Topic: Inexpensive DOT vs Proven

[mscuiletti]

I see lots of comments about avoiding inexpensive gear, especially helmets, as that is not the place to be cheap. I get it and agree, but was curious as to why. For example, the new Torc T1 Retro helmet is DOT and ECE 22.05 certified, but costs half what the Bell Bullitt and a fraction of the Hedon Heroine helmets cost. I am sure the quality of materials is reflected in the cost, but would that make the helmet less safe or just feel cheaper and have less options? The Torc seems to have similar options as the Bell.

The reason I ask is that I am wrapping up my first build and have reached out to enroll in the basic rider education course, which starts in March. I need to pick up a helmet for the class. They provide a small motorcycle, so i figured I could see how I like it before spending more on nicer gear. As much as i LOVE the look of the Heroine, and the Bullitt, I don't know if I want to drop the cash in case I end up not loving to ride. On the flip side, I rather have the best helmet I can afford and not regret wasting money on a temporary helmet. Thoughts? Opinions?

[Yamahawk]

I looked at the full face ones, and they are $199, but here is a nice retro 3/4 helmet with DOT approval, that might get you started. Free shipping also. $40 isn't bad, and they have gloss white, black, and Union Jack graphic...
Charlie
https://www.ebay.com/itm/T50-Torc-3-4-Open-Face-Motorcycle-Scooter-Helmet-DOT-Cafe-Racer-Retro-Vintage-US/401412115418?epid=2275504943&hash=item5d7606cbda:m:m4hCvMwCENUhXbgbudHonFg

[madmtnmotors]

For me it came down to fit. Almost all helmets, regardless of cost, would exert uncomfortable pressure across my forehead to the point that I would have a headache within two hours (or less). I almost gave up riding until I found the Arai "long oval" helmets. I usually seek out "clearance" models to get them at near 50% off (as a current model is being phased out or a particular graphic is being discontinued), but it still took quite a leap of faith to spend $375 on a helmet (that retails for $600 to $800). I'm glad I did too, since I can now ride all day (I've ridden up to 12 hours) and the joy of riding has been restored.

[bear]

My thoughts, opinions re; helmets.

Gov specs such as DOT indicate what is considered the minimum safety standard.
Helmet pricing may not indicate its quality or integrity so I suggest you do your homework.

All helmets are" temporary." One use only just like a cars air bag.
I'd like to think you consider your head a more permanent fixture.

If (God forbid) in the event of a major accident unlikely as that might be, you rely on a minimum spec helmet you are more likely to suffer catastrophic injury or worse.

Don't buy a helmet as a fashion accessory.
Don't buy a helmet to keep the cops or your mother off your back.
Don't buy a helmet trying to save a buck.

Buy a helmet to protect what's important to both you and your family.....your life.

A lot of people will quite happily spend a wad of cash on some "go fast bit" for their bike but baulk
at paying a couple of hundred for a quality helmet. Don't be one of those people.

It's unlikly you will suffer a major accident if you ride long term, but you could and it might be the first ride or the last ride you decide to take. So the old cop out "I'll get a better helmet later if I like it"
doesn't really cut it in my opinion.

So go out get the best helmet you can afford , if your not sure what that is remember Google is your friend and enjoy the ride.

Cheers,
Brian

[Bankerdanny]

The thing is that the most expensive helmet you can afford isn't necessarily the best, which was the OP's original point/question.

The answer is complicated. DOT and other standards are a minimum acceptable level and they are pass/fail ratings. A $300 helmet might have passed with far less damage than a $129 helmet. The problem is that as far as I know nobody posts the actual results of the tests in such a way as to explain why that $600 Schuberth is a better helmet than a similar styled $199 Cycle Gear house brand (which I personally own).

Absent any way to really know I generally go for middle of the road helmets that are well reviewed.

[bear]

The thing is that the most expensive helmet you can afford isn't necessarily the best, which was the OP's original point/question.

The answer is complicated. DOT and other standards are a minimum acceptable level and they are pass/fail ratings. A $300 helmet might have passed with far less damage than a $129 helmet. The problem is that as far as I know nobody posts the actual results of the tests in such a way as to explain why that $600 Schuberth is a better helmet than a similar styled $199 Cycle Gear house brand (which I personally own).

Absent any way to really know I generally go for middle of the road helmets that are well reviewed.

Very true, as I said. The best helmet you can afford not the most expensive you can afford.

[mscuiletti]

Thanks for the responses. I don't want a cheap helmet nor just a fashion accessory, so I'll avoid those options. Many of the helmets I have looked into, such as the Bell Bullitt list their certifications, which are the same as every other helmet. Because of this, I was unsure if say, a Bell Bullitt is indeed a quality helmet or maybe the Bell Star would be safer. Are the retro themed helmets that are made from the same materials less safe than an AGV Pista for example? I am not sure how to tell if an AGV would be better, or maybe a Schuberth. In the end fitment would be the final decider but I only want to try on helmets that would function as best as possible during a crash. Hedon sounds and looks gorgous, is reviewed well, but is still a mix of carbon and fiberglass like many of the other helmets. I suppose the cost goes to premium materials over the AGV X3000 for example.

