Author Topic: Oil Cooler. (Read 7176 times)

Hotwheelbill · « **Reply #25 on:** January 19, 2018, 08:40:44 AM »

How about CycleX Oil Filter Eliminator Block-Off Plate? It would put all of the oil thru the cooler and and remote filter then straight back into the oil flow path.
Only thing is were to put a remote filter???

slikwilli420 · « **Reply #26 on:** January 19, 2018, 09:29:52 AM »

That could work. Terry in Australia came up with a kit that let the oil cooler live under the #4 carb and attached to a plumbed plate that was under the ignition cover. I dont have a pic but it was a neat setup.

I would most prefer the lines running from oil tank to engine, return line comes from engine through oil cooler then back to tank. Thats the was race bikes are built and ensures good cooling. Just for kicks, you could plumb in a thermostat as well.

TwoTired · « **Reply #27 on:** January 19, 2018, 11:39:05 AM »

Quote from: dave500 on January 18, 2018, 07:07:03 PM

the oil in the cooler might drop a little temp for the short time its there but as soon as its back into the motor itll be just as hot as it was.

I'm kinda siding with Dave on this one.

Being an air cooled motor, the motor dominates the oil's heat content. While an oil cooler can remove "some" heat from the engine, it is NOT even close to being the dominant cooling factor for the motor or the oil. An oil cooler is for trying to keep the oil from deteriorating. If you are looking for a significant engine cooling action, get more air flow over the engine's outer cooling surface, or make that surface larger to increase contact with the air moving past it.

Cheers,

dave500 · « **Reply #28 on:** January 19, 2018, 01:37:42 PM »

oil coolers work so long as they are big enough,some of those offered for bikes are just too small to be very effective,if you had one this big compared to one about the size circled youd be actualy cooling oil.

Deltarider · « **Reply #29 on:** January 20, 2018, 12:45:02 AM »

Quote from: Hotwheelbill on January 19, 2018, 08:40:44 AM

How about CycleX Oil Filter Eliminator Block-Off Plate? It would put all of the oil thru the cooler and and remote filter then straight back into the oil flow path.
Only thing is were to put a remote filter???

To solve what problem?! This what's I wrote above: What I miss in this thread is a table of temperatures, before and after, under what circumstances at what speed, etc. Surprise us with your test results, don't bore us with cosmetic changes. Testing, one, two, three, testing.

dave500 · « **Reply #30 on:** January 20, 2018, 01:00:16 AM »

even cheap modern oils are very good these days and can handle extreme heat,anyone who loves their bike changes it regularly if not early?its cheap enough,im not dissing oil coolers so much as just don't read too much into them,sellers will sell you a beer can size cooler and promise you the earth,you will be happy and ride on.

Hotwheelbill · « **Reply #31 on:** January 20, 2018, 03:50:26 AM »

Quote from: Deltarider on January 20, 2018, 12:45:02 AM

Quote from: Hotwheelbill on January 19, 2018, 08:40:44 AM
How about CycleX Oil Filter Eliminator Block-Off Plate? It would put all of the oil thru the cooler and and remote filter then straight back into the oil flow path.
Only thing is were to put a remote filter???

To solve what problem?! This what's I wrote above: What I miss in this thread is a table of temperatures, before and after, under what circumstances at what speed, etc. Surprise us with your test results, don't bore us with cosmetic changes. Testing, one, two, three, testing.

There are many different ways to cool the oil these days and I have been looking at all of them. Did not mean to bore you, but I did not ask these questions for your entertainment. I did ask these questions for some thought and maybe answers that apparently you do not have.

Hotwheelbill · « **Reply #32 on:** January 20, 2018, 04:09:57 AM »

Quote from: TwoTired on January 19, 2018, 11:39:05 AM

Quote from: dave500 on January 18, 2018, 07:07:03 PM
the oil in the cooler might drop a little temp for the short time its there but as soon as its back into the motor itll be just as hot as it was.

I'm kinda siding with Dave on this one.

Being an air cooled motor, the motor dominates the oil's heat content. While an oil cooler can remove "some" heat from the engine, it is NOT even close to being the dominant cooling factor for the motor or the oil. An oil cooler is for trying to keep the oil from deteriorating. If you are looking for a significant engine cooling action, get more air flow over the engine's outer cooling surface, or make that surface larger to increase contact with the air moving past it.

Cheers,

for the sake of argument, I do not disagree with anything you have just said. But the problem is getting more airflow. The heat Source itself is directly out front. The oil travels directly above the heat Source itself and then internally and behind that heat source. The two places it has a chance to cool or the oil tank and the oil filter with air fins placed in front of the motor to catch that air flow. Pulling the oil directly out of the heat Source itself and into a cooling system can have nothing but positive results.

dave500 · « **Reply #33 on:** January 20, 2018, 04:14:12 AM »

fit an oil cooler and be happy.

