Topic: help with brakes please

[Scott S]

 What have you done to the calipers? Sounds like the piston are sticky and/or the pins need to be cleaned and greased.

 Are you using a hose on the bleeder nipple and submerging it in fluid so that no air is sucked back in?

[juntjoo]

I think I got it. I think it just needed a couple more go's at it

[Flyin900]

I bleed the brakes when the system is fully installed. The calipers are on the rotors and everything is set up to ride nothing is partially installed.
The MV is attached to the bleeder nipple on one side if there are dual calipers on the front. The nipple is closed presently and a short piece of clear plastic hose that is a tight fit over the nipple is attached to the MV. The master is mostly full of brake fluid with the top off. I pump vacuum up on the MV and then open the nipple until the vacuum bleeds down to zero on the gauge close the nipple and repeat this a few times until there is fluid and air pulled down into the MV container.
Once the air and fluid appear then with the nipple closed on the caliper start to pump the brake lever a number of times to push fluid down the system. Normally pressure won't start to build at this stage, but more air and fluid is pushed down the system towards the bleeder. I then start to pull vacuum again on the MV with the bleeder closed and pull the brake lever into the depressed position and hold it there while I crack the bleeder and let the MV vacuum and the open bleeder release more fluid and air. The brake lever must remain fully depressed still and once the vacuum has bled down and no more fluid/air is coming out you close the bleeder first and then release the brake lever.
Failure to close the bleeder first on this step will pull air back into the system.

Continue to do this with building vacuum on the MV with the bleeder closed, depress the front brake lever and hold it. Crack the bleeder while holding the brake lever depressed and let the MV vacuum pull until it stops. Close the bleeder with the brake lever still depressed and repeat. After a few time doing this you should get the brake lever starting to build some resistance, so continue until the air bubble diminish and switch to the other side and repeat.
I have a small manual bleeder that I use that has no vacuum and just a hose and small bottle for the fluid and a magnet on the storage bottle that I switch to after the brake lever start to build some resistance, since I find the MV seems to continue to pull air bubbles when there are really non to speak of in the system.
So if you only have a MV once you start to get resistance in the brake lever stop using the vacuum part of the MV and just use it to push the brake fluid manually out of the caliper bleeder and into the storage container.

[Airborne 82nd]

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Motive-Products-Power-Bleeder-Adapters-to-fit-most-European-car-models/49345690?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=4886&adid=22222222227036937951&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=58505969138&wl4=pla-91205899058&wl5=9010047&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=114220866&wl11=online&wl12=49345690&wl13=&veh=sem

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NDP6751567

These two parts are the best tools/parts I have ever bought. Read up on them push the fluid up from the bottom and let the air go up the way it wants to. Others have mentioned the same ways in one way or another.

[juntjoo]

I bleed the brakes when the system is fully installed. The calipers are on the rotors and everything is set up to ride nothing is partially installed.
The MV is attached to the bleeder nipple on one side if there are dual calipers on the front. The nipple is closed presently and a short piece of clear plastic hose that is a tight fit over the nipple is attached to the MV. The master is mostly full of brake fluid with the top off. I pump vacuum up on the MV and then open the nipple until the vacuum bleeds down to zero on the gauge close the nipple and repeat this a few times until there is fluid and air pulled down into the MV container.
Once the air and fluid appear then with the nipple closed on the caliper start to pump the brake lever a number of times to push fluid down the system. Normally pressure won't start to build at this stage, but more air and fluid is pushed down the system towards the bleeder. I then start to pull vacuum again on the MV with the bleeder closed and pull the brake lever into the depressed position and hold it there while I crack the bleeder and let the MV vacuum and the open bleeder release more fluid and air. The brake lever must remain fully depressed still and once the vacuum has bled down and no more fluid/air is coming out you close the bleeder first and then release the brake lever.
Failure to close the bleeder first on this step will pull air back into the system.

