Author Topic: Holy hot tub batman! (Read 3164 times)

eigenvector · « **on:** March 02, 2018, 06:28:09 PM »

I work out 5 days a week, 5k runs twice a week and strength training 3 days a week - good way to blow off steam from working 7 days a week.

So I figure - why not get a hot tub to soak in after my workouts?

I went down to check out prices and WOW! You can expect to pay 10 grand for a small tub. 10 thousand! Who the heck buys these things? 8 grand for the unit, plus installation costs - dedicated 20 amp circuit, plus a base heavy enough to support a 1 ton weight (and 10% sales tax to boot!).

I knew it wasn't going to be cheap - but I didn't expect 5 figures for what is basically an oversized bathtub.

I can get a lot of personal massages for $10,000.

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #1 on:** March 02, 2018, 09:30:13 PM »

I used to own a Canadian made Arctic Spa dealership. Yes, you can spend a #$%*load of money but you don't have to. My $12,000 spa I purchased before I opened my store in 2002 is going great and it's now 16 years old. That's about $800 a year so far and getting cheaper every year. Chemical free too using a pool ozone unit. My suggestion would be to find a good used spa perhaps from a dealer for $3000 to $5000 with a brief warranty or from a private party perhaps for less. Don't get a full foam spa! Once they start having problems you are fukd since all the plumbing is hiding in the foam which then becomes a huge saturated sponge and damn near impossible to work on. The shell will also be thinner/cheaper since they also use the foam to support the weight. I DO recommend Arctic. While any man made product will eventually have problems at least the Arctic Spa can easily be worked on. Check them out. They are available in your area. Oh, and don't get one that uses a 20A circuit. That would be 110V. You WILL NOT be happy. #$%*ty inefficient heater and no pump power. You need a 50A circuit to handle 220V. Better pump power and a MUCH better heater.

Stev-o · « **Reply #2 on:** March 02, 2018, 09:35:07 PM »

I wouldn't pay $10K either, I got lucky and my house came with one on the back patio.
I keep it cranked up to 103* so it's ready any night the wifey and I want to jump in!

spotty · « **Reply #3 on:** March 02, 2018, 11:47:25 PM »

Here in the land of the submissively overregulated ( orstralia ) we are required to have spas ( as well as pools) fenced off to prevent the Darwin theory being applied..oops sorry I meant to say stray children wandering into your yard ( or trespassing, depending on how you look at it) and drowning their poor little darling selves.
A friend if mine rents a house with a spa that the owner couldn't be bothered fencing and just filled it with sand and called it a kids play area

Yamahawk · « **Reply #4 on:** March 03, 2018, 04:23:27 AM »

Quote from: spotty on March 02, 2018, 11:47:25 PM

Here in the land of the submissively overregulated ( orstralia ) we are required to have spas ( as well as pools) fenced off to prevent the Darwin theory being applied..oops sorry I meant to say stray children wandering into your yard ( or trespassing, depending on how you look at it) and drowning their poor little darling selves.
A friend if mine rents a house with a spa that the owner couldn't be bothered fencing and just filled it with sand and called it a kids play area

...and now you have to deal with those silly Ostriches who keep on burying their little heads in your sand box.. I mean spa...
Charlie

ekpent · « **Reply #5 on:** March 03, 2018, 04:44:17 AM »

Its not all that unusual around here to see people giving hot tubs away for free if you haul it away. See if you can find a steal deal out there somewhere.

jlh3rd · « **Reply #6 on:** March 03, 2018, 05:27:43 AM »

