Topic: Isotropic surface finishing aka super finishing - anyone doing it?

[slikwilli420]

I've been following Brent Hyde (Captain) on Facebook as well as JES BUILT and super finishing gets mentioned a lot for their engine components, particularly transmissions and valve train. Anyone out there dabbling in this or have a place to recommend? The idea of freeing up horsepower for a relatively low cost is highly appealing.

[slikwilli420]

I was back to researching this again as my bike budget has recently seen a nice injection of fundage and have sent some emails out for quotes. Has anyone else done this to a SOHC trans?

[simon#42]

just how much power do you think you are going to gain?

[slikwilli420]

Not just about power gain, but how smooth things work and slide against each other. Actual gains will likely be immeasurable but rather felt in terms of smoother/faster shifts. Reduction in friction in any part of racing (besides tires) is good policy. This is a common, proven process in many motorsports, no reason not to apply it here.

[kmb69]

Yep, Brent uses it on nearly everything in their DOHC. Almost 200hp!

[slikwilli420]

Yep, Brent uses it on nearly everything in their DOHC. Almost 200hp!

That is where I first saw the finish and it got me thinking. I probably wouldn't take the time on a street build but on a racer that is power shifting at 10,000 its worth it. Im just a club racer and the building is part of the fun to me. I may well never win a race in my life, but putting together something special has always motivated me.

[crazypj]

..................... the building is part of the fun to me. I may well never win a race in my life, but putting together something special has always motivated me.

Good enough reason for me. 
 I wouldn't throw cash at it though, gym membership may be money better spent if you can't DIY it?

Yep, Brent uses it on nearly everything in their DOHC. Almost 200hp!

Interesting, what capacity? (if it goes by Harley standards it would be 5 litre  )

[slikwilli420]

Already working toward a 56lb weight loss goal. By the race season start I plan to be a 75lb bike plus rider package.

[Sam Green Racing]

Not just about power gain, but how smooth things work and slide against each other. Actual gains will likely be immeasurable but rather felt in terms of smoother/faster shifts. Reduction in friction in any part of racing (besides tires) is good policy. This is a common, proven process in many motorsports, no reason not to apply it here.

If you want smoother, faster shifts without missing a gear or having it jump out, get the box undercut/backcut, Jay at APE can do this for you.

[crazypj]

Already working toward a 56lb weight loss goal. By the race season start I plan to be a 75lb bike plus rider package.

Cool but I think you left a number out, I couldn't get that light on my mountain bike

[slikwilli420]

Not just about power gain, but how smooth things work and slide against each other. Actual gains will likely be immeasurable but rather felt in terms of smoother/faster shifts. Reduction in friction in any part of racing (besides tires) is good policy. This is a common, proven process in many motorsports, no reason not to apply it here.

If you want smoother, faster shifts without missing a gear or having it jump out, get the box undercut/backcut, Jay at APE can do this for you.

That only keeps it from jumping out of gear and that will be done before the super finishing process.

[slikwilli420]

Already working toward a 56lb weight loss goal. By the race season start I plan to be a 75lb bike plus rider package.

Cool but I think you left a number out, I couldn't get that light on my mountain bike

75lb lighter between me and the bike. I reread my post and that wasn't clear.

[crazypj]

LOL, yep you it made it sound like total weight would be 75lbs 
Should be possible to drop bike stock weight by about 150lbs without spending more than it's worth
Just fitting 6061 alloy wheel / bearing spacers saves around 2lbs

[slikwilli420]

Bike is 393 right now with 4 gallons of gas. Shooting to lose another 20-30 by the season opener.

[crazypj]

I think you lose almost 6 oz by drilling a 1/4" dia hole through axle.
 Front is dead easy to do but rear is easier to find something from mid 90's  'sport-bike', either swing arm pivot or axle.
 I have various 'weight loss' on XL spreadsheet 'somewhere safe'
From memory,  2mm overbore' lightens' block by more than half a pound.
It's all relatively simple stuff that takes time but minimal resources if you have a mini mill and mini lathe ( it's just faster to do with larger machines plus set-up's don't get so 'creative'  )

[slikwilli420]

I think you lose almost 6 oz by drilling a 1/4" dia hole through axle.
 Front is dead easy to do but rear is easier to find something from mid 90's  'sport-bike', either swing arm pivot or axle.
 I have various 'weight loss' on XL spreadsheet 'somewhere safe'
From memory,  2mm overbore' lightens' block by more than half a pound.
It's all relatively simple stuff that takes time but minimal resources if you have a mini mill and mini lathe ( it's just faster to do with larger machines plus set-up's don't get so 'creative'  )

Very interested in your list if you're willing to send it along.

[bwaller]

Matt, have you settled on a company to do this work? I sent out a couple requests for pricing and "crickets" so far.

[slikwilli420]

Nothing yet. I need to keep sending requests and see what happens. I heard back from one place that does stuff for airlines and all he said was you won't like our prices.

[bwaller]

Sent a PM.

[slikwilli420]

I will be trying a place with my full transmission soon. In the meantime, a little light reading:

http://www.racedevelopments.co.uk/assets/documents/suzuki_gsxr1000_k1/superfinish.pdf

[simon#42]

dont expect to much from this , i have never seen any gains in power on the dyno or have felt any improvement in gear changing with this treatment at all
i did think it might make the gears last a bit longer but again there was no change . the selector forks did wear a bit faster though .
it wont do much harm but in terms of price to performance gain its a waste of time 

[slikwilli420]

Im very confident to the contrary on all your assumptions. This process has been proven by NASA and others to extend the life of parts, keep oil cleaner, make sliding assemblies move easier which reduces friction, therefore getting more power to the ground. I have seen reports of 2-3hp gained on a 600cc sportbike. Making parts work easier together is a recipe for reliability and improved efficiency. I don't see any way this cannot work. Yoshimura offers this service and it is in use on all their supported bikes, which is enough for me to try.

[simon#42]

yoshimura was one of the brands we tested .

[slikwilli420]

yoshimura was one of the brands we tested .

Not that I outright don't believe you, but it is odd that there are MANY accounts from people who have done this and felt smoother shifts, observed cleaner oil, and have dyno tested with measurable (though small) gains on power. I like data from all sources, convince me this isn't worth doing.

[simon#42]

im not telling you not to do it , but you were looking for advice so i gave mine .
i have run treated and untreated gearboxes back to back on the dyno with no measurable differences in power  [ with a cassette gearbox there is no need to change the engine  ] 
the team i was testing them for used to use the  finishing but after tests stopped with no noticeable change to reliability or ease of shifting .

were is the back to back scientific data from the people selling this treatment ?    2-3 hp on a 600 and a bit more on a 1000 is hardly scientific . ask them for there test data and see
how quick they put the phone down