Continue to do this with building vacuum on the MV with the bleeder closed, depress the front brake lever and hold it. Crack the bleeder while holding the brake lever depressed and let the MV vacuum pull until it stops. Close the bleeder with the brake lever still depressed and repeat. After a few time doing this you should get the brake lever starting to build some resistance, so continue until the air bubble diminish and switch to the other side and repeat.
I have a small manual bleeder that I use that has no vacuum and just a hose and small bottle for the fluid and a magnet on the storage bottle that I switch to after the brake lever start to build some resistance, since I find the MV seems to continue to pull air bubbles when there are really non to speak of in the system.
So if you only have a MV once you start to get resistance in the brake lever stop using the vacuum part of the MV and just use it to push the brake fluid manually out of the caliper bleeder and into the storage container.

thanks. that's basically what I did. wasn't sure if I needed to combine the MV with also pumping and holding the brake lever but I did. And I also have one of those basic bleeders you mentioned, brand new. never opened it. Just been using the MV but you say it does the last bleed better than the MV uh? My brakes seem adequate but maybe I should use the basic bleeder also.

[juntjoo]

+1 on purchasing a new MC, the all metal ones with the sight glass would be my choice.
Charlie

yup, got one for $20. you can tell it's made more of aluminum or something, and one of the top screws is on a slight angle. But it's the right color and appears to work! if it fails next time I'll opt for the $30 one

[juntjoo]

I assume a DSS MC for a CB750 will fit your bike too. Cost less than a restore kit for Honda MC. Work fine.

what is that?

[juntjoo]

What have you done to the calipers? Sounds like the piston are sticky and/or the pins need to be cleaned and greased.

 Are you using a hose on the bleeder nipple and submerging it in fluid so that no air is sucked back in?

never thought about greasing the pins. will do that. and no I didn't prefill the cup with fluid since I was using the hand vac which keeps the air going one way.

[Flyin900]

Tie the brake lever back overnight with a zip tie with the fluid system closed up and leave it. Any remaining air in the lines/system should migrate up to the top of the master cylinder and give you a better lever feel.

[PeWe]

I assume a DSS MC for a CB750 will fit your bike too. Cost less than a restore kit for Honda MC. Work fine.

what is that?

https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/CB550K-1976-USA/part_123902/
This cap make it to look better
https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/CB550K-1976-USA/part_189643/

[juntjoo]

Tie the brake lever back overnight with a zip tie with the fluid system closed up and leave it. Any remaining air in the lines/system should migrate up to the top of the master cylinder and give you a better lever feel.

thanks. I'll do that, but excuse my ignorance,  doesn't the air at top leak into the system, or does it just sit there, or does air just slip in from below wherever?

[juntjoo]

I got this btw:

Replacement Brake Master Cylinder for Honda TRX TRX250 TRX300 350 400 450 Rincon Foreman Rancher https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M8O4QME/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_PdeNAbBYR8F2R

cheaper than my stated $20 but works just fine as far as I can tell

[juntjoo]

darn, could've gotten these even cheaper and painted the lever to match my red calipers!

Poweka 14mm Front Hydraulic Brake Master Cylinder For Honda Cb750 Cb650 Cx500 Cx650 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00D0MSX36/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_ZreNAbZ5BZ6YG

tho it's probably best I not experimemtally paint

[juntjoo]

I assume a DSS MC for a CB750 will fit your bike too. Cost less than a restore kit for Honda MC. Work fine.

what is that?

https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/CB550K-1976-USA/part_123902/
This cap make it to look better
https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/CB550K-1976-USA/part_189643/

thanks. I was thinking "dss" was some different technology or something i missed out on

[Flyin900]

Any remaining air in the lines will migrate up to the upper most section of the system which is the master cylinder and be released into the master and escape up to the top of the fluid level. There is air on the top of your master cylinder fluid level. The system isn't in a vacuum inside your master cylinder there is atmospheric air pressure above the top of the fluid and that is where the last remaining air in the lines ends up.

So get this bike on the road and claim a WIN! 

[juntjoo]

Any remaining air in the lines will migrate up to the upper most section of the system which is the master cylinder and be released into the master and escape up to the top of the fluid level. There is air on the top of your master cylinder fluid level. The system isn't in a vacuum inside your master cylinder there is atmospheric air pressure above the top of the fluid and that is where the last remaining air in the lines ends up.

