Topic: why would pipes #1 & 3 be cool?

[TwoTired]

thanks. I had put a spark plug socket a tad too fat in #1 and it got stuck. Geez Honda, you could have left .5mm extra so we could get a standard socket at the store

Wait a minute.  Honda included a spark plug socket/wrench to fit the engine wonderfully with every Honda they sold.  They didn't require you to buy anything such thing at the store later.  What you should be complaining about is why the previous owner of your bike stole that highly useful tool when they sold it to you!

Cheers,

[Alaxy Galaxy]

A safer and saner way to check is to get a remote temperature sensor gun from Harbor Freight (cheap at $30) and point it at each pipe while running the engine.

I always went the same route as my mechanic: a spray bottle filled with water. Put it on stream, spray it on, watch it steam (or not...)

Pretty safe and easy! 

[Yamahawk]

It is! Safe, and easy. But, if you want to tell if it is running lean (HOT) or rich, (COLDER) you could get the cheap infra red temp sensor gun from Harbor freight. I use mine specifically for my 2 stroke RD350, and can tell after the engine is warmed up whether I have a balance in the cylinder mixture, or have an air leak... I also use it to check tire temp after I come in from the track, tells me if I am running too much air pressure, or too little.
Charlie

[Deltarider]

Man... just use your fingers a fraction of a second.

[Yamahawk]

Man... just use your fingers a fraction of a second.

Hehe a side benefit is it gets rid of your fingerprints, too! So, no more pesky evidence left behind...
Charlie

[PeWe]

thanks. I had put a spark plug socket a tad too fat in #1 and it got stuck. Geez Honda, you could have left .5mm extra so we could get a standard socket at the store

Wait a minute.  Honda included a spark plug socket/wrench to fit the engine wonderfully with every Honda they sold.  They didn't require you to buy anything such thing at the store later.  What you should be complaining about is why the previous owner of your bike stole that highly useful tool when they sold it to you!

Cheers,

Missing Honda spark plug tool made me to order a complete tool set for my CB750. 2, 3 need a slim tool.
This reminds me about order one more set for my K2.. This forum often reminds me about getting more bills to pay

[Don R]

 I've had good luck buying the used tools a few at a time on ebay. OOh that reminds me, I was watching a batch of wrenches that had 4 of the ones from the k0 set. edit,  I bought them lol.

[juntjoo]

okay, so I tried again after adjusting valve clearances. No change. I also tried putting 2 & 4 cables in 1 & 3 sockets and 1 & 3 plugs in 2 & 4 sockets. So what does that mean? And I checked plugs 1 & 3 for spark so if all plugs have spark but only 2 & 4 work on cylinders 2 & 4...

[robvangulik]

Yyou do know the right sequence of plug leads is essential?
Those of one coil go to 1 and 4 and the other to 2 and 3!

[Scott S]

 Man, I seriously think you need to stop, step back, take a deep breath and start from square one.

 Some of the things you've said about the valve adjustment have me really concerned and confused. Like, the "more than one TDC " thing. I'm still not convinced you've adjusted the valves correctly or even gotten the rocker cover on without binding one of the arms.

 Plus, you have multiple threads going on about valves, ignitors,  spark plugs, multi meters, etc.
 Why don't you start one big "Help Juntjoo fix his CB650!" thread and go through this one step at a time?
 Right now, you're like Stevie Wonder with a light saber!

 Take all the plugs out.
 Put the engine at TDC on #1
 Confirm this by looking in #1plug hole or sticking a straw in it. The piston should be up and BOTH valves on #1 should have some free play.
 Then look at #3 and show us what you have.

 Seriously,  consider starting one thread and fix one problem at a time. You're all over the place and I can't help but feel like these problems are all related.

[juntjoo]

Yyou do know the right sequence of plug leads is essential?
Those of one coil go to 1 and 4 and the other to 2 and 3!

nope. there are things I don't know.

[juntjoo]

I am quite sure I did the valves right.

really. I spent a lot of time on it the last time and was able to do it to the T. So what would be next? I was thinking timing. Gotta sleep now but wouldn't that be a good thing to check? I've no idea, I just throwing out words I've heard and sounds like "timing" could play a part in certain cylinders not firing but I wish I knew if there was some significance in these pairs, 1 & 3 and 2 & 4.

[Scott S]

 Then something is wrong with #3 if you have no clearance and you shouldn't run it until you figure it out.

