Author Topic: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters  (Read 6113 times)

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Offline DaveBarbier

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Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« on: February 20, 2018, 10:51:17 AM »
The movement is about not giving the shooters, either alive or dead, the fame that they are craving. It’s been shown that many shooters have said that they know the way to be famous overnight is to commit a mass shooting. Guaranteed fame. Having their name everywhere with pictures of them with their guns in menacing poses almost makes them into a movie villain when they’re actually cowards.

There’s a thing called suicide contagion where studies show that the more you show a suicide victim’s name, the more suicides will occur and many journalists don’t say the name specifically to help prevent more suicides.
https://www.hhs.gov/answers/mental-health-and-substance-abuse/what-does-suicide-contagion-mean/index.html

You’ll hear some police and journalists say they won’t speak the criminal’s name or show their face to stop giving them the exposure but that’s such a small portion because the news loves clicks and the public want a person they can visualize to direct their hate towards.

I’m all for it and I haven’t heard any real pushback. I think it’s an interesting thought and it would be nice to see it become a part of the journalistic doctrine.

Offline flybox1

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2018, 11:50:00 AM »
So...shootings we cant do anything about, but lets just be sure not to give the shooters props after....smfh.
Sorry,  Ive got 4 kids in school and this subject gets me fired up. >:(
Guns, are not going away.  Crazy people, are not going away.
How about we focus on getting TSA/airport/federal building level security and metal detectors at all schools and put an end to guns getting into schools, altogether.  It works in gov't buildings, courthouses, airports, etc..... why not put it in schools, too?   "No Gun Zone" signs will not keep crazy people with guns out of schools.

....and your childs right to privacy/feelings are not more important than my childs life. 

So, politicians....get it done.  Raise taxes.  I'll pay.  Anyone NOT willing to pay is an accessory....

Sorry for the rant.

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Offline KeithB

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2018, 11:54:02 AM »
I agree that it would be interesting to see this implemented.
However, until journalism gets back to facts and in depth information and not the "shocking events of the day", it will not happen.
Most viewers don't give a #$%* about facts and good reporting and just want a circus and these criminals play right into that ::)
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Offline jlh3rd

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2018, 12:45:42 PM »
Let any teacher that has a license to carry, carry in the school, IF they want to....No one has to know, except him and people that need to know. Let the word get out across the nation that school personnel are armed....simple, effective and cheap...
  ..but not gonna happen ...

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2018, 12:47:06 PM »
So...shootings we cant do anything about, but lets just be sure not to give the shooters props after....smfh.

Fly, I hope you understand that this is something that can help prevent future shootings.

Offline ofreen

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2018, 01:27:42 PM »
I think it’s an interesting thought and it would be nice to see it become a part of the journalistic doctrine.

The media in whatever form has always glorified, glamorized and sensationalized evil people. It is why Bonnie and Clyde. Dillinger, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, the Unabomber dude, and the Clintons  ;D are all famous.  Evil people and their doings are their bread and butter and they won’t give that up.  It is a nice thought though.

Google  “If it bleeds, it leads.” The short Psychology Today article from 2011 sums it up very well
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Offline flybox1

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2018, 01:54:32 PM »
So...shootings we cant do anything about, but lets just be sure not to give the shooters props after....smfh.

Fly, I hope you understand that this is something that can help prevent future shootings.
Assuming ALL shooters/murderers were in it for the fame.  Sure, it would help.
That's just not good enough for me. 
I'm sure there are many retired military/law enforcement who would jump at the chance to protect schoolchildren.....
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Offline Yamahawk

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2018, 02:16:31 PM »
+1 Dave,
   I would support a Bill that states it is unlawful for any news media to give more than extremely limited news coverage to mass shootings, or any glory killing, and especially to suicides. No name of the shooter, etc... and you know, I purposely forgot the fellow who shot John Lennon, to not give him a place in my History...  I believe that news is designed to create more and more discord and anger, and shootings and just about anything evil or negative that can be done.. and, I understand who is Behind It. It is the evil.. da evil... d evil. He wants to kill, steal, and destroy anyone or anything he can. And, if we do not recognize it, he is free to do what he wants. He can't stand the Light of being revealed. He lives in darkness... Light and Dark are two things we talk about, but only One can be measured... only Light has a measurement, as Dark is the absence of Light. Just as we talk about Good and Evil, there is only one that can be quantified.. and that is Good... evil is the absence of Good.
Let's take back the darkness, and shine a Light to eliminate it.
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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2018, 02:22:11 PM »
Well, at least those a-holes from that church that likes to go to funerals and say that the victims deserved it for their "un-godly" behavior have not tried to do their schtick in Parkland.
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Offline Stev-o

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2018, 02:51:53 PM »
So...shootings we cant do anything about, but lets just be sure not to give the shooters props after....smfh.

