Topic: Thoughts on the No Notoriety movement for mass shooters

[DaveBarbier]

The freedom of the press situation is one I’ve been seeing as I read more about this. But there wouldn’t (or shouldn’t) have to be a law for the journalists to not name the shooters. They already abide by these rules for children and sexual assault victims. Just another set of people for them to decide not to name.

One interesting thing I was reading about in a research article linking to various studies, was that the more an event is covered the more likely a copycat will commit a similar act soon. It seems obvious, but it’s interesting to read about. Most shootings have a contagion period of about 13.5 days and school shootings are a little more, like 22 days. It’s actually weirdly similar in pattern to contagion in infectious disease. Police and FBI know this and plan accordingly.

Also, quite a few of the recent shooters have mentioned inspiration from the Columbine event. Some even have little ‘shrines’ to the killers and have even made pilgrimages to the Columbine site.

To arming the teachers, I think that’s the stupidest thing ever to be proposed. First, a recent poll says about 70% of teachers wouldn’t carry even if there was a law saying they had to. And those in the military who run/ran CQB simulations know how difficult and how much training you need to shoot in tight spaces with friendlies running around when no one is wearing “good guy and bad guy shirts”. You want the teachers to do this? Will there be weekly mandatory training? If a student is of legal age should they also be armed? How about the kid who’s mentally unstable that has a legal gun in the school just to shoot people? More guns in the school is NOT the answer, is so obvious.

Also, the more prevalent gun ownership is in a particular area, the significantly more likely a child/young adult will be involved in a suicide or homicide.

[FuZZie]

Also, quite a few of the recent shooters have mentioned inspiration from the Columbine event. Some even have little ‘shrines’ to the killers and have even made pilgrimages to the Columbine site.

That is just sick!

[DaveBarbier]

The problem lies deeper than gun rights or the 1st Amendment rights to freedom of speech. It is a Heart Problem. We have taken God and His Son Jesus Christ out of schools...

Couldn’t disagree more,

[FuZZie]

The freedom of the press situation is one I’ve been seeing as I read more about this. But there wouldn’t (or shouldn’t) have to be a law for the journalists to not name the shooters. They already abide by these rules for children and sexual assault victims. Just another set of people for them to decide not to name.

That's reasonable if they could get it done.

[FuZZie]

The most compelling article I have read about these events is that over the past 50 years in the US, more than 98% have occurred in Gun Free Zones. That to me is the simple logical explanation for hardening these sites. You only need to remove that restriction o cause a deterrent. It’s not “that faculty are armed”, but that “they might be”.

Was that available online anywhere I could read that article?

[Yamahawk]

Fuzzle,
  Here's a nice editorial about Gun Control and how well it works, say.. in Chicago.

Good piece….
 
Commentary (Wayne Allen Root)

There is only one issue in America this week: the mass murder at the Florida high school carried out by Nikolas Cruz. It was shocking. It was tragic. Unfortunately you’re also only hearing one side of the argument. This tragic mass murder is all liberals can think about because a gun was used to commit such a heinous act.
We’ve heard all week how guns kill, and we need more gun control, and we must ban the specific kind of rifle used in this terrible slaughter. But no one has mentioned that as terrible as it is to see 17 young lives snuffed out on one day, in one place…this same death toll and carnage happens EVERY WEEKEND in Chicago.
The typical Chicago weekend shooting toll is 15 to 20 dead, plus 30 to 50 wounded. I repeat- this happens every weekend. Almost every victim is young- just like those poor high school kids. Almost every victim is black. The city is run 100% by Democrats. It has the strictest gun control laws in the country.
Why aren’t 17 deaths a weekend more important than 17 deaths in one incident? Why doesn’t gun control work in Chicago (or anywhere else)? Why is black genocide happening in a city controlled 100% by Democrats? Doesn’t that concern black Democrats? These are questions rarely asked by the liberal mainstream media after a mass shooting.
Have you heard about the massive violent crime wave in the UK? I’m betting you haven’t. It doesn’t support the liberal narrative. Keep in mind in the UK guns are banned. Yet UK violent crime is exploding and far surpasses violent crime in America. Knife attacks are up by 40%. Should we ban knives? Should we institute immediate “knife control”?
In Mayor Sadiq Khan’s London, robbery was up by 29%, sex crimes up 23%, violent crime up 20%. But worst of all, acid attacks are skyrocketing. The number of victims being sprayed in the face with acid is so prevalent, London police now carry special devices designed for treating acid victims in Middle East war zones. Police admit London is now the GLOBAL CAPITAL for acid attacks. A former Labor Minister admits that there are “no go zones” all over London and the UK where deliverymen will not enter.
There were 5.3 million violent crimes in the UK and Wales last year. Very few of them needed a gun to destroy lives.
Then there’s the issue of FBI incompetence. It turns out Nikolas Cruz was reported to the FBI by a Mississippi bail bondsman last September after Cruz left a comment on YouTube that he was going to be “a professional school shooter.” It wasn’t an anonymous comment. The screen name was Nikolas Cruz. The FBI did nothing. They did manage to follow-up quickly with the bail bondsman after the shooting. Just as in repeated terrorism cases, another major fail for the FBI.
Coincidence? Maybe instead of faking evidence to FISA courts, illegally wiretapping a President, and wasting manpower on a “Russian collusion” wild goose chase, the FBI should be investigating real threats to our citizens.
Two more themes no one in the liberal mainstream media will say out loud.
Isn’t it time to discuss the role of Big Pharma and their mood-altering drugs in these mass murders? It seems like almost every mass murderer has prescription drugs in their system. Are we over-medicating an entire generation of young men with autism and ADD drugs, without acknowledging the changes in brain chemistry? Sure enough, it now appears Nikolas Cruz had autism and may have been taking prescription drugs. Guns don’t kill, but it appears people with mood-altering drugs do. Why won’t the mainstream media allow this debate? Could it be because Big Pharma pays for half the advertisements in the media?
Lastly, isn’t it time to discuss arming and training teachers and administrators for self-defense, so our children aren’t sitting ducks waiting to die in a classroom? Guns in the hands of good people save lives every day. Disarming schools hasn’t worked. As a matter of fact, virtually every mass shooting happens in a “Gun Free Zone.”
“The Great Gun Control Debate” rages. But these are the common sense stories and arguments you’re not hearing in the liberal-biased mainstream media.