Yamahawk · « **Reply #34 on:** January 20, 2018, 04:40:57 AM »

Just curious as to whether anyone has tried adapting a cooling fan from a water-cooled engine to an air-cooled oil cooler? There are many small fans that could be mounted behind the oil cooler and then ran through a thermostat to turn them on, or just a switch to turn them on...
Probably couldn't build a radiator from a water-cooled bike to work, as the pressure would be too much for the hose connections, unless welded adaptors were made to adapt AN-6 hoses or such to the radiator... and then the cap would have to be sealed too. But, there would already be a thermostat threaded in, and the fan already mounted also.... just thinking.
If you could mount a small fan from a water-cooled bike though, to your existing oil cooler, or to the oil tank, that would give air flow when you don't have any as in a traffic jam...

Charlie

TwoTired · « **Reply #35 on:** January 20, 2018, 12:11:53 PM »

Quote from: Hotwheelbill on January 20, 2018, 04:09:57 AM

But the problem is getting more airflow.

Exactly true.

Quote from: Hotwheelbill on January 20, 2018, 04:09:57 AM

The heat Source itself is directly out front. The oil travels directly above the heat Source itself and then internally and behind that heat source.

Are you aware of turbulent airflow around the bike? This is also what makes so much friction drag. That greatly helps cooling surface area. And what of airflow when stationary? Stagnant air reaches it's absorption limit and no longer carries away heat, regardless of.

Quote from: Hotwheelbill on January 20, 2018, 04:09:57 AM

The two places it has a chance to cool or the oil tank and the oil filter with air fins placed in front of the motor to catch that air flow.

Why are you eliminating the possibility that the engine itself can cool the oil? Cool it, and the oil cools too.

Quote from: Hotwheelbill on January 20, 2018, 04:09:57 AM

Pulling the oil directly out of the heat Source itself and into a cooling system can have nothing but positive results.

Not true. (Even if you don't count very small magnitudes of "change", or significant returns on investment.)

Further, oil has an effective operating temperature range. Cool below that range and it fails to work as intended. Overcooling is an issue in that it can delay the condensate evaporation. Overcome most of that issue with a thermostat. Further still, condensate can get trapped in the cooler and only released to distribute through the engine when the engine eventually gets hot enough to open the thermostat. Like when the engine is working hard. Still should have that thermostat, imo.
The point here is, you have to consider the operating mode and the operating environment. And, you should know beforehand what the temps are before the addition of an oil cooler and compare it with temps after the addition in order to "know" what effect it had and that it met expectations.

Otherwise, you are simply following a fashion or have a religious style "faith" in an unproven mechanism change.

This is all probably moot. If I read between lines, it seems you have made up your mind already. I wish you good luck with that. Just be certain that you aren't adding another opportunity for total oil loss.

Thanks for the discussion.

Cheers,

Yamahawk · « **Reply #36 on:** January 20, 2018, 02:22:27 PM »

Honda engineers have already calculated surface area for cooling of their engines, and they take into consideration most operating scenarios. On any air-cooled bike, you have factors that can affect the already efficient cooling area of the actual engine itself, and that includes riding in traffic jams

or mounting a full fairing that would affect the turbulent airflow around the bike.
Also, in extreme heat areas like Death Valley... I would probably mount an oil cooler in that area if I rode there consistently, and it wouldn't hurt.
Oil coolers were actually manufactured for a specific demand, and that was... racing. A racing engine needs additional protection for its oil supply, as extreme heat and load on the transmission gears break down oil quickly. So, if you aren't riding in Death Valley, or Seattle on I5, or any other area where traffic slows to a crawl in hot weather, and are not racing your bike, then you probably don't need an oil cooler.
Charlie

Hotwheelbill · « **Reply #37 on:** January 20, 2018, 03:29:53 PM »

Quote from: Yamahawk on January 20, 2018, 02:22:27 PM

Honda engineers have already calculated surface area for cooling of their engines, and they take into consideration most operating scenarios. On any air-cooled bike, you have factors that can affect the already efficient cooling area of the actual engine itself, and that includes riding in traffic jams or mounting a full fairing that would affect the turbulent airflow around the bike.
Also, in extreme heat areas like Death Valley... I would probably mount an oil cooler in that area if I rode there consistently, and it wouldn't hurt.
Oil coolers were actually manufactured for a specific demand, and that was... racing. A racing engine needs additional protection for its oil supply, as extreme heat and load on the transmission gears break down oil quickly. So, if you aren't riding in Death Valley, or Seattle on I5, or any other area where traffic slows to a crawl in hot weather, and are not racing your bike, then you probably don't need an oil cooler.
Charlie

Let me add something that I should have from the start. This will be for an 836 cammed street Hot Rod Motor. Not going to race it, .........well maybe, but will be beat on! I have never pulled apart a CB750 , or any motorcycle motor for that part. That is why I ask. $3000 motor, I want protection.
As for fashion, I don't care about that. But I do care about what I think looks good on my bike...
If no one here cared about what looks good on these bikes, we would be riding CTX700!!!

Racer Jon · « **Reply #38 on:** January 20, 2018, 03:38:04 PM »

If your going to street an 836 kit with a big cam it will not hurt at all to put a oil cooler on it, they do run a hotter than stock, as for the original question I have no idea if that will fit.