Fly, I hope you understand that this is something that can help prevent future shootings.
Assuming ALL shooters/murderers were in it for the fame.  Sure, it would help.


But they are all NOT in it for the fame.  I'm sure revenge will come into one of these sick twisted minds. You'll never sop "media hype".

I also have a daughter in school and this is a big issue with no solution in sight. Even if we voted to get all schools metal detectors today, how long would that take? And how many for a large campus with multiple buildings? Logistics nightmare.

There have been 18 shootings in schools so far this year!  Unbelievable.


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Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2018, 03:17:35 PM »
So...shootings we cant do anything about, but lets just be sure not to give the shooters props after....smfh.

Fly, I hope you understand that this is something that can help prevent future shootings.
Assuming ALL shooters/murderers were in it for the fame.  Sure, it would help.
That's just not good enough for me. 
I'm sure there are many retired military/law enforcement who would jump at the chance to protect schoolchildren.....

Well, I am certain that it’s not ALL shooters in the past and future. But if a majority or even a large minority are looking for fame or some sort of martyrdom then of course it’s a good thing. I mean, if 4 shootings out of 10 can be prevented what crazy person would say it’s not worth it?

You say it’s not good enough for you but I think it’s obvious that no one, including me, is saying that this is the only thing that needs to be done or should be done, but this should be part of what’s done. Other things to look at are mental health and access to firearms. Upping the security at schools to prison level is ridiculous. For example, that wouldn’t have done a damn thing for the Vegas shooting.

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2018, 03:28:34 PM »
+1 Dave,
   I would support a Bill that states it is unlawful for any news media to give more than extremely limited news coverage to mass shootings, or any glory killing, and especially to suicides. No name of the shooter, etc...

There are times where that information is good for the public. Like if the shooter is still at large. There are probably other scenarios that I can’t think of but I totally agree that it should be extremely limited. I also think coverage of the event is important though, especially to show the real heroes who always emerge out of these kinds of events.

I am weary of any law that limits the first amendment so I wouldn’t support a bill that does this. I just think a law isn’t required for this. I want it to be part of a code of ethics for journalists and I want the public to be aware why we don’t speak the name or show their face and the public should vilify any news agency who does.

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2018, 03:38:20 PM »
I urge you guys to have a look at the movement’s website. Especially the ‘data|experts’ portion where it links to studies showing this “mass killing contagion” is a real phenomenon.

https://nonotoriety.com/

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0117259

https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-mass-killers-want8212and-how-to-stop-them-1383957068

Offline flybox1

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2018, 05:24:48 PM »
School security at airport security levels is certainly not like that of a prison, and it doesnt need to be.
Students could still come and go as their schedule allowed, but entering or re-entering the school would require a trip to one or 2 designated entry/exit checkpoints.
Airports put this in nationwide over the course of 1-2 years, and yes, it cost the taxpayers, but id be willing to pay as long as im alive to prevent more of this insanity.
These fukcers are ruining too many good lives....

I'm not disagreeing with you, Dave....these guys should get no press, and taken to dark places to be punished, over and over, and yes, these are not the only solutions.  Just pieces of the puzzle.
Guns will always be around.  Mentally ill people will still find a way to get guns. 
Preventing unwanted guns from entering schools in the first place is the low hanging fruit.
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Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2018, 06:40:31 PM »
School security at airport security levels is certainly not like that of a prison, and it doesnt need to be.
Students could still come and go as their schedule allowed, but entering or re-entering the school would require a trip to one or 2 designated entry/exit checkpoints.
Airports put this in nationwide over the course of 1-2 years, and yes, it cost the taxpayers, but id be willing to pay as long as im alive to prevent more of this insanity.
These fukcers are ruining too many good lives....