Now, I haven't checked the accuracy of this article about the UK, but it can easily be done by those who live there. Let me know! I DO know the facts are in Chicago its open warfare on the streets every weekend... especially the 4th of July, where gunfire can blend in with the fireworks.
Charlie

[Yamahawk]

The problem lies deeper than gun rights or the 1st Amendment rights to freedom of speech. It is a Heart Problem. We have taken God and His Son Jesus Christ out of schools...

Couldn’t disagree more,

You have the ability to disagree.. now, what are your facts that support what you are disagreeing with? If it is a disbelief that there is an Almighty God, well, thats just not convincing. I Know there Is.
Charlie

[Yamahawk]

Cal, thanks for the research, it is all out there, but it doesn't fit with what the skewed news tells us.
Charlie

[Stev-o]

So....the breaking news yesterday was that there was an armed Deputy at the Parkland school and hid did nothing for 4 min while the shooting was going on.  Coward! He has since resigned.

Would an "armed guard" be a first logical step to do something to stop the madness?

I honestly do not see an end to the horrific tragedies that have been taking place in this country the last few years.

The wife and I are seriously considering selling out and moving way south to live carefree on a beach in Mexico! 
[I'd have to keep at least a couple bikes, but which ones?!]

[Yamahawk]

So....the breaking news yesterday was that there was an armed Deputy at the Parkland school and hid did nothing for 4 min while the shooting was going on.  Coward! He has since resigned.

Would an "armed guard" be a first logical step to do something to stop the madness?

I honestly do not see an end to the horrific tragedies that have been taking place in this country the last few years.

The wife and I are seriously considering selling out and moving way south to live carefree on a beach in Mexico! 
[I'd have to keep at least a couple bikes, but which ones?!]

Hehe... not a bad idea Steve, but better get a saddle scabbard on the bike, for the AK47 or AR-15 as violent crime is rampant in Mexico... Drug Cartels and the such... Costa Rica might be another alternative.
Charlie

[FuZZie]

Thanks cal good link, I did like the way he was on the facts too!

@ stevo it's not just in your county it's happened here too.

[jakec]

There was a very interesting interview released today by NY Times, they interview a psychologist who sort of debunks the idea that school shooters are all mentally ill. Not that is specifically what is being discussed here, but it's usually the primary argument used in defense of guns in these situations.

You can listen to it if you want :https://www.nytimes.com/podcasts/the-daily

[FuZZie]

She makes valid points jake. Smart lady and her last words are kind of chilling.

[Yamahawk]

In the last days.. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, without love for what is good, traitors, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God...
 2 Timothy 3:2-4
Charlie

[carnivorous chicken]

In the last days.. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, without love for what is good, traitors, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God...
 2 Timothy 3:2-4
Charlie

Unfortunately that doesn't help much.

People need to just accept the fact that guns have nothing to do with this, and Americans are so exceptional that they are just going to have to live with the occasional, I mean frequent, massacre of children. I mean, it's not guns. It can't be, right? Everybody knows that as soon as you want to take away AR-15s the next logical step is mind control and taking away every other right anyone can think of. Plus, what about the other ways children die? And what about those inner city folks in Chicago? Let's just all slap each other on the back for the serious handwringing that gets done for a day or two after each episode. All that handwringing is enough to work up a sweat! Plus -- those kids were actors!