Stev-o · « **Reply #39 on:** January 20, 2018, 06:38:01 PM »

My Kawasaki GPz550 came stock with an oil cooler.
Appently the Kaw engineers saw the need for it on that bike.

seanbarney41 · « **Reply #40 on:** January 20, 2018, 07:42:08 PM »

Yep, my GSXR has a BIG mofo, but then that engine doesn't have as much in the cooling fin department

Yamahawk · « **Reply #41 on:** January 20, 2018, 07:53:04 PM »

The GSXR's were oil cooled engines, that's why it is larger. Before they went to water cooled motors, they had oil cooling.
My 1982 Yamaha XZ550 Vision, was water cooled, and had NO fins on the cylinders... actually looked rather cool, and more like an air compressor lol... But, it worked very well. 68hp out of a 550cc bike, stock. I could keep up with a V45 Sabre through 110mph, then he would start to take me.
I think if your are building, or having built an engine that is a performance motor, why not add an oil cooler. If you add a temp gauge, you can monitor your oil to see if you need anything extra to help with that.
Charlie

PeWe · « **Reply #42 on:** January 21, 2018, 01:04:16 AM »

The oil should reach 100 degrees C as quick as possible and let the condensation water to vapor out of the engine, right? Then keep the 100-120C range. (212-248F)
I have seen temps closer to 120C (240F) a few times in my bike's oil tank. Mostly max 105-110C (220-230F) 836 as well as 1005cc. If high CR pistons goes hot, install a hotter cam with more overlap reducing the compression.
Some of the higher temps due to new pistons, I guess. I have had thoughts about lower temps with full synth oil which can be coincidences with my bike.
There are cams with longer ex duration to cool down according to the cam descriptions I have seen. Like Kenny Harmon F. Megacycle 125-20 has similar data. These are race cams. I'll check my Megacycle 125-20 later on since it will probably have OK low rpm behavior with 1005cc than it had with my 836.

A good start is to order a oil tank gauge and measure how hot the oil will become. Check direct at a stop since oil cools down in tank within a few minutes.
http://www.yamiya750.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=246_251_182_83&products_id=1484
Use better oil that withstand higher temps. At least a semi synth 20W-50. If my bike should be ridden very hot I should not hesitate to use a 20W-60 full synth.
Long red light stops in a hot place, switch off. I do not have that problem where I live.

Hotwheelbill · « **Reply #43 on:** January 21, 2018, 09:05:29 AM »

Quote from: PeWe on January 21, 2018, 01:04:16 AM

The oil should reach 100 degrees C as quick as possible and let the condensation water to vapor out of the engine, right? Then keep the 100-120C range. (212-248F)
I have seen temps closer to 120C (240F) a few times in my bike's oil tank. Mostly max 105-110C (220-230F) 836 as well as 1005cc. If high CR pistons goes hot, install a hotter cam with more overlap reducing the compression.
Some of the higher temps due to new pistons, I guess. I have had thoughts about lower temps with full synth oil which can be coincidences with my bike.
There are cams with longer ex duration to cool down according to the cam descriptions I have seen. Like Kenny Harmon F. Megacycle 125-20 has similar data. These are race cams. I'll check my Megacycle 125-20 later on since it will probably have OK low rpm behavior with 1005cc than it had with my 836.

A good start is to order a oil tank gauge and measure how hot the oil will become. Check direct at a stop since oil cools down in tank within a few minutes.
http://www.yamiya750.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=246_251_182_83&products_id=1484
Use better oil that withstand higher temps. At least a semi synth 20W-50. If my bike should be ridden very hot I should not hesitate to use a 20W-60 full synth.
Long red light stops in a hot place, switch off. I do not have that problem where I live.

Thank you.

754 · « **Reply #44 on:** January 21, 2018, 12:10:20 PM »

See another reason choppers with longer forks are cool... cooler than stockers..
You cant get that airflow on a stocker.
I do remember a few running a sortof 2 inch wide scoop around some Lockart coolers.
Now a Lockhart 700 with the threaded ports, that isvthe cooler for me.

Take a look at the leading edge if a 71 to 76 750 oil tank.. it's a scoop !

Hotwheelbill · « **Reply #45 on:** January 22, 2018, 04:41:16 PM »

Its funny that you point out about the oil tank side cover. I have seen that and wondered if that was why. This bike I plan is going to have stock air box but modified and stock oil tank and covers. A restow mod with a Hot Rod 836. I have more questions about parts later, but going ahead with the stuff I know I need and want for the motor.

evinrude7 · « **Reply #46 on:** January 23, 2018, 06:24:14 AM »

Quote from: Hotwheelbill on January 22, 2018, 04:41:16 PM

Its funny that you point out about the oil tank side cover. I have seen that and wondered if that was why. This bike I plan is going to have stock air box but modified and stock oil tank and covers. A restow mod with a Hot Rod 836. I have more questions about parts later, but going ahead with the stuff I know I need and want for the motor.

i've seen the oil tank side cover on some of these with large holes neatly bored out with screen placed in the hole. more venting?

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Author Topic: Oil Cooler. (Read 7176 times)