Topic: cb750 increasing alternator output voltage a low RPM

[Yamahawk]

The desulphator mention was just as an example of resonance and circuitry used on lead acid batteries. The actual idea of resonance on a lead acid battery was to excite and 'ring' the electrolyte to fool the battery into being 'charged' and do its thing for creation of voltage potential, while pulling a load. This would be in concert with a DC motor, not in an application like we are discussing for the field excited alternator on our bikes.
Free energy generators have been pooh pooh'd for long time. There was a fellow in Grove City Ohio, who made an oxygen/hydrogen generator using resonant frequencies pulsed into the water molecule, was given three unconditional patents, and then never got any backing to produce a viable energy supply from water. But, he did run a 318 Dodge V8 at the 1994 Detroit auto show on his fuel gas... the point being that resonance is real, and can be used in different ways to produce an energy that otherwise wouldn't be there. Once the reaction started, he could keep it going with microamps of current, at the 30v used to pulse the water. Quite interesting, his last name was Meyers, and the patents are still in the U.S. Patent database.... but, again I digress.
Charlie

[TwoTired]

The desulphator mention was just as an example of resonance and circuitry used on lead acid batteries. The actual idea of resonance on a lead acid battery was to excite and 'ring' the electrolyte to fool the battery into being 'charged' and do its thing for creation of voltage potential, while pulling a load. This would be in concert with a DC motor, not in an application like we are discussing for the field excited alternator on our bikes.

I reiterate that unless you have access to each and every plate in a battery, you can't excite the plates or the electrolyte with a driver circuit.  Our series connected batteries don't have that access.  And the end cells insulate the inner cells from any driver circuit outside the battery enclosure from frequency effects.  The higher the frequency the more the battery cell behaves as a brick wall for passing frequencies.  The rise times of pulses have a frequency component.  The faster the rise time the higher the frequency component.  Driving a capacitance with a fast rise time signal has the effect of flattening the rise time, changing its frequency component lower.  This fundamentally changes the characteristics of the introduced signal.  The inner cells of our batteries are insulated with two preceding cells.  Series connected capacitors have and additive effect on capacitance value.

I remain highly skeptical and unconvinced.

But, have fun with your experiments!

Cheers,

[fireman1073]

inadvertently i used 76 750a charging parts on my 75k and it charges at idle with the light on

i will do a video with it running and a volt meter connected

i am not sure which parts i used as i picked the cleanest looking stuff from both bikes including the stator cover and some maybe all of the internals

i assumed all the parts were the same on initial inspection, so i did not inspect closely

it wasn't until i read this post and seen my charging system performance that i began to suspect what i had done

Steve

[HondaMan]

Now, I expect a little bit of skepticism in this, but the study of resonant frequencies is most amazing, and what they can do. This is but one example! You can do it with a 555 timer circuit also...
Charlie

I find there is good reason for skepticism.  Applying frequencies to a battery for desulphation, and for that matter any resonance technique, can only apply to one or perhaps two cell batteries.  Any pulses applied to the battery are damped greatly by the capacitive action of the battery plates.  Resonance relies on the capacitance value (frequency, Induction, and resistance, too).  A six celled battery has the cells arranged in series. To get frequencies or quick rise time pulses to the inner cells, the resonance frequencies or pulses must pass through the outer cell's huge capacitive value, which will alter the frequency profile significantly outside of resonance.  Therefore, the inner cells have no hope of receiving an applied resonance or desulphation pulse.  Only plates that are in direct connection with the driving circuit have any hope of experiencing a resonant or pulse benefit.

I believe battery chargers that promote sales using desulphation circuitry are just razzle dazzle to beguile prospective buyers.  These chargers will still charge a battery by presenting a potential voltage difference to the cells.  Pulses are fine as the battery will just average out the presented pulses.  But, significant desulphation?  Better hope all your major sulphation is in the outermost cells.  The inner cells will exhibit some desulphation each time a simple DC potential applied to them, as long as they can pass any sort of current.  That is a basic function of the battery chemistry.  Getting fast rise time pulses, or resonance to the inner cells without special connection construction of the battery, just isn't physically or electrically possible.

Food for thought...

