Topic: CB750 Wet Sump Conversion - Sumpthing

[cbr954]

I have run Amsoil in my 750 but it makes my starter clutch slip.  Switch back to mineral based and the clutch works normal.  But I run amsoil in everything else and I love it.

[scottly]

I have run Amsoil in my 750 but it makes my starter clutch slip.  Switch back to mineral based and the clutch works normal.

Really? When the clutch slips does it mack a nasty chatter sound?

[macvit7906]

Hello all. running into issues with the sumpthing (or maybe just my oil pump) - tips/help appreciated!

Installed the sumpthing yesterday. Very well made piece and BertJan has been great to work with.

Running into issues with oil pressure though. I'm using a freshly rebuilt pump that worked great just a few days ago on a freshly rebuilt engine and first start up (60-70psi).

Installed sumpthing successfully, filled the sump with 3 liters of oil. Using the starter motor to check pressure (this usually gets me 40 psi) - I get no oil pressure. So i remove the oil filter housing and get no oil squirting after 3 or 4 30 second bursts - so the pump isn't taking oil.

For some reason my oil pump is really touchy. If any air at all is introduced, it loses prime. I've had to re-prime the thing working the air relief valve many times just go get it to work initially. (maybe the new air relief spring is too strong? )

How exactly is oil pumped with the sumpthing if the intake port is blocked? If initially the pump has to suck any air, then that is for sure what happened.

I'll pull the pump again today to check things out, but does anyone know what could be going wrong?

I'm thinking about attaching the oil tank with just the oil intake hose hooked up and pumping till the sump is full, that way the pump stays primed?

[macvit7906]

Solved!

Took apart, re-primed the pump and got pressure after a nice long crank with the starter. Just takes a bit longer.

FYI, I have even better pressure with the sumpthing!

[nsxguy7]

I just received my sump thing. It looks like a great quality part. Just a couple of things...there are no instructions in the installation manual for priming the pump as it would be very difficult to prime using the typical "pump in a bucket of oil" method. Second, the area in the sump thing that has been machined away to allow clearance for the drive gear on the pump looks a little small...like maybe the gear could contact the sump thing if the gear walks out a little. Thoughts anyone?

[macvit7906]

I just received my sump thing. It looks like a great quality part. Just a couple of things...there are no instructions in the installation manual for priming the pump as it would be very difficult to prime using the typical "pump in a bucket of oil" method. Second, the area in the sump thing that has been machined away to allow clearance for the drive gear on the pump looks a little small...like maybe the gear could contact the sump thing if the gear walks out a little. Thoughts anyone?

I followed the instructions you can download from the sumpthing website to attach the oil pump to the sumpthing.

You NEED to prime the pump again, and it is difficult because now the oil pump is attached and built around the sumpthing.

I took the whole assembly, bought a tub just big enough to fit the whole assembly and bought 5 quarts of oil to completely sumbmerge the whole thing. Primed it as you normally would by spinning the gear, then installed on the bike. (its a messy job, have lots of towels handy) After installation wipe off the oil on the outside with some brake cleaner.

Then I poured 3 quarts of the oil through a valve cover to fill the sumpthing, and saved the extra 2 quarts of oil for a future oil change.

Just run it. It is a quality piece, I havent had any reason to believe the gear was hitting any part of the sump

[HondaMan]

I just received my sump thing. It looks like a great quality part. Just a couple of things...there are no instructions in the installation manual for priming the pump as it would be very difficult to prime using the typical "pump in a bucket of oil" method. Second, the area in the sump thing that has been machined away to allow clearance for the drive gear on the pump looks a little small...like maybe the gear could contact the sump thing if the gear walks out a little. Thoughts anyone?

I followed the instructions you can download from the sumpthing website to attach the oil pump to the sumpthing.

You NEED to prime the pump again, and it is difficult because now the oil pump is attached and built around the sumpthing.