Eigenvector,
It is a nightmare trying to decide from all the tubs out there. I know, as I bought one last March.....so ,here’s what I did.
There is a website called hotubuniversity, a Chris weaver. I read all of his stuff and learned a lot. He’s somewhat biased as he likes master spas and deals with them, but still gives good info.
Here’s what I learned. You want balboa controls and waterway jets. These parts are the high end of hot tubs and are available through many parts sellers. Some hot tubs only use their special made parts and cheaper controls which you can only get from them, like jacuzzi ,Arctic might be the same way. He explains why he likes full foam and dislikes perimeter insulation....I didn’t agree with him on that for maintenance reasons, but I don’t live in Canada...my tub is outside however....
He talks about shells....gives me a headache.....he talks about glued and clamped hoses, which is a good thing, mine are not , but I’m gonna clamp my own hoses myself this year ( zip ties).....
And he emphasizes that a great dealer with great service ,usually one that has been in business, for a long time can trump a lesser quality tub......
I want to repeat, even reading his stuff still gives a headache but at least it lets you make an informed decision.
I purchased a vita spa which is actually a Maxx Spa, made by Maxx...weaver says they are a middle of the road spa. I disagree but ,once again, it’s tough to make a call. My spa has waterway jets, balboa controls, glued but not clamped hoses, it is a thick shell with no supports underneath. It does have a metal perimeter structure with a sealed bottom and perimeter insulation which he doesn’t like but I do as access to my tub is extremely easy and is insulated enough for me that I have to leave the cover open a little during the summer as my water temp really goes up.....my dealer has been in the hot tub business for decades, so that’s good..
As I said, he gives good info and it does help to make a decision......check him out...
Hope all this helps....
I gotta add, man, I do like my spa, I use it even this winter....
Oh , mine was in the $7500, and like 84”x84”.....

eigenvector · « **Reply #7 on:** March 03, 2018, 11:30:46 AM »

For what it's worth I've talked myself out of it.

It's simply too much money for something like that.
The talk of 220v and 50 amp make the case even worse. For me to install something like that would require a complete panel upgrade, I have room for a single 20amp circuit, but no more. So to do 220 - would require a new panel, new circuit, AND more than likely a service upgrade from 100A to 150 (or 200A). Way too much time, effort, and money for an item which really shouldn't cost that much anyway.

Not for me.

Stev-o · « **Reply #8 on:** March 03, 2018, 11:39:30 AM »

Your house only has 100A service? Sounds low.

eigenvector · « **Reply #9 on:** March 03, 2018, 12:01:11 PM »

That's the norm for a house of the 50's and 60's.

333 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 03, 2018, 12:26:35 PM »

If you're handy with wood, there are a few alternatives;

http://snorkel.com/

https://makezine.com/projects/build-a-rustic-cedar-hot-tub-for-under-1000/

J-Rod10 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 03, 2018, 02:48:16 PM »

Ice baths are better for you after workouts/runs.

They aren't as much fun, though. And you'll have a hard time getting a girl in the ice bath.

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #12 on:** March 03, 2018, 04:10:12 PM »

I had a large panel with 100A service with half open spaces. House was built in '99. I had to upgrade to 150A. It required a larger service line to the meter (if I remember correctly) which was basically on the other side of the garage wall. Since, I have added AC and a basement finish with two 20A services and 4 or 5? 15A services plus garage lighting. All within code. The tub has three 4HP pumps, a 24 hour circulation pump for the ozone system, an air blower plus the heater. It will not run the heater with all 3 pumps on. Too much draw. With 2 pumps and the heater it draws 42 - 45A. 55A on start up. The perimeter insulation system traps all the "waste" heat generated by the pumps which then transfers upward into the water and it's contained by the 5" thick dense foam cover. If it's not below zero outside the 3 pumps waste heat running together will maintain the temperature.

Suggestion - since you can only do 20A watch for a used 110V spa for cheap. Don't buy it if you can't see it run. Listen for problems and look for leaks first. There should be NO reason the owner would not allow you to do a wet test first!! Have one of the dealers move it for you if you're not sure. Maybe one of the dealers will have one? It should have a 3? month warranty if so. Get used to operations including chemicals. Monitor the electrical consumption because an inefficient spa may/will cost a bundle to run during a cold winter. It can easily be $50+ a month. If you're happy with everything then maybe do an upgrade when possible.

It's been 65 here in Colorado today. I'm going out now to turn mine up to 108

for a 20 minute evening dip. Too hot for much longer! I keep it at ~ 98 and it takes 1.5 hours to get to 108. Strong bourbon on ice. It's been a long hard work weekend and I deserve this

SPaaaaahhhhhh time.

Stev-o · « **Reply #13 on:** March 03, 2018, 05:27:48 PM »

108....holy #$%*e Jerry! You'll be RX soup in no time!!

My controls max out at 104 which is very hot, no way would I want it higher.

Yamahawk · « **Reply #14 on:** March 04, 2018, 05:59:54 AM »

Quote from: eigenvector on March 03, 2018, 12:01:11 PM

That's the norm for a house of the 50's and 60's.