Cheers,

Hey, TT: remember the famous 1970s battery chargers that would "revive your sulphated battery"? I tore one apart once to see what was inside (after it quit working). They had a half-wave rectified 18 volt circuit inside (for the charging part, 6 amps) with a diode and capacitor "spike generator" built on the other half of the transformer winding, which generated an additional 18v negative spike of short duration. Negative! I suppose the idea was to try to knock the sulphate off the plates? They actually worked up to a point, but the broken part inside was a shorted diode, probably from encountering a fully-shorted battery... ?

[FuZZie]

Free energy generators have been pooh pooh'd for long time. There was a fellow in Grove City Ohio, who made an oxygen/hydrogen generator using resonant frequencies pulsed into the water molecule, was given three unconditional patents, and then never got any backing to produce a viable energy supply from water. But, he did run a 318 Dodge V8 at the 1994 Detroit auto show on his fuel gas... the point being that resonance is real, and can be used in different ways to produce an energy that otherwise wouldn't be there. Once the reaction started, he could keep it going with microamps of current, at the 30v used to pulse the water. Quite interesting, his last name was Meyers, and the patents are still in the U.S. Patent database.... but, again I digress.
Charlie

I remember correctly Stanley Meyers didn't get backing because it wasn't economically viable yet. Unless you Unless you found something I didn't see yet? 

[Yamahawk]

Free energy generators have been pooh pooh'd for long time. There was a fellow in Grove City Ohio, who made an oxygen/hydrogen generator using resonant frequencies pulsed into the water molecule, was given three unconditional patents, and then never got any backing to produce a viable energy supply from water. But, he did run a 318 Dodge V8 at the 1994 Detroit auto show on his fuel gas... the point being that resonance is real, and can be used in different ways to produce an energy that otherwise wouldn't be there. Once the reaction started, he could keep it going with microamps of current, at the 30v used to pulse the water. Quite interesting, his last name was Meyers, and the patents are still in the U.S. Patent database.... but, again I digress.
Charlie

I remember correctly Stanley Meyers didn't get backing because it wasn't economically viable yet. Unless you Unless you found something I didn't see yet?

Yep, Stan Meyers had 4 unconditional patents given by the U.S.Patent office for the separation of water into hydrogen oxygen fuel gases. By dilution with nitrogen, he could mimic the burn rate of ANY fuel. One of his patents used the +1 valence of the hydrogen ion passed through a coil od non-conductive tubing wrapped with coils of magnet wire... every set of coils generated electric, and as you accumulated voltage, it would add up quickly. Quite the fellow he was...
Now, his fuel gas generator works on the principles of resonance. Water will ring like glass to a tuning fork at a certain pulse rate, and when that is reached, it breaks the covalent bond, and the gases freely bubble off as the water level decreases... now, the 30v and 8 amps it takes to start the reaction can be reduced to milliamps of pulse, after the reaction starts, which then becomes economical to produce, unlike the brute force method that was being used up till then. He used concentric stainless .068 wall tubing, shimmed to a 5mm gap between the inner and outer tubing, and immersed in water, created a sort of water 'capacitor', hooking up positive and negative respectively to the inner and outer tubes, which were arranged in bundles of about 12 tubes each.  This was very simple building materials, and could be duplicated by anyone with his Patent. He died a not too normal death, if I remember right. Anyway, there would be a huge market for home hydrogen oxygen generators if someone wanted to risk building one lol...pipe it into your natural gas furnace, and free heat with only water vapor as the waste product... which could then be heat exchanged and re-used... 
Oh, and the economically viable part was that the oil companies didn't want to be put out of business yet...
Charlie

[HondaMan]

Free energy generators have been pooh pooh'd for long time. There was a fellow in Grove City Ohio, who made an oxygen/hydrogen generator using resonant frequencies pulsed into the water molecule, was given three unconditional patents, and then never got any backing to produce a viable energy supply from water. But, he did run a 318 Dodge V8 at the 1994 Detroit auto show on his fuel gas... the point being that resonance is real, and can be used in different ways to produce an energy that otherwise wouldn't be there. Once the reaction started, he could keep it going with microamps of current, at the 30v used to pulse the water. Quite interesting, his last name was Meyers, and the patents are still in the U.S. Patent database.... but, again I digress.
Charlie

I remember correctly Stanley Meyers didn't get backing because it wasn't economically viable yet. Unless you Unless you found something I didn't see yet?