[Bankerdanny]

The answer is complicated. DOT and other standards are a minimum acceptable level and they are pass/fail ratings. A $300 helmet might have passed with far less damage than a $129 helmet. The problem is that as far as I know nobody posts the actual results of the tests in such a way as to explain why that $600 Schuberth is a better helmet than a similar styled $199 Cycle Gear house brand (which I personally own).

As far as crash results, that is true. Because the TESTS don't require explanations, only certification. As for why a helmet costs $600 or more, it comes down to features ABOVE the certifications. Ventilation, noise suppression, helmet weight, size of visibility, integrated shades/modular chins, etc. All this requires more engineering and thus raises prices.

If you have a $0.05 head, buy a cheap helmet. Bear is right, its your life and if you don't value it much, buy a fashion accessory. If you value your life (because the helmet is THE MOST CRITICAL safety component on a motorcycle) then spend all you can afford to buy a quality helmet that fits great, is lightweight (neck fatigue contributes to safety) and has the quietest ride (high frequency noise while riding leads to deafness).

Inexpensive doesn't necessarily mean "cheap". I agree that you should avoid the brain buckets, which are technically better than nothing, but not much. I don't even like to wear a 3/4 helmet for the most part. I like a chin bar so that if I go down I have something protecting my face if I slide down the road.

I wear a Bilt (Cycle Gear's house brand) Techno 2.0 modular with build in Blue Tooth https://www.cyclegear.com/gear/bilt-techno-20-sena-bluetooth-modular-helmet It lists for $319 right now, but I got mine on sale for about $200. It is heavier than an equivalent Schuberth, noisier too I imagine, but I always wear ear plugs anyway, and I spent 100+ hours on the road during my trip last Summer without any noticeable helmet related fatigue.

I value my head as much as anyone and don't think that my modestly priced helmet is only 50% as good as the Schuberth.

[slikwilli420]

I like the HJC helmets. AHRMA requires Snell certification and just updated the rules for 2015 rated helmets only, no more 2010 helmets. HJC offers arguably the best helmet for the money on the market. At $200, its packed with features like locking visor, tons of vents, and best, fits MY head very well, with no noticeable pressure points. Find a few that FIT right and are certified (Snell/DOT/etc.), then pick the one that has the right features for you and in your price range.

[dave500]

the cheapest helmets may be heavier,have more wind noise and perhaps less peripheral vision,the inside padding might compress earlier not lasting long then not fit well,the nice new external finish may not last long and the visors can dull and scratch easier and replacements might be hard to get,i cant justify a $1000 helmet when something mid priced from any well know maker is just as good in quality,just don't buy cheap cheap cheap.

[Sam Green Racing]

I think slickwilli hit the nail on the head when he said this.

Find a few that FIT right and are certified (Snell/DOT/etc.), then pick the one that has the right features for you and in your price range.

Some racing certification rules are stricter but it still doesn't mean a helmet won't let you down, look what happened to me in a 35mph crash and the bike made contact with my helmet. Mine was to the highest standard on the planet and was quite expensive.   

[Yamahawk]

For us racers, we have to retire our helmets 5 years after the date inside of manufacture. Many street rider, wears their helmet until the liner wears out, or they have an accident... when a racer's helmet hits the ground, it is considered no longer safe, and we must purchase another one. I have seen full face helmets not protect any better than a 3/4 helmet. So, to make an informed decision, we need information. Here are the links to Snell 2015, DOT certification, and ECE standards.

Snell 2015
http://www.smf.org/standards/m/2015/M2015FinalFinal

DOT
http://smf.org/docs/articles/dot

ECE
https://www.webbikeworld.com/ece-22-05-motorcycle-helmet-standard/

And here is an explanation of all three.
https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2013/04/08/motorcycle-helmet-standards-explained-dot-ece-22-05-snell/

Charlie

[MoMo]

couple years ago I read a long test report on helmets that said to look for both DOT and Snell approval.  One of the helmets that was highly rated and rather inexpensive was the Z1R helmet.  I have two, one was a very lucky close -out find for $20. the other was less than $100.  Can't remember where the article was unfortunately....Larry

[madmtnmotors]

Comprehensive testing results:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/automobiles/27SNELL.html


and the resulting fallout:

https://jalopnik.com/5582380/5582380/how-the-truth-about-motorcycle-helmets-got-a-journalist-fired


and a rebuttal:

http://www.smf.org/docs/articles/pdf/btlo_tech_response_2.pdf


Those three items should clear things up...     