I'm not disagreeing with you, Dave....these guys should get no press, and taken to dark places to be punished, over and over, and yes, these are not the only solutions.  Just pieces of the puzzle.
Guns will always be around.  Mentally ill people will still find a way to get guns. 
Preventing unwanted guns from entering schools in the first place is the low hanging fruit.

A reason I don’t like the metal detector and upped security for schools is it seems it’s just a bandaid. So if the “crazy people who will always get guns” can’t go into a school but still want to commit a mass shooting they will go to a movie theater or a church, or wait outside a concert venue or go to a park. So, what...we just now say any place where there are more than 10 people has to have a high level of security as a deterrent?

Honest question, if churches become a much more dangerous place and shootings take place more often there will you suggest churches to also have guards and metal detectors? Then if it moves to super markets, etc?

I’m just saying it’s not the schools that are the problem. And yes, you can say that I’m being hypocritical because I just said that any means to prevent deaths is good and metal detectors will probably prevent deaths, so I guess I have to say that I’m not against it, but I think applying knowledge and psychology and statistics and critical thinking is a better way to go rather than what seems to be a quick over simplified solution. Again, it’s not just schools so if there’s something that can be done to try and minimize the shootings themselves rather than focusing on location specific fixes...then...

I know you agree and you obviously have your heart in this and have thought about this a lot but I just wanted to try to get people thinking of a different kind of solution.

Offline BPellerine

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2018, 01:28:21 PM »
ethics and journalists if you want to call them that,havent seen that combo for a long time.bill
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Offline Gene

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2018, 01:43:15 PM »
We just need to do something to make it harder to kill each other.
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Offline chewbacca5000

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2018, 07:01:36 PM »
So...shootings we cant do anything about, but lets just be sure not to give the shooters props after....smfh.
Sorry,  Ive got 4 kids in school and this subject gets me fired up. >:(
Guns, are not going away.  Crazy people, are not going away.
How about we focus on getting TSA/airport/federal building level security and metal detectors at all schools and put an end to guns getting into schools, altogether.  It works in gov't buildings, courthouses, airports, etc..... why not put it in schools, too?   "No Gun Zone" signs will not keep crazy people with guns out of schools.

....and your childs right to privacy/feelings are not more important than my childs life. 

So, politicians....get it done.  Raise taxes.  I'll pay.  Anyone NOT willing to pay is an accessory....

Sorry for the rant.

fb

One other person suggested TSA for schools.  I have to agree with you as this seems like the only workable solution.

As for the fame or no fame I am too sad to think about that stuff.  I saw a clip on snapchat and it was incredible disturbing to me.  My heart goes out to the parents of the children.

 

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2018, 07:34:18 PM »
We just need to do something to make it harder to kill each other.
Stop forcing them together like sardines in a can.

Or rats in confinement.  See: "Behavioral sink" and the history of Easter Island.

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2018, 08:15:46 PM »
As for arming teachers, I think you are going to have to pay those teachers hazard pay -- they barely get paid enough to teach, but if they are going to put their lives at risk, they better get training and (if they want) body armor.  The school districts are going to be liable for them, too, so the districts might not be too thrilled about a barely trained, extra gun, especially if one mucks up and shoots a good guy OR gets plugged when they freeze trying to unholster their weapon OR get sued.  I'm not sure if anyone has thought this idea through, but hey if they can make it work effectively and safely  . . .


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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2018, 10:50:53 PM »
Saw some stuff on this on the news here yesterday, couldn't normally care less about people killing each other but one chant the students had going seemed to ring true....

" NRA, NRA,  how many kids did you kill today "

Seems to me that if you want people to stop doing these mass culls you need to get rid of the means to do it....we had a few in Australia so now basically the only people with guns here are dumbarse crimes and dumbarse cops and they tend to mostly use them on each other so everybodys happy.

But I see the US point of view that its your constitutional right to possess the means with which to commit mass murder even if you have no intention of doing so.
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2018, 12:43:20 AM »
Good intentions aside, none of the increased security measures promised by Donald Trump, or those suggested above will make any difference at all. A nut with a large calibre semi-auto long arm won't be deterred by a metal detector or a school teacher with a pistol, remember, with very few exceptions, these d1ckheads WANT to die in a blaze of glory, so if they think there's a fire fight to be had, they'll be lining up outside the schools in anticipation.