[juntjoo]

Then something is wrong with #3 if you have no clearance and you shouldn't run it until you figure it out.

no, I have clearance. I did it right. You must be tired of reading me as you seem to be skimming.  can't say my bad work didn't mess something up but I'm confident my last attempt was correct

[juntjoo]

what's confusing is you start at 1, and the two times you can pass tdc for 1&4 work for 1, but only one time works for 3. I lost track /count.

[Scott S]

no, I have clearance. I did it right. You must be tired of reading me as you seem to be skimming.  can't say my bad work didn't mess something up but I'm confident my last attempt was correct

 No, YOU must be skimming. In your OTHER thread about no clearance, I posted a link and gave a description of how the Honda Factory Service manual does it. You don't put in on TDC on #1 and then turn it over and over to get to #3.
 Read  this again:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,136792.0.html

 And in the other thread, you say you have no clearance on #3 but you don't specify whether that's on the intake or exhaust. If you have the valve adjustment wrong, you WILL NOT fire on that cylinder because it's not opening and closing the valve like it should. THAT could very well be your "ignition" issue.

what's confusing is you start at 1, and the two times you can pass tdc for 1&4 work for 1, but only one time works for 3. I lost track /count.

 This is simply wrong. Like I said: Stop, step back, read the instructions again and do it right before you irreparably damage something.
 The way you're describing how you did the valves....it's just not right.
 We walked you through it and gave you a link. We can do it again.

 Watch this video. It's on a 550, but the procedure is the same. It even covers the valve cover installation.

[juntjoo]

no, I have clearance. I did it right. You must be tired of reading me as you seem to be skimming.  can't say my bad work didn't mess something up but I'm confident my last attempt was correct

 No, YOU must be skimming. In your OTHER thread about no clearance, I posted a link and gave a description of how the Honda Factory Service manual does it. You don't put in on TDC on #1 and then turn it over and over to get to #3.
 Read  this again:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,136792.0.html

 And in the other thread, you say you have no clearance on #3 but you don't specify whether that's on the intake or exhaust. If you have the valve adjustment wrong, you WILL NOT fire on that cylinder because it's not opening and closing the valve like it should. THAT could very well be your "ignition" issue.

what's confusing is you start at 1, and the two times you can pass tdc for 1&4 work for 1, but only one time works for 3. I lost track /count.

 This is simply wrong. Like I said: Stop, step back, read the instructions again and do it right before you irreparably damage something.
 The way you're describing how you did the valves....it's just not right.
 We walked you through it and gave you a link. We can do it again.

 Watch this video. It's on a 550, but the procedure is the same. It even covers the valve cover installation.

well I thought I mentioned I'm going by my book, which is the same as what you're posting. And in one cycle you get TDC for either set, two times right? well I can say for one you can adjust intake #1 but not #3. I just mean that there is clearance to use the gauge but it's the wrong tdc pass. Gotta go around again where you can do both. I hadn't made 100% sure I was at tdc for #1. And I was telling two stories, one where I messed up, and the last is where I didn't. I did it right by the book, like I've been but this time I knew better what I was doing. I think maybe I'm not being concise. And I wasn't accusing you of skimming, in fact I might have been apologizing for making you skim.

[juntjoo]

ensure you're at tdc for #1(put something in the cylinder. i tried a 1/4" extension. on the way up it got stuck and that scared me so I stopped, dedicated time to getting the cycle down, found only one particular pass of tdc worked. that's my starting tdc. the book handles the rest)

do all of #1, exhaust on #2, intake on #3, turn one rev to tdc 2.3, do the rest.

done.

I think that's it.

[Yamahawk]

