Topic: CB750 Wet Sump Conversion - Sumpthing

[NickRafAcosta]

Anyone seen this before or attempted to make convert their 750's to Wet Sump? This company in the Netherlands claims to have made a easy to install wet sump conversion kit, but still would like to know if anyone has attempted their own conversion before I go ahead and order one of these to experiment with. Would really love to get rid of my external oil tank on my next cafe racer build

http://sumpthing.net/

[simon#42]

dont think this is the right place to post this , a wet sump would be a backwards step for performance
i also cant for the life of me see how cooling can be improved by 20 %  i would have thought it was quite the opposite !

[Kevin D]

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,169347.0.html

Here's a three page thread on it, don't know if anybody has tried it.

[Stev-o]

He's a member here but do not know of anyone that has bought or tested one.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,169347.0.html

[NickO]

This seems crazy. A bit like replacing a dry clutch for a wet one.................. why?

[MRieck]

 I think it's all about aesthetics.....no oil tank for those minimalist builds.

[PeWe]

My k6 was wet sump when cold all along until I replaced the oil pump to another one that let oil stay in the tank
Oil flowing to oil tank must have a cooling effect. No oil tank on a CB750 must end up in a hotter engine if no additional cooler is added.

[Sam Green Racing]

I've just flirted an email off to them asking if any of them are members of this forum in case they might like to comment.
It seems it went to a shoe company,  .
Maybe the sumpthing is just a side line.
In the Q&A section of their website, it says a member (gschuld) George has been it talks with them about fitting a baffle in their product.

Sam.

[turboguzzi]

guys, most "builders" just need to ride to the nearest cafe/hip hot post so overheating is not an issue really. While sitting there sipping badly brewed coffee, focus falls on cleanliness of lines that should shout speed! and Bauhaus like minimalism.
Those aesthetic values are strongly compromised by that unsightly volume mid bike called an oil tank.
Dont you all know?

TONGUE IN CHEEK of course

 

[cbr954]

Me personally I like the look of having an oil tank, guess I'm just weird like that.

[strynboen]

all later Hondas had no oiltank...think Honda put it on ..mostly for the Classic look..and to make norton ovners more happy to bay japanese bikes.
.to many new thinngs on the Honda...so a oiltank vas somthing the oldscool ones liked...and to camuflage thar it all vas the same oil both in gearbox and engine..vith all that devil and badnes it have...

[Sam Green Racing]

I think turboguzzi and MRieck are both correct, these deep sumps are just for aesthetics for the cafe racer guys.
I'm not sure if they can prove that the Sumpthing will run 20% cooler with the deep sump but the CB750 motor definitely don't need the oil tank.
Mine like all other CB750As never ran hot with a wet sump but do you really want to buy one just to look cool, that's 20% cool, pun intended.

Sam. 

[gschuld]

I've just flirted an email off to them asking if any of them are members of this forum in case they might like to comment.
It seems it went to a shoe company,  .
Maybe the sumpthing is just a side line.
In the Q&A section of their website, it says a member (gschuld) George has been it talks with them about fitting a baffle in their product.

Sam.

Yes, I corresponded with him a few times.  I wouldn’t pretend to be able to judge how well this system will work in real life, but I did suggest a one way baffle for oil surge fwd as he wanted to make sure it could be appropriate in a road racing application.

I’m not for or against dry sump oil systems, but to follow the thinking at Honda, the very successful (1971) cb500 four was introduced a mere 2 years after the first cb750.  Honda decided NOT to use a dry sump.  The cb500 has been a proven bike with a well established road racing record.  Same for the Kawasaki Z1, among others.  So I think it’s fair to say that the sohc cb750 would have been a perfectly good engine without the dry sump system if designed for it from scratch.  Whether a conversion from dry sump to wet sump will work as well with this new system, no idea...

George

[Sam Green Racing]

I'm beginning to wonder if all this is a hoax George.
After all the postings from the guy doing the selling and then the guy that started this thread suddenly chips in with a first post is making me wonder.
I sent them an email this morning and after it had gone, it said I had sent it to BLA BLA BLA, it's no longer there now so I can't check but when I clicked on the seller, I was put through to a company selling shoes.
I'm off to bed now but will look into it in the morning.

Sam. 

[Sam Green Racing]

George, just before leaving for bed, I checked to see if I could PM this Bert guy who was posting in the sales forum.
I opened his profile and clicked on the PM function and it opened, try it yourself.
The adds that we see that keep popping up down the right hand side of the page were there and guess what ? the same damn shoe advert that I just mentioned.

Sam. 

[gschuld]

Sam,

I don’t think any of this is a hoax.  I think the guy is making a sincere effort to produce this product.  It’s not from an established deep pocketed source, so it creates logistical challenges.

It’s entirely possible that he has been discouraged by a general lack of interest(potential buyers) for what he is doing.  For sure it took some time, effort, and dedication to design, produce, and go through initial testing of his system.   

George

[Bert Jan]

Hi all,

George, thanks for the kind words. I'm not running a shoe company haha, wtf happened there? Like my name says, I'm Bert Jan Blok from the Netherlands, and i'm running Outsiders Motorcycles. Been on bike-exif with a CB750 and couple times on the BikeShed. Attended the Bike-Shed show in Paris couple years back. One man circus here, no hoaxes or anything.