[Yamahawk]

Unfortunately that doesn't help much.

People need to just accept the fact that guns have nothing to do with this, and Americans are so exceptional that they are just going to have to live with the occasional, I mean frequent, massacre of children. I mean, it's not guns. It can't be, right? Everybody knows that as soon as you want to take away AR-15s the next logical step is mind control and taking away every other right anyone can think of. Plus, what about the other ways children die? And what about those inner city folks in Chicago? Let's just all slap each other on the back for the serious handwringing that gets done for a day or two after each episode. All that handwringing is enough to work up a sweat! Plus -- those kids were actors!


Yes, unfortunately That doesn't help much either...
Being smug and sarcastic helps nobody.
Charlie

[jakec]

When you have a problem with your bike, do you pray and consult scripture, or do you grab a wrench?

We're willing to do anything for these bikes but when it comes to violence the best we can do is shrug and say "it'll all be over soon, with any luck"

[Gene]

Cal, thanks for the research, it is all out there, but it doesn't fit with what the skewed news tells us.
Charlie

Well "news" is too often skewed in both directions. Sadly, it is now too frequently not "news" but "biased opinions". Fortunately, its presence creates more free time in the garage that was otherwise spent becoming "informed" in years past. (Silver lining) 

All news has always been skewed to fit the publishers/airers world view. This is not a new thing.

[Yamahawk]

When you have a problem with your bike, do you pray and consult scripture, or do you grab a wrench?

We're willing to do anything for these bikes but when it comes to violence the best we can do is shrug and say "it'll all be over soon, with any luck"

Actually, I do both
But the problems we face today, are dealt with in Scripture. They are common to mankind, and have been around since Cain killed Able, his brother. There is Nothing New Under the Sun... as Solomon said, and everything is vanity. And I am not shrugging my shoulders and saying it'll be all over soon.. although it will be, and sooner than we think. Instead, I bend a knee and ask God to help with this and other things.. like healing and other necessities we all may need. He does listen... do we?
Charlie

[Stev-o]

Cal, thanks for the research, it is all out there, but it doesn't fit with what the skewed news tells us.
Charlie

Well "news" is too often skewed in both directions. Sadly, it is now too frequently not "news" but "biased opinions". Fortunately, its presence creates more free time in the garage that was otherwise spent becoming "informed" in years past. (Silver lining) 

All news has always been skewed to fit the publishers/airers world view. This is not a new thing.

No doubt, Gene.   So after a couple you guys mentioned dangers south of the border, I did a little research in the town where we want to buy a condo on the beach.  Yes, of course there is crime there as is everywhere but the article pointed out something king of interesting...


The second thing we have to consider are the facts. Here in Mexico the news loves to publish gory stories about car crashes complete with photos and other shocking stories. This is called “yellow news” here. It grabs your attention and has shock value. How many people would read about a family that goes to Mexico on vacation and they had nice sunny days, amazing food and a good time with nothing bad happening? No one really would read it because it is “not news“.

[Yamahawk]

...well, it isn't Juarez, hehe. Where are you looking location wise Stev-o?
And... sorry Dave, for getting off the topic.
Charlie

[Terry in Australia]

Move to Oz Steve. Bring all your bikes (they're worth way more here than you'll get for them there) but beware, we have gun violence here too. There was a Comanchero MC member shot dead a week or so ago in Sydney and another Comanchero MC member was shot here in Melbourne last week, but unless you're a member of an outlaw motorcycle gang you probably won't notice their shenanigans. (we don't have any outlaw motorcycle gangs who ride old Japanese bikes, so you're pretty safe)

The cost of living is pretty high here compared to the US though, but what price peace of mind? Cheers, Terry.

[jgger]

[/QUOTE ]
Unfortunately that doesn't help much.

People need to just accept the fact that guns have nothing to do with this, and Americans are so exceptional that they are just going to have to live with the occasional, I mean frequent, massacre of children. I mean, it's not guns. It can't be, right? Everybody knows that as soon as you want to take away AR-15s the next logical step is mind control and taking away every other right anyone can think of. Plus, what about the other ways children die? And what about those inner city folks in Chicago? Let's just all slap each other on the back for the serious handwringing that gets done for a day or two after each episode. All that handwringing is enough to work up a sweat! Plus -- those kids were actors!
[/quote]

Here's a thought, how many guns do you think we're in a 3,2, or even a one mile radius of that school, and how long do you think they have been there? None of those other guns jumped up and ran to the school th help shoot people, at least none that I have heard about. The weak link here is the whacko kid that wanted to kill people.

