Topic: Rough start after winterization

[Dos]

I have been having some trouble getting my bike running normal after this winter season I just put in new oil and I cannot get the bike to start. I have to kick it about 50 times to finally get it to Idle but then the bike does not go past 3000 RPMs.

Before when my petcock was acting up I used old fuel to warm the bike up because I didn’t have time to get new fuel. It ran well, I’m hoping the old fuel didn’t have dirt or something in it to clog.

I’m thinking once I get it up and running again for alittle I could just rev it slightly and hope that what ever is in there gets deterriated?

In order to fit the new fuel line I had to take the carbs off as well. Maybe something is going on where’s not enough fuel is being given?

[pjlogue]

Old fuel isn't the best stuff and depending on how old it is it may be causing problems.  Fuel has a shelf life and if it's Ethanol (10%) fuel it has a real short shelf life.  I suggest you drain the tank and float bowls and refill with fresh gas.  Try using a little starting Ether.  You can give a real short spray in each spark plug hole, put the plugs back in and see if it fires up. 

-P.

[Dos]

It’s up and running, a lot of clacking. Moved up from 3000 to 4000 rpm.
Just died when using throttle, running on 2 cylinders now

[Dos]

Back on all four a lot of white smoke.
When I use the throttle it still cuts out around three or four but when I used the choke I can get it all the way up to five or six

ALSO when I lean the bike to the left it cuts out and dies .. what gives!? I had the bike running still for a good 25 mins..

I’m alittle worried/confused. I used an engine helper type liquid before winterizig and made sure to run the bike through so there wasn’t much gas sitting.

I have a feeling I’m going to have to take the carbs apart and do something right?

[Don R]

 Bad gas/wet gas. Drain and flush the tank and float bowls. Refill with fresh fuel. I'd add some techron fuel system cleaner. Most of them are snake oil but techron recently worked on my Goldwing after seeing it recommended here. .

[Dos]

I just remembered that I used water to test my petcock but I didn’t use that much and the fuel line wasn’t connected. Can I just run the bike till the bad gas is burned up? There is fresh gas in the tank now.

[dave500]

are you just kicking the bike and hoping it to idle like a fuel injected car?it wont,you gotta use the throttle and hold rpm etc.

[Dos]

I really think this is carb related. Maybe my bowls got messed up some how? I ran it for awhile at idle yesterday and that would have burned up any bad stuff in there . The tank has fresh gas

[Dos]

It started with less than 30 kicks this time.

Still very rough. Maybe I put too much stabil before winter?

[Dos]

I try going around the block but no matter what it sputters at 3000 rpm. I can choke it up to 5-6k rpm though. I turned off my petcock and used what was ever in the bowls until it died and then gave it gas again..

Do you guys think I need to rebuild my carbs or still wet fuel?

When I let the bike use just the gas in the bowls and then turned back on my petcock has started to leak out all over from the over flow lines

[Flyin900]

It sounds like you have possibly picked up some junk from your tank with the previous petcock issue. If you are overflowing from the carb drain tubes then the fuel valves are not sealing correctly and may have some small dirt particles in the seats.
The idle jets have very tiny holes in the internal body and can easily be plugged up with sediment too.

DOS it is hard to diagnose carbs issues on the forum, so a best guess here is you may need to have those carbs cleaned and your gas tank completely flushed, if you don't know the condition of the interior. If you clean the carbs and the gas tank still has small rust particles down in the bottom of the tank the petcock built in filter may not stop them from migrating back into your clean carbs.

It may also be something else entirely not related to fuel. Have you checked the carbs for air leaks around the intake manifolds as you indicated you had them off previously. Or a better question was the bike running right and no issues after you reinstalled the carbs?

[Dos]

I bought brand new seats and valve seats and no matter how hard I tried they always just over flowed. I don’t know where to get good ones. I’ll check my tank for rust but I coated it awhile back. Maybe I didn’t put my carbs back on correctly

[Flyin900]

Ok if the tank is lined then it should be clean inside there. If you bought the cheap replacement fuel valves they can be a problem. I replaced ones on my CB 400F build and they were $16US per set (aftermarket too); yet there are some out there for $6US per set. The OEM Honda ones are the best obviously, yet run around $30 per set.
Did you reset the float heights when you replaced the fuel valves, since the aftermarket fuel valves have a different height design than stock ones? These aftermarket ones will need to be checked when installed and pretty well adjusted for sure to meet the correct spec for float height.

[Dos]

Yes I actually had a very hard time setting the float height.
When I set the floats to 21mm the bike actually did the same thing it’s doing now.

I’m guessing somehow the float heights have been changed?
I’m going to take my carbs off today and look inside.

I also feel my bike releases larger amounts of co and co2 because my lungs hurt after when ever I run it.

With my carbs before I winterized: I finally set them right however the bike still is very rich. I’m thinking I should adjust the needle position this time?