My house was built in 1922, and they had upgraded from the old fuse box (literally) to a Robertshaw Pushmatic box sometime in the '60's or '70's. My daughter is an electrician, and she helped me upgrade to a 200 amp service panel. The outlay wasn't that much, maybe $150 or so, and I have MANY breaker spots now, so I could add another 220v 50amp breaker with ease. Have an electrician look at the service coming into your meter box, and see if it is adequate for 200amp. Most are already large enough. The drop from the pole was able to handle it, and from the weatherhead to the meter is all you have to worry about, and from there into the Main Breaker in the panel. Mine were all sufficiently able to handle the load of 200amp service. If you do have to replace the hiring from the weatherhead, it will be a little bit more, as they have to disconnect and reconnect the service drop. A good electrician can do this also.
Charlie

bwaller · « **Reply #15 on:** March 04, 2018, 07:12:11 AM »

Back in 2005 I had $10K worth of work to do on my in ground pool. The kids had moved on, was rarely ever used and I spent all my Sundays cleaning the thing. They need swimmer traffic to help keep them clean.....I buried it.

I installed a hot tub level with my verandah floor under the roof and use it year round. This is year thirteen, it requires very little maintenance & we love it. Being rural no suits are required and I tell you, in this northern country, stepping out of a hot tub bare ass into -15F air is pretty invigorating!

Listen to Jerry, there are deals to be had.

I suffer from back issues so a 15min soak, 5 mins on the inversion table followed by icing helps keep me mobile.

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #16 on:** March 04, 2018, 11:26:22 AM »

Quote from: Stev-o on March 03, 2018, 05:27:48 PM

108....holy #$%*e Jerry! You'll be RX soup in no time!!

My controls max out at 104 which is very hot, no way would I want it higher.

104 is the "industry standard". 20 minutes at 108 works wonders for my old back. Many times a service call requires you to turn the spa heater on. If it's at 104 already it won't turn the heater on and it's a wasted trip. That's where different types of service overrides come in handy. With mine you simply hold the temp up button down and hold it for 30 seconds once it's at 104. It will increase to T05, T06, T07. That is 105, 106, 107. T = Test. Most spa heaters come on at -1 and off at +1 of the set point so T07 yields 108. I will only do one 20 minute pump cycle at 108. Heat stroke is very possible. Caution advised!!

eigenvector · « **Reply #17 on:** March 04, 2018, 12:28:48 PM »

Well for what it's worth I am the proud owner of a new hot tub.

I found a small 2 person unit that would fit into my basement - nice and tidy in a corner. Make the post-workout soak so much better.
Since it's inside I don't have to worry about weather, mice, rodents etc...

That's the theory anyway - I am preparing for the possibility that it won't fit down there, in which case I have a backup location. Need to call a contractor to do the electrical and any site construction for the base.

I really do hope it fits down there - Seattle's weather is bad enough that I'd hate to use it during the fall and winter months with all the Doug Fir needles, wind, drizzle.

As for the electrical - it's a 110V base unit, can be converted to 220V if needed. If it's at 110V, only the heater OR the jets will work - not both. Again, for what I need it for - that's no big deal (I think).

ekpent · « **Reply #18 on:** March 04, 2018, 01:13:27 PM »

The only drawback I could see with it in a basement would be all the humidity that it may put out. My block wall and 1/2 finished basement here in Michigan can get pretty high on the humidity scale in the summer and I like to run a dehumidifier to keep her down a little. Those will spin the electric meter also

Buddy of mine has a hot room spa in his basement but it is vented well. Fun to sit on a wood plank and drink beer and sweat like hell

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #19 on:** March 04, 2018, 03:20:28 PM »

Congratulations on your SpAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH.

eigenvector · « **Reply #20 on:** March 04, 2018, 04:19:20 PM »

We shall see.

You're right about the moisture - another thing to consider. Of course the basement ALREADY has a moisture problem, so I'm not sure it can get any worse and it might force me to address it. Put some cement board on the walls, tile it off - something like that.

Incidentally - my intention is to put the tub in a corner of the room, it's a roughly triangular unit, so it would tuck away in a corner very nicely. Any reason why that might not be a good idea. The only thing that comes to mind is that if the plumbing was in back I'd not be able to service it. In which case - would I be advised to keep it away from the walls for that reason?

754 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 04, 2018, 04:39:07 PM »

I am waiting for the book , Rx for Perfect Hot Tub Installation,
By Jerry MuthaF'er...