There are two TDC in a 4 stroke engine for every cylinder. One, is the compression stroke, where BOTH valves are closed, and at TDC you will have clearance to set your valves. The other TDC is on the Exhaust stroke, where the intake is closed, and the exhaust valve is open. You will have no clearance there for the EXHAUST valve. This is common for each cylinder. Now, Scott is telling you truthfully, you are missing rudimentary knowledge as how a 4 stroke engine works. Because of this, you have confused yourself into a corner, and have multiple issues going on, which may all be due to this one thing.
If you have had the valve cover off, and haven't installed it back correctly, that could be a cause of the rocker arm binding, and no valve clearance. Hopefully nothing was damaged when you did this, then cranked over the engine.  For valves to be successfully adjusted, the valve train must be correctly installed. Part of your valve train is in the rocker cover, or valve cover as it is know also. I would remove it again, and back off all the valve adjusters, then using the RUBBER BANDS, hold the rockers up as you have been instructed to, and re-install the cover. Prior to doing so, I would turn over the engine, observing the intake and exhaust valves to determine when #1 TDC occurs on the COMPRESSION Stroke. As you turn over the engine, one valve will open on #1 cylinder, then the other. At the #1 TDC (there are two) that BOTH valves remain closed (both at same position, closed) leave the engine there, and make sure your timing marks in the points plate point to 1-4. THEN re-install your valve cover, using the rubber bands to hold up the rockers on all 4 cylinders. Now, without moving the engine, set the valves on #1 cylinder, and follow the instructions that Scott provided to adjust the rest of the 3 cylinder's valves. You MUST start at a know position, in order to achieve success in this. If this description is confusing, is there a friend close that has knowledge on motorcycle mechanics, that could assist you?
Charlie

[Scott S]

 I'm not trying to be a butt, either.
 But you have something seriously wrong if you have an adjuster backed all the way out and can't get a feeler gauge under it. Plus, you have cold pipes that just happen to be on the cylinder(s) with the wonky tappet? Hmmm.....think they might be connected?

 I think you're chasing too many problems at once.
 I know it's frustrating and aggravating and a step back, but do this:

- Take out all four plugs
- Put a straw in #1 plug hole (far left, as you sit on the bike)
- Rotate engine until it's at TDC. The 1/4 mark will be on the T and you will see the straw rise up.
- Check that the #1 intake AND exhaust are loose; i.e., have clearance. .002 for IN and .003 for EX.
- WITHOUT TURNING THE ENGINE, check the #2 exhaust and #3 intake.
- If you have no clearance on #3, then something is wrong.

 NEXT:
 - Rotate the crank ONE full revolution until it's back on the T mark for 1/4.
 - The intake and exhaust for #4 should both be loose/have clearance.
 - Check the #2 intake and #3 exhaust.

 You say in one of the other threads that you have spark but don't, don't know which coil leads go to which plugs, etc.
 Do the above steps. The RH coil fires 2 and 3. The LH coil fires 1 and 4. Make sure the leads from the coils are on the correct plugs.

Black/White- Coil Power Supply (Cutoff Switch-Coils)
Yellow- Breaker Signal, Cylinders 2&3 (Right ignitor-2&3 Coil)
Blue- Breaker Signal, Cylinders 1&4 (Left ignitor-1&4 Coil)

 If you do ALL of these things and you're still not firing and you still have no clearance on #3 (and you never did say if it was IN, EX or BOTH), then report back.

[juntjoo]

at this point idk what it is you all think I don't understand. charlie, thanks for the pointer on the watching the valves themselves. keep in mind Ive got different ideas I'm being presented with meanwhile my brain is trying to make a 3d image in my head. anyway, I went with my method, as book provided none and the others were confusing or I failed, and it's the same as what was shown in the vid being if you're where you're supposed to be, they're all loose. And it worked. I still don't get the rubber band thing and how it would help me since I only see it with a different cover and when I tried it it did nothing. I just needed to back up the adjusting screws, so I'm thinking rubber band trick doesn't apply. So you may not trust me and I don't blame you but again, I'm pretty  darn sure I did it right this time. And I tried to be detailer in my understanding so if you don't trust my feelings just tell me what I said that sounds wrong and don't just repeat something. But thanks for all your help

[Yamahawk]

Glad you are confident in this last attempt. I will post this here also, but this is a YouTube video on adjusting valves on a CB550, not the same bike, but the same procedure. It is good to have a visual sometimes.

Charlie

[juntjoo]

scott, you skimmed then repeated. im sorry I wasnt clear, but 'i already know' about what you just posted. I did it. yeah, did like the book in my hand, book in the pics and book in the vid. but after I wake up i will enthusiastically go ahead with your spark troubleshooting steps. thank you

there IS clearance at #3 intake. was(b4 finishing last attempt) . #3 has been taken care of

[Scott S]

 Good luck.
 I was typing when the other replies were made.

 All I can tell you is, if you have no clearance on #3 and the adjuster is all the way out, then something is wrong. Damage may ensue.
 Maybe someone else has a better suggestion for you.

[juntjoo]

Glad you are confident in this last attempt. I will post this here also, but this is a YouTube video on adjusting valves on a CB550, not the same bike, but the same procedure. It is good to have a visual sometimes.

Charlie

thanks