[Terry in Australia]

Back in the day Bell had an effective advertising motto, "If you have a $10 head, buy a $10 helmet. If your head is worth more, buy a Bell." When some lowlife stole my Arai I spent big bucks and bought a shiny new Bell Tour Star, which turned out to be a heavy ill fitting POS that produced probably the worst wind noise of any helmet I've ever owned. Shortly afterwards I sold a kid a Suzy TS250 and threw in the Bell as he couldn't afford a new helmet, I still don't know if I did the right thing.............

I fell in love with flip front helmets a few years ago and bought an Italian made Nolan, a magnificent piece, and the first thing I've ever bought from Italy that doesn't leak oil. I retired it when the visor would no longer stay up, which was my fault, I took the visor off to clean it and somehow busted a couple of tabs off. I must buy another Nolan.

One thing to be careful of are Chinese helmets with DOT or Snell stickers on them, if they're cheap, they're probably fake. I've got an $80 Chinese fake carbon fibre flip front helmet with a Snell sticker on it, but it's really poor build quality, and if it wasn't so damn comfortable, I'd throw it in the trash. Lucky for me, I've obviously got a $10 head...........  

[dave500]

with inflation its now a $7.35 head terry!

[Yamahawk]

with inflation its now a $7.35 head terry!

That's deflation lol... have to buy a smaller helmet when that happens
Charlie

[mscuiletti]

Thanks again for all of the advice. One final question. I noticed that many helmets seem designed around a certain riding stance, so the vents for example, don't function as well when riding upright versus tucked, such as the Bell Race Star. I do have clip-ons and rear-sets now, but should I be ruling out these more aggressive helmets? I am talking specifically about the AGV Corsa, AGV Pista, Bell Star, Schuburth SR2,and the Shoei RF-1200.

[dave500]

ya heads never in the same place,its up and down and all sorts of angles all over the place,unless your a sponsored road racer?just get a mid priced road full face road helmet,dont over think it,good gloves are a must!,the first thing if you do if you go flying is stick your palms out to save your head instinctively.

[Yamahawk]

ya heads never in the same place,its up and down and all sorts of angles all over the place,unless your a sponsored road racer?just get a mid priced road full face road helmet,dont over think it,good gloves are a must!,the first thing if you do if you go flying is stick your palms out to save your head instinctively.

Funny story... I was in a Suzuki dealer in Toledo back in 1985, looking at Brooks Chaps as they had them on sale for $99. I had my Brooks leather jacket over my shoulder, and in came Joe Rocket racer lookalike with his Oakley sunglasses on his forehead, and in shorts, tank top, and sandals... it was 85 degrees out, though... he looked at my jacket, and said it must be cold out hehe... I told him , no I wear it for my allergies.. he said "allergies?" and I said, yeah.. I'm allergic to road rash...
looking over at His girlfriend, (looking Real nice in her halter top and short shorts and flip-flops (thongs),) I asked him do you know the first thing a girl loses in a motorcycle crash is the skin off the palms of her hands? (Extending hands palm out) Do you know what the 2nd thing is...? (As I jerked my hands back) HER T*TS! I told him I like my wife's, and I wrap them in leather...
( That was told to me by an EMT, as he had seen MANY wrecks involving scantily clad females...they usually have to have reconstructive surgery, losing their nipples... )
Protective equipment is a choice, and if you are going to ride, you should get the equipment that will benefit your riding style and climate conditions. And ALWAYS protect your passenger the best way you can. Any helmet, is better than no helmet.. but that, too is a choice.
Charlie

[Stev-o]

+1 proper fit is a must. 

I have a few helmets, my Arai is prolly the best, the 3/4 HJC is most comfortable for cruising around the 'hood.

[Yamahawk]

There ya go! Nothing wrong with a 3/4 helmet, wore several in the 70's and 80's. Now, I remember in 1974, a fellow I knew had a Suzuki GT550 triple. Fast bike... he was going to give me a ride around the parking lot at Howard Aamon park in Richland, WA. right on the Columbia river. As I raised my right leg to swing on the back, he revved it up and popped the clutch, and thankfully, he pulled right out from under me. 6 seconds later, at 60mph estimated in 3rd gear, he hit a parking bumper, and flew into a 3ft wooden light pole, and the back of his full face helmet hit first, pushing his face through the lower chin area, removing his jaw and that part of the helmet in the process... it wouldn't have mattered which type of helmet he wore, I believe he would have been dead anyway. Perhaps he would have left a better looking corpse with the 3/4 helmet, maybe not...
Charlie

[mscuiletti]

I just ordered the Shoei RF-1200. I'll try it on once it arrives, hopefully I really do have an intermediate oval head. It will be good to have some time to wear it around the house before my rider education course, so I can alleviate any pain points, provided it fits well.

[Terry in Australia]

What's a 3/4 helmet Charlie? Is that another term for an open face?

[J-Rod10]

It is, Terry.


Personally, I wear an Arai. It's the only lid I have found I can stand to wear for more than a hour. Others seem to squeeze in all the wrong places.

Outside of fitting properly, it's quiet, and light weight.

IMO, the most important thing you should look for in a lid, is one that fits your head properly.