It's been said above that guns aren't going away, and we all know that mental illness is here to stay, so sadly we'll all be back commenting on another massacre, at another school, or shopping mall, or cinema, soon. Keep your heads down.
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Offline mick7504

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2018, 02:57:01 AM »
Good intentions aside, none of the increased security measures promised by Donald Trump, or those suggested above will make any difference at all. A nut with a large calibre semi-auto long arm won't be deterred by a metal detector or a school teacher with a pistol, remember, with very few exceptions, these d1ckheads WANT to die in a blaze of glory, so if they think there's a fire fight to be had, they'll be lining up outside the schools in anticipation.

It's been said above that guns aren't going away, and we all know that mental illness is here to stay, so sadly we'll all be back commenting on another massacre, at another school, or shopping mall, or cinema, soon. Keep your heads down.
Sad but true.
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Offline FuZZie

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2018, 04:12:02 AM »
Quote
these d1ckheads WANT to die in a blaze of glory

That's what this is about Terry, denying the glory. The problem I see is "freedom of the press" or "gun rights" and both seem to be nonstarters.

Offline Yamahawk

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Re: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2018, 04:49:00 AM »
The problem lies deeper than gun rights or the 1st Amendment rights to freedom of speech. It is a Heart Problem. We have taken God and His Son Jesus Christ out of schools, and replaced Him with... nothing. There is a hole in each person's heart that can only be filled by One thing. That is God. We are raising up the Last Generation now. Time Is Short... Get your house in order, as The King of Kings is coming soon. Here is George Washington's Inaugural Address... He knew and understood the importance of God in each area of our lives.