The government that so many want to "fix" this problem FAILED  the students at 3 different levels,  local, state, and federal. As for me I can't see how surrendering a constitutional right to the 3 stooges will ever end well. There is  no magic law that will fix these kind of tragedies especially by just going at it from one direction  (gun control ). What the approach has been and continues to be is the equivalent of trying to loosen a bolt on your bike that has a nut on the other end, as soon as it breaks loose and starts to spin the solution is to spin the wrench faster, and not deal with the other side of the issue.

My wife works for the school district, the ONLY correction they can administer is send a kid to the office. Pretty freaking sad.

[spotty]

The problem lies deeper than gun rights or the 1st Amendment rights to freedom of speech. It is a Heart Problem. We have taken God and His Son Jesus Christ out of schools...

Couldn’t disagree more,

You have the ability to disagree.. now, what are your facts that support what you are disagreeing with? If it is a disbelief that there is an Almighty God, well, thats just not convincing. I Know there Is.
Charlie

You ask for facts, yet what facts do you use to back up the opinion you hold that you ' know ' there is a god .  .
You believe there is a god perhaps, but where is the proof. And as for god being the one to provide an answer or salvation in this shooting thing, how many fukcing butters have killed how many other fukcing butters ( as well as the occasional couple of dozen/ hundred/ thousand/million innocent bystanders) and blame it on the will/testament/ bidding of some almighty being or other?
Even the Buddhists are knocking off Muslims now in the name of the prophets and they're supposed to be the good guys who won't even kill an insect but get their godly blood up and they'll hack a few Rohinga's into the next life no problem

[Yamahawk]

The problem lies deeper than gun rights or the 1st Amendment rights to freedom of speech. It is a Heart Problem. We have taken God and His Son Jesus Christ out of schools...

Couldn’t disagree more,

You have the ability to disagree.. now, what are your facts that support what you are disagreeing with? If it is a disbelief that there is an Almighty God, well, thats just not convincing. I Know there Is.
Charlie

You ask for facts, yet what facts do you use to back up the opinion you hold that you ' know ' there is a god .  .
You believe there is a god perhaps, but where is the proof. And as for god being the one to provide an answer or salvation in this shooting thing, how many fukcing butters have killed how many other fukcing butters ( as well as the occasional couple of dozen/ hundred/ thousand/million innocent bystanders) and blame it on the will/testament/ bidding of some almighty being or other?
Even the Buddhists are knocking off Muslims now in the name of the prophets and they're supposed to be the good guys who won't even kill an insect but get their godly blood up and they'll hack a few Rohinga's into the next life no problem

Opinions are like Arseholes Spotty, everyone has one... 
Wars have always been fought upon some premise of religion or hatred that was stirred up by those who want power, or wealth, mostly both, and it is a HUMAN condition. That's not God. And, as you state even Buddhist monks aren't immune to this condition... they can and will succumb to their humanity.
You see, Spotty, all humanity has a common denominator, and that is sin. Sin is nothing more than rebellion against an Almighty God. I am aware of how many wars have been fought in the name of whatever god they have believed in. At one time, there were people sacrificing their children to molech, or ashtaroth, or whatever statue they would heat up and then burn their children with. It is a humanity problem in which there is No Earthly Answer. Back in the history of the Hebrew nation, it states that every man did what was right in his own eyes... well, when you filter what is right through your eyes, it becomes a skewed world. That's what we have today.
     I know there is a God, as He shows me every day His Creation. Where did all this come from? Certainly not Aliens lol... nor was it a thing of 'chance'. All we see every day, is taken for granted, and not really examined closely. If we did, His hand would be seen very well. There is such a delicate balance in this world for life to even exist on our planet. The odds of this just happening by 'chance' are staggering. All creation testifies of His Existence. Now, I understand there is a great many people that do not believe there is an Almighty God... that's ok, as He believes in them. You see, because we all suffer from the same ailment (sin, the rebellion), there is only one cure. That is what He gave the world. It wasn't me that gave it, but I can tell you about it. If you think that God is wrong for only offering One Way to be right with Him, that's something you can take up with Him when you meet Him one day...
Blame... we want to blame someone or another for what we see as this condition. Well, there is someone to blame, he has been around for a long, long time, he's a man of wealth and fame... ask Mick Jagger who he is. He wrote a song about him. In our country, and perhaps yours too, we have taken God out of schools. We replaced him with a sense that everything we do is 'ok', its just little Johhny's way so it can't be wrong... we give children a sense of entitlement, when they are entitled to nothing. Their morals are corrupted by those who want to take their innocence and give them a future full of despair. There IS no hope in this world that comes from this world. I see the steady decay of society, and people think it is going to be ok. It isn't ok, and won't be until One man returns. Then He will make everything ok. Well, this is my last posting here, I told Dave I wouldn't continue this, but I have answered your question, Spotty. Good day, sir. And God bless you
Charlie