[Flyin900]

DOS what fuel needle and seat did you buy and from where? If you bought the $5 a set ones then the general consensus normally is  that those are really sketchy quality wise. Any noted carb guru will always recommend using the Honda OEM ones because of the quality of the parts, although I have had luck with the $16 each per set from 4 into 1.They are the K&L brand which usually makes decent quality aftermarket parts overall.

If you have leaky float valves that will cause you lots of grief with the carbs. Whenever I do carb work I always hook the carbs up to a remote gas bottle to recheck for leaks before I install them on the bike. I sometimes also do the clear tube gas height test for the level in the bowls, since the gas level if too high will cause overflow and rich running issues too.

This avoids going through the reinstallation of the carbs only to find you have leaky float valves and having to remove them again.

[Dos]

I actually have never touched the carb fuel needles.. unless the one time I brought it to a mechanic they messed with it or switched it out .

[Dos]

Here was the order

[Flyin900]

DOS that kit you bought has all the brass parts including the fuel valve assy. Did you use the parts in that kit completely or only parts of the kit?
It is an inexpensive kit and one of the reviews on the 4 into 1 site on this kit indicated the user had issues with the fuel valves leaking. The OEM Honda fuel valves are $32US per kit just for the fuel valve as a comparison, so $44 for everything for all four carbs including new brass, fuel valves and O rings and gaskets is a red flag

I would pull your carbs and start by checking all the idle jets (4pcs) one per carb which have the very tiny hole way down in the jet to see if they are plugged. I would recheck your float heights and the float fuel valves for any dirt on the seat or needles. I would then do a leak test with the carbs off the bike so see if the fuel valves are leaking.

There is a test with a clear fuel hose to check the fuel level in each bowl that requires removing the drain screw and fitting a plastic nipple into the hole where the drain screw goes. Attaching the clear fuel line and bending it in a U shape and filling the carbs with fuel. The level in the bowl will be represented by the level the fuel rises in the clear fuel line to give you a reference point of the level in that bowl. There is a write up on here somewhere, yet I don't know how the search works to find it as it shows the correct procedure and parts needed.

I would just start with checking the carbs for the above leaky fuel valves and any possible issues with plugged idle jets or main jets too. Make sure the floats are accurately set to the 21mm height setting and spend time on getting this right on each one.

[Dos]

Okay got it. When setting the floats to 21mm do you measure in the middle or the top of the float? Because it isn’t one height fully down the float. I set them to 21mm once actually and I wasn’t getting enough fuel and had this problem of the bike sputtering like it is now. In regards to the proper kit, could you link me to the right one?

I only used certain parts. Didn’t use any needles or anything I actually just used the new float valves and needles I believe. I will Shoot some pictures over

[Flyin900]

DOS,

This is what I use to set the float assembly to contact the needle valve pin correctly. Any decent hardware store or possibly Harbour Freight should sell one for a few bucks. It is adjustable with a level section that will slide along the ruler and you can set it at a 21mm setting to check the float height. The float should be level along its entire length (front to back) and if not then you have something not set up right in your measuring format.
I have seen where the float is higher at the front and lower at the back and if that happens then there is a problem in either the way you have the float tang contacting the little push pin on the float valve, or the angle of the carb rack when you are getting the tang onto the push pin correctly. The tang being out of adjustment too far from 21mm can also affect the angle of the black float front to back too.

Wait until you have the carbs off and the jets removed, as I am wondering if you actually got the jets fully cleaned and the interior circuits clean too. The idle jet is critical to not only the idle circuit but also the running of the bike at other RPM ranges too and one of the most difficult to get cleaned properly. If you used the new brass jets then at least you would have had clean jets to begin with, yet they could still have become plugged with some small particles released when you did the petcock rebuild.

[Dos]

Hey Flyin,

I am going to start another thread but I took my carbs off and opened them up and they appear to look great?!

DOS,

This is what I use to set the float assembly to contact the needle valve pin correctly. Any decent hardware store or possibly Harbour Freight should sell one for a few bucks. It is adjustable with a level section that will slide along the ruler and you can set it at a 21mm setting to check the float height. The float should be level along its entire length (front to back) and if not then you have something not set up right in your measuring format.
I have seen where the float is higher at the front and lower at the back and if that happens then there is a problem in either the way you have the float tang contacting the little push pin on the float valve, or the angle of the carb rack when you are getting the tang onto the push pin correctly. The tang being out of adjustment too far from 21mm can also affect the angle of the black float front to back too.

Wait until you have the carbs off and the jets removed, as I am wondering if you actually got the jets fully cleaned and the interior circuits clean too. The idle jet is critical to not only the idle circuit but also the running of the bike at other RPM ranges too and one of the most difficult to get cleaned properly. If you used the new brass jets then at least you would have had clean jets to begin with, yet they could still have become plugged with some small particles released when you did the petcock rebuild.