So get this bike on the road and claim a WIN! 

hmm.. I'm really ignorant with this part of physics, probably most really. so the fluid being heavier rests below any air? when you say atmospheric pressure, is that air pressure from gravity?
 so there's supposed to be SOME air in there?

and yes I did claim a win last night, or this morning early really.  I couldn't stand the fact that we got this sudden wind chill though (here in SWFL) that just totally ruined it for me. I kept having to return home to keep going through my winter clothes I pack away. it's supposed to be getting warmer now, which it is but had to drop down right as completed my bike. Anyway, it was great, even though in my crazy head I was dreading the end to my excitement I've been building since whenever I started fixing this bike. But I still barely know how to ride, so this should be a long love affair really. I barely went over 35mph. You don't learn TOO much in the riding course, like just finding comfortability in riding atop a rocket without a seat belt, which obviously takes practice, but there's certain things your body has to learn just to feel like you're not going to fall off like what minute adjustments your body makes between accelerating to braking. Last night I had think about these things the whole time. If I could suggest to someone how to get started on a bike, I'd say just spend your first few hours getting used to taking off on a rocket then stopping without falling off. Everything else I learned in the course was a lot easier and what I'd consider secondary. Because once you gotta really stop, or pick up speed, that can be dangerous for a beginner. Anyway, there are plenty of things for me to do around town under 40mph I can do to practice. fun times!

[evinrude7]

enjoy.  be safe.  wear a helmet.  ride like everyone is trying to kill you; but enjoy just the same. 

[juntjoo]

thanks! if god wants me he better take me by tuesday as that's when my helmet arrives.

[evinrude7]

thanks! if god wants me he better take me by tuesday as that's when my helmet arrives.

don't go farther than the driveway without a helmet or my wife will yell at you.  what did you order? 

[juntjoo]

thanks! if god wants me he better take me by tuesday as that's when my helmet arrives.

don't go farther than the driveway without a helmet or my wife will yell at you.  what did you order?

Free Smoke Shield with Purchase! Snell M2015 Approved DOT Full Face Helmet Motorcycle Street Racing ( XXL - White ) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01AWUGX0I/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_bxzNAb0KA4J78

I like that it comes with two separate visors, tint & clear, so I need only one dirt/scratch susceptible lense between my eyes and my view. Not too cheap and within my budget and sexy! And I read the reviews a lot and this helmet didn't appear to have any glaring flaws. And it protects my lower face. Something your wife might appreciate . for you!

[evinrude7]

thanks! if god wants me he better take me by tuesday as that's when my helmet arrives.

don't go farther than the driveway without a helmet or my wife will yell at you.  what did you order?

Free Smoke Shield with Purchase! Snell M2015 Approved DOT Full Face Helmet Motorcycle Street Racing ( XXL - White ) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01AWUGX0I/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_bxzNAb0KA4J78

I like that it comes with two separate visors, tint & clear, so I need only one dirt/scratch susceptible lense between my eyes and my view. Not too cheap and within my budget and sexy! And I read the reviews a lot and this helmet didn't appear to have any glaring flaws. And it protects my lower face. Something your wife might appreciate . for you!

i don't use a full face but i like that one you chose.  she's fine with the 3/4 i use as long as it's on.  her cousin wrecked a bike in 2017.  lost one whole arm and half of the other.  lucky he lived.   

[juntjoo]

thanks! if god wants me he better take me by tuesday as that's when my helmet arrives.

don't go farther than the driveway without a helmet or my wife will yell at you.  what did you order?

Free Smoke Shield with Purchase! Snell M2015 Approved DOT Full Face Helmet Motorcycle Street Racing ( XXL - White ) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01AWUGX0I/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_bxzNAb0KA4J78

I like that it comes with two separate visors, tint & clear, so I need only one dirt/scratch susceptible lense between my eyes and my view. Not too cheap and within my budget and sexy! And I read the reviews a lot and this helmet didn't appear to have any glaring flaws. And it protects my lower face. Something your wife might appreciate . for you!

i don't use a full face but i like that one you chose.  she's fine with the 3/4 i use as long as it's on.  her cousin wrecked a bike in 2017.  lost one whole arm and half of the other.  lucky he lived.

Geez, I'm really sorry for your cousin in law.