I took the whole assembly, bought a tub just big enough to fit the whole assembly and bought 5 quarts of oil to completely sumbmerge the whole thing. Primed it as you normally would by spinning the gear, then installed on the bike. (its a messy job, have lots of towels handy) After installation wipe off the oil on the outside with some brake cleaner.

Then I poured 3 quarts of the oil through a valve cover to fill the sumpthing, and saved the extra 2 quarts of oil for a future oil change.

Just run it. It is a quality piece, I havent had any reason to believe the gear was hitting any part of the sump

One thing I have also found: on most of these pumps the thin paper gasket in between the pump and its baseplate has broken down and doesn't seal real well. This reduces the pickup suction by a surprising amount! Once it gets wetted and oil is keeping it wet, it will have suction, but not as much as if you swap out the thin gasket for the new one.

[Ellz10]

Received my Sump Thing about a month ago and after a little back and forth with BJ, I'm at an impasse. So upon initial inspection I could see that there was some metal debris where the press pins are and he assured me that it wasn't a problem, nothing to keep the unit from functioning as intended. Fast forward a month to this past week and my OCD got the best of me and I asked BJ if I could replace it with a new unit (my unit was also dirty, with crud and cnc coolant all over it). I looked closer and then noticed that in the picture where I circled in red, the round shape has some sort of divot and I'm trying to understand if whatever goes there needs to fit into that round space. If that's the case, then this unit is not going to work.

I went to the post office today to send it back to BJ, then I proceeded to UPS and then FedEx. UPS wanted $266 and change to ship it back, FedEx wanted $291 and change and USPS wanted $191 and change. I was and still am completely and utterly flabbergasted. Those prices were the cheapest route, without insurance. Lady at the post office told me it would probably take over 3 weeks to get there. Suffice it to say that I didn't send it back. If it comes down to it, when I go to install it, if it won't fit due to that bump, then I guess I'll just be screwed out of $607 for a faulty Sump Thing.

2nd pic is what the correct unit should look like.

[jonnycakes]

I'd dental pick that stuff out

[grcamna2]

I'd dental pick that stuff out

Those bits can be removed easily.

[Ellz10]

I'd dental pick that stuff out

I'd dental pick that stuff out

Those bits can be removed easily.

I've already picked the metal debris out - it's the bump to the left of the left press pin and to the right of the right press pin where it pushes out to interrupt the circle that bothers me. You have to zoom in. I'll post a zoomed in pic.

[grcamna2]

Ellz10,what does Bert Jan say to do? the shipping is a big factor..

[RAFster122s]

Ask if he can send you a FedEx or similar mailer prepaid label. Maybe his corporate rates or account rates are reasonable…

[Ellz10]

Ellz10,what does Bert Jan say to do? the shipping is a big factor..

He reiterated that all he can do is exchange the unit for a new one.

Ask if he can send you a FedEx or similar mailer prepaid label. Maybe his corporate rates or account rates are reasonable…

He sent me $45 to help with shipping. But that's still $150 out of my pocket, making it 1/4 of the total I already paid (which included shipping the first time around).

He said I should see if I could take it to the post and say it was "damaged, return to sender" but I donthage the box he sent it in and I'm almost certain it wouldn't work and if it did, they'd just charge him for the shipping when it got there.

I shouldn't have been sent a unit that looks like this in the first place. Not sure who was doing quality control that day, but they definitely weren't paying attention. For $607 USD, I expected better. If it doesn't end up fitting I'll probably end up playing doctor with the dremel.


Edit/Update:    Spoke again with BJ and he sent me a screenshot from my area to him via USPS and it shows the costs for the box size only being $83 so I'm not sure what to think. I'm going to go back to the post office and show them what he sent. Cuz I wouldn't mind $83 at all, considering he sent me $45 already.