333 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 04, 2018, 06:09:20 PM »

Add a hot tub to a moist basement? Moisture times ten.

Yamahawk · « **Reply #23 on:** March 04, 2018, 06:50:56 PM »

Quote from: eigenvector on March 04, 2018, 12:28:48 PM

Well for what it's worth I am the proud owner of a new hot tub.

I found a small 2 person unit that would fit into my basement - nice and tidy in a corner. Make the post-workout soak so much better.
Since it's inside I don't have to worry about weather, mice, rodents etc...

That's the theory anyway - I am preparing for the possibility that it won't fit down there, in which case I have a backup location. Need to call a contractor to do the electrical and any site construction for the base.

I really do hope it fits down there - Seattle's weather is bad enough that I'd hate to use it during the fall and winter months with all the Doug Fir needles, wind, drizzle.

As for the electrical - it's a 110V base unit, can be converted to 220V if needed. If it's at 110V, only the heater OR the jets will work - not both. Again, for what I need it for - that's no big deal (I think).

Have it converted to 220v, it will be cheaper to run, and will work both at once. Win-Win situation.
Charlie

eigenvector · « **Reply #24 on:** March 05, 2018, 05:34:17 PM »

That depends on what the electrician says. Got a contractor coming over tomorrow (hopefully this guy isn't unreliable or flaky) to evaluate the plan. If it's 220V I will have to do 3 things - new circuit, new panel (mine only has a single breaker slot left), and undoubtedly updated service to 200A. Far cry more than just putting in a single 20A circuit. Of course he might advise a new panel or electrical service upgrade anyway.

All of which I was planning on doing anyway - I also want to subpanel the shop one of these days.

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #25 on:** March 05, 2018, 07:50:27 PM »

So I'm thinking you have at least one 110V outlet in the basement location? And you have ONE breaker slot left?
110V existing in the basement + 1 open breaker slot (another 110V breaker you're thinking). That sounds like the recipe for a 220V breaker (ie 2 X 110V = 220V) and a line to the tub. Might be able to do it easier than you think.

eigenvector · « **Reply #26 on:** March 05, 2018, 08:00:55 PM »

We'll see.

I don't want anything iffy or marginal. Top quality or nothing, last thing I need is to burn down the house, turn the hot tub into a portable electrocution chamber, or get slammed by the inspector.

jlh3rd · « **Reply #27 on:** March 06, 2018, 02:49:46 AM »

Quote from: eigenvector on March 05, 2018, 08:00:55 PM

We'll see.

I don't want anything iffy or marginal. Top quality or nothing, last thing I need is to burn down the house, turn the hot tub into a portable electrocution chamber, or get slammed by the inspector.

++1

Yamahawk · « **Reply #28 on:** March 06, 2018, 05:52:08 AM »

My meter box outside, which connects to the weatherhead, has a 200amp meter in it. Check your meter first, to see what is needed to upgrade your service to a 150 or 200amp service panel inside. If you have a 200amp meter (new digital ones are all 200 I believe) Then check the gauge wire coming into the panel from the meter. If it is the correct gauge for your new panel, all you would have to do is pull the meter, (notify the electric company of doing this) and then replace your 100amp panel with either the 150 or 200amp panel.
Menards has great sales on panels, and breakers, that is what my daughter (electrician) and I did to upgrade my home panel for the kitchen remodel with a wall oven/microwave combo, and an induction stovetop in the counter, both of which took 40 amp 220v breakers. It took a couple hours to replace the panel, re-hook all the wiring that was removed from the old panel, and connect up everything.
Now, if your meter isn't a 200amp rated meter, then you will have to have an electrician look at the service drop and weatherhead connections to the meter box, and see if you need to upgrade them too. Mine was old, but still had rated wiring from the pole into the meter, and into the panel. Yours may be also! I have about 5 or 6 unused breaker locations, as I purchased a long-a** panel to hang in place of the old one, and I can add more circuits as time goes by...

Charlie

754 · « **Reply #29 on:** March 06, 2018, 09:21:24 AM »

More Power To You.....

eigenvector · « **Reply #30 on:** March 06, 2018, 04:33:59 PM »

Just got done with the contractor.

220V service and a new panel.
He also recommended an venting system to keep the moisture down - so now I have to do some research on that.

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Author Topic: Holy hot tub batman! (Read 3164 times)