WASHINGTON'S INAUGURAL ADDRESS
OF 1789


A Transcription

                     [April 30, 1789]
Fellow Citizens of the Senate and the House of Representatives.
Among the vicissitudes incident to life, no event could have filled me with greater anxieties than that of which the notification was transmitted by your order, and received on the fourteenth day of the present month. On the one hand, I was summoned by my Country, whose voice I can never hear but with veneration and love, from a retreat which I had chosen with the fondest predilection, and, in my flattering hopes, with an immutable decision, as the asylum of my declining years: a retreat which was rendered every day more necessary as well as more dear to me, by the addition of habit to inclination, and of frequent interruptions in my health to the gradual waste committed on it by time. On the other hand, the magnitude and difficulty of the trust to which the voice of my Country called me, being sufficient to awaken in the wisest and most experienced of her citizens, a distrustful scrutiny into his qualifications, could not but overwhelm with dispondence, one, who, inheriting inferior endowments from nature and unpractised in the duties of civil administration, ought to be peculiarly conscious of his own deficiencies. In this conflict of emotions, all I dare aver, is, that it has been my faithful study to collect my duty from a just appreciation of eve ry circumstance, by which it might be affected. All I dare hope, is, that, if in executing this task I have been too much swayed by a grateful remembrance of former instances, or by an affectionate sensibility to this transcendent proof, of the confidence of my fellow-citizens; and have thence too little consulted my incapacity as well as disinclination for the weighty and untried cares before me; my error will be palliated by the motives which misled me, and its consequences be judged by my Country, with some share of the partiality in which they originated.
Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station; it would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official Act, my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the Universe, who presides in the Councils of Nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that his benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the People of the United States, a Government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes: and may enable every instrument employed in its administration to execute with success, the functions allotted to his charge. In tendering this homage to the Great Author of every public and private good I assure myself that it expresses your sentiments not less than my own; nor those of my fellow-citizens at large, less than either. No People can be bound to acknowledge and adore the invisible hand, which conducts the Affairs of men more than the People of the United States. Every step, by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation, seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency. And in the important revolution just accomplished in the system of their United Government, the tranquil deliberations and voluntary consent of so many distinct communities, from which the event has resulted, cannot be compared with the means by which most Governments have been established, without some return of pious gratitude along with an humble anticipation of the future blessings which the past seem to presage. These reflections, arising out of the present crisis, have forced themselves too strongly on my mind to be suppressed. You will join with me I trust in thinking, that there are none under the influence of which, the proceedings of a new and free Government can more auspiciously commence.
By the article establishing the Executive Department, it is made the duty of the President "to recommend to your consideration, such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient." The circumstances under which I now meet you, will acquit me from entering into that subject, farther than to refer to the Great Constitutional Charter under which you are assembled; and which, in defining your powers, designates the objects to which your attention is to be given. It will be more consistent with those circumstances, and far more congenial with the feelings which actuate me, to substitute, in place of a recommendation of particular measures, the tribute that is due to the talents, the rectitude, and the patriotism which adorn the characters selected to devise and adopt them. In these honorable qualifications, I behold the surest pledges, that as on one side, no local prejudices, or attachments; no seperate views, nor party animosities, will misdirect the comprehensive and equal eye which ought to watch over this great assemblage of communities and interests: so, on another, that the foundations of our National policy will be laid in the pure and immutable principles of private morality; and the pre-eminence of a free Government, be exemplified by all the attributes which can win the affections of its Citizens, and command the respect of the world.
I dwell on this prospect with every satisfaction which an ardent love for my Country can inspire: since there is no truth more thoroughly established, than that there exists in the economy and course of nature, an indissoluble union between virtue and happiness, between duty and advantage, between the genuine maxims of an honest and magnanimous policy, and the solid rewards of public prosperity and felicity: Since we ought to be no less persuaded that the propitious smiles of Heaven, can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right, which Heaven itself has ordained: And since the preservation of the sacred fire of liberty, and the destiny of the Republican model of Government, are justly considered as deeply, perhaps as finally staked, on the experiment entrusted to the hands of the American people.
Besides the ordinary objects submitted to your care, it will remain with your judgment to decide, how far an exercise of the occasional power delegated by the Fifth article of the Constitution is rendered expedient at the present juncture by the nature of objections which have been urged against the System, or by the degree of inquietude which has given birth to them. Instead of undertaking particular recommendations on this subject, in which I could be guided by no lights derived from official opportunities, I shall again give way to my entire confidence in your discernment and pursuit of the public good: For I assure myself that whilst you carefully avoid every alteration which might endanger the benefits of an United and effective Government, or which ought to await the future lessons of experience; a reverence for the characteristic rights of freemen, and a regard for the public harmony, will sufficiently influence your deliberations on the question how far the former can be more impregnably fortified, or the latter be safely and advantageously promoted.
To the preceeding observations I have one to add, which will be most properly addressed to the House of Representatives. It concerns myself, and will therefore be as brief as possible. When I was first honoured with a call into the Service of my Country, then on the eve of an arduous struggle for its liberties, the light in which I contemplated my duty required that I should renounce every pecuniary compensation. From this resolution I have in no instance departed. And being still under the impressions which produced it, I must decline as inapplicable to myself, any share in the personal emoluments, which may be indispensably included in a permanent provision for the Executive Department; and must accordingly pray that the pecuniary estimates for the Station in which I am placed, may, during my continuance in it, be limited to such actual expenditures as the public good may be thought to require.
Having thus imported to you my sentiments, as they have been awakened by the occasion which brings us together, I shall take my present leave; but not without resorting once more to the benign parent of the human race, in humble supplication that since he has been pleased to favour the American people, with opportunities for deliberating in perfect tranquility, and dispositions for deciding with unparellelled unanimity on a form of Government, for the security of their Union, and the advancement of their happiness; so his divine blessing may be equally conspicuous in the enlarged views, the temperate consultations, and the wise measures on which the success of this Government must depend.
1971 CB750K1 (newest bike), 1996 Royal Enfield 500 Bullet (therapy bike), 1981 Yamaha XV920RH, 2006 Kawasaki Concours (retirement bike), 1975 Yamaha RD350 (race bike), 1989 Honda VTR250 Interceptor (race bike), 1986 Kawasaki EX250 Ninja (race bike in progress), 1985 Honda Elite CH250, 1973 Yamaha GT1 80cc, 1974 Yamaha DT360 project bike.

The Only Thing Necessary for Evil to Triumph, is for Good Men to do Nothing.
Edmund Burke

All Things work together for good, for those who love God and are the Called according to His purpose.
Romans 8:28

Though He slay me, Yet will I trust Him...
Job 13:15
will you trust Him...?