[Ellz10]

***Update*** Solved ***


So I did end up sending out just the main unit back to BJ to be exchanged. Ended up only costing $66 - I made sure to checkmark that it was a returned item to avoid fees and taxes. Took about 3.5 weeks to get there. However, when I did see that it had arrived, it didn't arrive at his shop, it was dropped off at a collection point (never heard of this). So I emailed him and let him so where it was and he said he knew and that he'd go pick it up. Fast forward an hour or so and come to find out they're telling him that he needs to pay €161 to collect it. They tried saying it wasn't a returned good when I even have my copy of customs paperwork that I filled out when I sent it stating that it was. So obviously he declined, which I would have to, and proceeded to tell me something I DID NOT expect. He said he was going to go ahead and just send me a new unit for all the troubles and everything else. I was and still am blown away by this gesture of goodwill, honestly. You really don't find or meet people that have that level of respect and integrity these days. And like I told him, I will definitely be doing business again in the future. That dude is awesome and has my respect. So if anyone has doubts about his business, him personally or how he treats his customers, let this be a testament to that.

[grcamna2]

***Update*** Solved ***


So I did end up sending out just the main unit back to BJ to be exchanged. Ended up only costing $66 - I made sure to checkmark that it was a returned item to avoid fees and taxes. Took about 3.5 weeks to get there. However, when I did see that it had arrived, it didn't arrive at his shop, it was dropped off at a collection point (never heard of this). So I emailed him and let him so where it was and he said he knew and that he'd go pick it up. Fast forward an hour or so and come to find out they're telling him that he needs to pay €161 to collect it. They tried saying it wasn't a returned good when I even have my copy of customs paperwork that I filled out when I sent it stating that it was. So obviously he declined, which I would have to, and proceeded to tell me something I DID NOT expect. He said he was going to go ahead and just send me a new unit for all the troubles and everything else. I was and still am blown away by this gesture of goodwill, honestly. You really don't find or meet people that have that level of respect and integrity these days. And like I told him, I will definitely be doing business again in the future. That dude is awesome and has my respect. So if anyone has doubts about his business, him personally or how he treats his customers, let this be a testament to that.

I appreciate that great update  Very good news that the person stands behind his product and has that type of integrity.
I'm interested in hearing how it goes with the replacement. 

[newday777]

That is a great update !

[Ellz10]

***Update*** Solved ***


So I did end up sending out just the main unit back to BJ to be exchanged. Ended up only costing $66 - I made sure to checkmark that it was a returned item to avoid fees and taxes. Took about 3.5 weeks to get there. However, when I did see that it had arrived, it didn't arrive at his shop, it was dropped off at a collection point (never heard of this). So I emailed him and let him so where it was and he said he knew and that he'd go pick it up. Fast forward an hour or so and come to find out they're telling him that he needs to pay €161 to collect it. They tried saying it wasn't a returned good when I even have my copy of customs paperwork that I filled out when I sent it stating that it was. So obviously he declined, which I would have to, and proceeded to tell me something I DID NOT expect. He said he was going to go ahead and just send me a new unit for all the troubles and everything else. I was and still am blown away by this gesture of goodwill, honestly. You really don't find or meet people that have that level of respect and integrity these days. And like I told him, I will definitely be doing business again in the future. That dude is awesome and has my respect. So if anyone has doubts about his business, him personally or how he treats his customers, let this be a testament to that.

I appreciate that great update  Very good news that the person stands behind his product and has that type of integrity.
I'm interested in hearing how it goes with the replacement. 

It arrived yesterday, only took almost 2.5 weeks this time (really fast!) And boy let me tell ya, this thing is BEAUTIFUL! Super shiny, no debris and absolutely magnificent. I'm even more stoked now to watch it function!

That is a great update !

Absolutely. It's sad that we live in a world these days where these types of people are so far and few between, but it let's me know not to give up hope - there are still genuinely good people!

[gschuld]

Excellent.  I’ve been impressed by Bert Jan myself.

George

[wannabridin]

Wow!  What a great update!!  Can't wait to see more pics!!

[Bert Jan]

Since this topic seems to be an important reference for those interested in the kit, i'd figured i'd post the 4 product video's here as well.

