up nicely. The clear coat is hard to remove without mechanical sanding or chemical stripping, but I have used an 8" stitched wheel and rouge on parts like that, and it takes off the clear eventually. But, for those hard to reach areas in the corners of the ridges, you may want to use 600grit wet/dry paper, and then polish with Lucas Metal polish or something similar. It will be a nice project for sure! I bought an 8" bench grinder for just such a project, polishing aluminum side covers, etc. and it work pretty well.
Charlie

I may just leave it slightly blemished. The (nice) fellow who sold me the brake panel and pedal etc. had a "totally restored" red 75 400F and it looked... awkward. The frame was powdercoated, all the aluminium was polished, the tins were freshly painted, a lot of the parts were new etc. BUT. There was still a whole lot of older bits such as the horn, switchgear, the rear shocks, seat, etc. It made me realise that it's a downward spiral to restore one to as-new spec. Where every nut and bolt has to be re-zinced or purchased.

I have neither the funds or the desire to go down that route. I am quite humbled by those who do, however.

There are different routes to take when restoring a bike, I have done em at least a couple ways. 

My "Patina Bike" was not polished or painted, just cleaned.   On the other hand, my "Park Racer" had nearly every part replaced, painted or polished and I easily spent several thousand dollars on it. 

Both projects resulted in same results, nice roadworthy bikes that were fun to ride and proud to have. 

[RAFster122s]

Castrol Super Clean can break through and remove any clear coat.  Rinse very well and nylon brush scrubbing.  Recommend you give it a nice sanding with 600 wet and dry and then start polishing with the buffing wheels, different buff for each color, mark the color on the buff wheel's side.  You should buff out any scratches left by the sandpaper. The plate will look better with each step in the color as you go from a brown to red rouge to white.  The white will give it a high luster.  Good lighting should help.  If your buff has trouble fitting in a groove a smaller wheel can sometimes get int smaller areas.  If you find any scratches then start again in those areas.  You have to develop heat in the part being buffed for it to work well, so a pair of gloves is advised.  Definitely do not buff without wearing a at least a dust mask if not a respirator.  I recommend using a safety shield or eye protection.  The  object you are buffing needs to be held tightly.  It can be ripped out of your hands and flung away at pretty good velocity.  If it does, you will need to sand or buff out any marks where it hits something.  It will be pulled from your grasp most likely, just be prepared and do not get hurt by it.

[MoMo]

FWIW  the rear brake panel was never polished....Larry

[Alaxy Galaxy]

Thank you for your buffing tutorial Raf, it's much appreciated.

FWIW  the rear brake panel was never polished....Larry

Do you know of a way to get a stock look from it? Was it painted or just left kinda dull and clear-coated?

[MoMo]

I believe it was merely clear coated.  Very rarely did Honda go to the expense of polishing

[setdog]

Use the manual index to create your project outline
think of each area as a system.

tech specs,
engine system
clutch system
ignition system
charging system
starting stystem
steering system
suspension (front and rear) system
wheels
brakes
body
oil tank
air cleaner
exhaust
electrical

you get the idea

[Alaxy Galaxy]

I believe it was merely clear coated.  Very rarely did Honda go to the expense of polishing

How would one go about getting the aluminium close to its stock, dull finish prior to clear coating? I have access to a sandblaster (no other media available), but I'm afraid that might be too aggressive.

[strynboen]

no problem GLASS.. blast Things..and then use a polish disc after that..direkt....if you use the fine glass..mine engine parts vas all blasted..posished the upper parts..and let finns head.. and cylender stand blasted..just gave it some wd 40 to hold it a bit oiled..but not so it suck dirt...just for korosion protektion.

.its just a krazy job to klean all up after the blast..

[Alaxy Galaxy]

Fantastic OEM headers, thanks to a member right here on SOHC4!



I also have a (cheap!) well used tank coming in next week.

[Alaxy Galaxy]

Well, it pains me to do this, but I think it's the cheapest way to do it.

I've got a pretty good LH '77 antares red sidecover, but I want the look of a '76 Parakeet yellow bike. I was going to offer it up for sale for someone who needs it, but at the price the '77 sidecovers are going, I don't even think I could afford a repro cover in exchange. So, unfortunately, I'm going to sand it down and paint it black. As you can see, my RH matching cover was pretty shot.



I also found pictures of my 2nd CB400F online from the folks who bought it in 2009 (I cropped the image to keep the lady anonymous). It was a '77 that I disguised as a blue '75. I swapped out the pegs and foot controls, the handlebars and the tank+sidecovers. My paypal history tells me that I had paid a whopping $95 US for that tank (you can't tell from the picture, but it was in perfect shape)... Those were the days, eh? If you look closely, you can see the 77-only single fender stay along with the 77-only header collars... I musta missed those Clock faces were '77 Canadian too (with mph along with km/h markings).

[Flyin900]

Alex, contact me if you want a little insight into polishing as I have two polishing machines and I  would use the glass bead (Princess Auto a 50 lb bag usually $10.00 on sale) as suggested to strip the clear. Second option is Canadian Tire has an aerosol  chemical stripper (Dominion Sure Seal brand I think) in the automotive spray paint section, works well and no damage to the aluminum.
You do have some issues with the motor tensioner adjuster and 4 into 1 has an adjuster bolt that fits into the top section of the engine case and replaces the Honda lock bolt if yours is messed up.

[Alaxy Galaxy]

Alex, contact me if you want a little insight into polishing as I have two polishing machines and I  would use the glass bead (Princess Auto a 50 lb bag usually $10.00 on sale) as suggested to strip the clear. Second option is Canadian Tire has an aerosol  chemical stripper (Dominion Sure Seal brand I think) in the automotive spray paint section, works well and no damage to the aluminum.
You do have some issues with the motor tensioner adjuster and 4 into 1 has an adjuster bolt that fits into the top section of the engine case and replaces the Honda lock bolt if yours is messed up.

Thanks Flyin900, much appreciated.

As for the camchain tensioner, I've got that mostly sorted. I've got a top adjuster, but the front hole has been badly over-tapped and I'm afraid I won't be able to get a good seal to keep the oil out. I won't know that until I start the engine up this Spring/Summer, though. I was thinking of getting a shop to helicoil a smaller thread in there, but I'm worried about getting aluminium shards in the crank case.

I've got the brake panel where I want it for now, so I'm fine. I'm pretty far along right with the bike, actually. Just not too good with taking pictures.

Actually, does anyone in or around Montreal have a drop of Raybestos, Wilwood or McKay brake assembly fluid? I just need to lube my seal so I can push the piston in.