Feels kinda weird to get flamed on without doing throurough investigations first. I've got a thick skin, so all good. I'm feeling i could make a picture with a couple of kits and my ID here and some still wouldn't believe it. Like i said before, and on the websites too, We're finally there. the boxes where the kits gets shipped in needed to be made to fit the kit as i didn't want to ship it out in general use boxes.

I made the website www.sumpthing.net to gain more traffic to the product as it's my first product for retail. My own site is www.outsidersmotorcycles.com, i have a paypal account linked to that and a full webshop to it aswell, so it seemed logical to sell it from there.

[NickRafAcosta]

Yes im one of those aspiring home builders trying to get that clean triangle underneath my tank ahhaha, Excuse my ignorance though but why would converting my engine to a wet sump affect it's performance? My thought was that this system could work simply because instead of having a remote reservoir it's build into the bike now with this 'SumpThing, and yes thank you for the response personally Bert, I just think a little bit more information or something could help a lot of people into making the decision of buying your product. I mean if it works that would be very appealing to a lot of people like me
Nick

[slikwilli420]

I don't think you are being flamed as much as being vetted. Again, to many, it looks like you signed up here to sell your item, which doesn't look good. Additionally, your claims are unsubstantiated so that is a worry to some. And no one has one to put on and try. I know you are drumming up interest but its hard to confidently deposit that kind of coin to someone who is unknown to most here for a product that seems to have limited benefit.

[simon#42]

yes not having a go at what you are doing im sure it looks nice . but you have posted this in the performance and racing section of the forum and with all the will
in the world this is not a performance modification . oh and then you claimed it was easier on the oil pump and made the oil 20% cooler both of which are rubbish .
unless you can prove otherwise of corse .

[Bert Jan]

I completely understand that. i would have to think twice aswell it it was the other way around.
If there was superslick website and loads of information/video's etc the sales would be higher. -Your argument 'You're here for the salestalk" would have been true then.
But then one could say 'It's probably a marketing-company with deep pockets trying to make quick money over our poor backs but they're not in the scene so #$%* 'em' Haters gonna hate.

Like George said, i don't have deep pockets. Well, they're deep, but also empty.

I might come over a bit harsh aswell, but that's mostly because my lack of words - please remember English is not my first language - i'd love to see you type in Dutch haha
I didn't came onto the forum to sell the product, i came to tell you guys about it. Might look the same to some though, but i know lots of people are struggling with the oil removal thingy so it's more like handing a hand. It's not that i'm gonna get filthy rich after 20 sales.

Yeah, about the info for the product. I've typed the website names so many times now.. Just click on them and read the info on the websites. If you have any other questions, please email me directly. I'm not on the forums all day as i have a business to run and a product to get shipped. let's just say i'm busy. It's a one-man circus

Cheers guys, and thanks for the replies.

[turboguzzi]

contrary to some here, i actually think that 500$ is a reasonable price for what is on offer. as my nick implies, i'm also into guzzis and the big block deep sump/external oil filter kits are also around 500$
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=4586
Never felt that my Le-Mans III ever needed that mod, but there seem so to be plenty of people who do...
unlike the stock guzzis, where changing the filter is a PITA, Bert's kit simplys add "beauty" for some, that's why maybe it's a harder sell.

I do agree with slik that introducing yourself here as a famous guy who already been in bikeexif/bikeshed/bikewhatever and has an amazing product to sell is not the best strategy in sohc4.
We had in the past some high profile personalities that came here chest pounding and been sent right back home to learn some manners
So maybe tells us a bit about your projects, which pets & plants you like, and we take it from there? 

[Bert Jan]

contrary to some here, i actually think that 500$ is a reasonable price for what is on offer. as my nick implies, i'm also into guzzis and the big block deep sump/external oil filter kits are also around 500$
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=4586
Never felt that my Le-Mans III ever needed that mod, but there seem so to be plenty of people who do...
unlike the stock guzzis, where changing the filter is a PITA, Bert's kit simplys add "beauty" for some, that's why maybe it's a harder sell.

I do agree with slik that introducing yourself here as a famous guy who already been in bikeexif/bikeshed/bikewhatever and has an amazing product to sell is not the best strategy in sohc4.
We had in the past some high profile personalities that came here chest pounding and been sent right back home to learn some manners
So maybe tells us a bit about your projects, which pets & plants you like, and we take it from there? 

Seriously? I'm not patting myself on the back, it was just an introduction so you guys could do some background checks. It seemed neccecary as i was mistaken for a shoe-salesman.

[Bert Jan]

yes not having a go at what you are doing im sure it looks nice . but you have posted this in the performance and racing section of the forum and with all the will
in the world this is not a performance modification . oh and then you claimed it was easier on the oil pump and made the oil 20% cooler both of which are rubbish .
unless you can prove otherwise of corse .

We've been developing this for over 2 years and i never stated oil stays 20% cooler at all times. (That's not always a good thing anyways.)
I do state that oil temperature is CAN GET UP TO 20% cooler. That means we had results up to 20% cooler than stock. We also had results that were the same as stock and we've also blown several engines to heaven during the early stages. Why? Because i wanted to be sure i don't sell trouble.

P.S. i didn't start this thread.

[754]

Thank you for coming in and discussing.
 I have seen inbtgd pictures, it is not a simple thing to make, and I dont feel overpriced. This I say as a machinist.
 I myself want to see someone on here put one to use, and hear their thoughts.
 Frank