Intro

What's in the box

Tools you'll need

In the workshop

[Ellz10]

I just received my sump thing. It looks like a great quality part. Just a couple of things...there are no instructions in the installation manual for priming the pump as it would be very difficult to prime using the typical "pump in a bucket of oil" method. Second, the area in the sump thing that has been machined away to allow clearance for the drive gear on the pump looks a little small...like maybe the gear could contact the sump thing if the gear walks out a little. Thoughts anyone?

I followed the instructions you can download from the sumpthing website to attach the oil pump to the sumpthing.

You NEED to prime the pump again, and it is difficult because now the oil pump is attached and built around the sumpthing.

I took the whole assembly, bought a tub just big enough to fit the whole assembly and bought 5 quarts of oil to completely sumbmerge the whole thing. Primed it as you normally would by spinning the gear, then installed on the bike. (its a messy job, have lots of towels handy) After installation wipe off the oil on the outside with some brake cleaner.

Then I poured 3 quarts of the oil through a valve cover to fill the sumpthing, and saved the extra 2 quarts of oil for a future oil change.

Just run it. It is a quality piece, I havent had any reason to believe the gear was hitting any part of the sump

One thing I have also found: on most of these pumps the thin paper gasket in between the pump and its baseplate has broken down and doesn't seal real well. This reduces the pickup suction by a surprising amount! Once it gets wetted and oil is keeping it wet, it will have suction, but not as much as if you swap out the thin gasket for the new one.

I concur with this, 100%. I used the paper thin gasket provided and it leaked before the bike was even started. I went ahead and ordered 2 Cometic oil pan gaskets. Installing today, shouldn't have any more problems.

Also, re-priming the pump today - its gunna be SO much messy fun.. NOT!  🤣

[Ellz10]

Solved!

Took apart, re-primed the pump and got pressure after a nice long crank with the starter. Just takes a bit longer.

FYI, I have even better pressure with the sumpthing!

How long did you crank the starter for continuously?

[Bert Jan]

I just received my sump thing. It looks like a great quality part. Just a couple of things...there are no instructions in the installation manual for priming the pump as it would be very difficult to prime using the typical "pump in a bucket of oil" method. Second, the area in the sump thing that has been machined away to allow clearance for the drive gear on the pump looks a little small...like maybe the gear could contact the sump thing if the gear walks out a little. Thoughts anyone?

I followed the instructions you can download from the sumpthing website to attach the oil pump to the sumpthing.

You NEED to prime the pump again, and it is difficult because now the oil pump is attached and built around the sumpthing.

I took the whole assembly, bought a tub just big enough to fit the whole assembly and bought 5 quarts of oil to completely sumbmerge the whole thing. Primed it as you normally would by spinning the gear, then installed on the bike. (its a messy job, have lots of towels handy) After installation wipe off the oil on the outside with some brake cleaner.

Then I poured 3 quarts of the oil through a valve cover to fill the sumpthing, and saved the extra 2 quarts of oil for a future oil change.

Just run it. It is a quality piece, I havent had any reason to believe the gear was hitting any part of the sump

One thing I have also found: on most of these pumps the thin paper gasket in between the pump and its baseplate has broken down and doesn't seal real well. This reduces the pickup suction by a surprising amount! Once it gets wetted and oil is keeping it wet, it will have suction, but not as much as if you swap out the thin gasket for the new one.

I concur with this, 100%. I used the paper thin gasket provided and it leaked before the bike was even started. I went ahead and ordered 2 Cometic oil pan gaskets. Installing today, shouldn't have any more problems.

Also, re-priming the pump today - its gunna be SO much messy fun.. NOT!  🤣

What gasket leaked and why? Please explain as good as possible. I’m constantly trying to improve the kit and the information from you guys helps loads. Thanks!

[Bert Jan]

Sorry for resurrecting this topic. I’m just trying to keep stuff as up-to-date as possible.
I’m currently (November 16/17/18 2023) running a Black Friday Discount on the kit.
I’ve reduced the price in the webshop so no need for fancy discount codes or anything.
Normal price is 499,- EU, now only 439,- EU which should basicly cover worldwide free shipping.