Yep, Stan Meyers had 4 unconditional patents given by the U.S.Patent office for the separation of water into hydrogen oxygen fuel gases. By dilution with nitrogen, he could mimic the burn rate of ANY fuel. One of his patents used the +1 valence of the hydrogen ion passed through a coil od non-conductive tubing wrapped with coils of magnet wire... every set of coils generated electric, and as you accumulated voltage, it would add up quickly. Quite the fellow he was...
Now, his fuel gas generator works on the principles of resonance. Water will ring like glass to a tuning fork at a certain pulse rate, and when that is reached, it breaks the covalent bond, and the gases freely bubble off as the water level decreases... now, the 30v and 8 amps it takes to start the reaction can be reduced to milliamps of pulse, after the reaction starts, which then becomes economical to produce, unlike the brute force method that was being used up till then. He used concentric stainless .068 wall tubing, shimmed to a 5mm gap between the inner and outer tubing, and immersed in water, created a sort of water 'capacitor', hooking up positive and negative respectively to the inner and outer tubes, which were arranged in bundles of about 12 tubes each.  This was very simple building materials, and could be duplicated by anyone with his Patent. He died a not too normal death, if I remember right. Anyway, there would be a huge market for home hydrogen oxygen generators if someone wanted to risk building one lol...pipe it into your natural gas furnace, and free heat with only water vapor as the waste product... which could then be heat exchanged and re-used... 
Oh, and the economically viable part was that the oil companies didn't want to be put out of business yet...
Charlie

I just finished a job (as a hired-gun Controls Engineer) in November-December last year, programming some process skids that take CO2 and turn it into other 'stuff' like methanol, DME, and acetic acid. The X-prize judges came thru and judged it, too: they will probably win the prize in that contest. The one fly in their ointment is: they need a steady supply of hydrogen and electricity (the latter for heating unless the reactor is scaled up enough to self-sustain), and it requires water to create some oxygen for the process. This makes me wonder if Mr. Meyers' creation might scale up to the energy needed? Hmmm...

[Yamahawk]

Now we are talking... and sorry about the thread jack, but it IS most interesting... The patents should still be available, don't know whoo owns them now, as he died, and whether they have been renewed after the 25 year expiration. His 4th patent has to do with electric production from the Hydrogen ion, which has a +1v valence... pumped through a coil of non conductive tubing, with windings of magnet wire around the coils of tube, series the coils for additive voltage, and you have electrical production the same way as passing a magnet bar end into a coil of wire... the process was free electric, as the hydrogen never loses its +1 until it reacts by burning or another chemical reaction. using convection in the coil, it can be made to circulate without a pump.
Charlie

[FuZZie]

Been googling, looks like his patents started falling into the public domain in 2007.

Aftermath

Meyer's patents have expired. His inventions are now in the public domain, available for all to use without restriction or royalty payment.[13] Despite this, no engine or vehicle manufacturer has incorporated Meyer's work.[14][15]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Meyer's_water_fuel_cell

[Yamahawk]

Been googling, looks like his patents started falling into the public domain in 2007.

Aftermath

Meyer's patents have expired. His inventions are now in the public domain, available for all to use without restriction or royalty payment.[13] Despite this, no engine or vehicle manufacturer has incorporated Meyer's work.[14][15]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Meyer's_water_fuel_cell

Cool!
  This means anyone can develop what he patented into an alternative energy source and not worry about royalties.
The reason no current manufacturer will use this technology is ,
1. They may not know about it.
2. They don't want to incur the wrath of the Big Oil and Electric companies.
3. Funding isn't going to happen unless some rogue fellow with millions to spend gets a hair up his butt lol.
An example of technology the has been suppressed is Nicola Tesla himself. He invented AC and fluorescent lighting, and was going to give away free energy to everyone... Edison wanted to run his DC through wires, and charge people for it... and he got the funding.
Tesla had ideas that even today aren't fully understood, but they still work. Transmission of electrical potential through the earth's magnetic field was and is still a possibility. But we won't see it on a large scale, or perhaps ANY scale at all...
An example of his experiments in resonance were his steam powered oscillator anchored to bedrock, which built up speed all day, causing tremors through his town in Massachusetts. The townspeople broke into his lab just in time to see him take a sledge hammer to his oscillator, as he couldn't shut it down. He had almost created an earthquake. Anyway, glad to see Stan's work is now free to use.
Charlie

[2wheels]

Now we are talking... and sorry about the thread jack, but it IS most interesting...
Charlie

No worries.  the original question was answered. the conversation has moved on to much more interesting things.  Carry On.