Topic: Christ Revealed Documentary Series available for viewing - DONE for now

[carnivorous chicken]

I am amazed... but I expected it. Where in the world (yes) do you have the information that the gospels were not written by the Apostles, Matthew, Mark, Dr. luke (who wrote Acts also) And John? Even the layman and theologist knows they were still alive 20 years after the fact, and if you can give me credible evidence, I will be glad to look at it. Your smugness is designed to refute God Himself, not me. Be aware that I am just the messenger, not the Message. The One who will talk to you isn't me... All I can do, is give you information that has been corroborated.. And no, Buddhism didn't come from Hinduism, there was a combining of the two, which started a third type of religion... if you want to call true Buddhism a religion, that makes three. And let me make this Perfectly Clear... I am Not Religious. I am relational, and have a real working relationship with God, not just a knowledge of Him. Religion, as you have correctly stated is the cause of a lot of problems in the world. God Is The Answer to all of them.
BTW- ever hear of the Satanic scriptures in the Qu'ran...? They even admit that Mohammed was fooled by Satan, and had him include them... So, there you go. Would a final Prophet be listening to the evil one? I think not. Mohammed used to bow to Jerusalem, when he first got the message from Gabriel. Then after his tribe was attacked by nomadic jews, he turned against them, slaughtered all the jewish tribes in the area, and started bowing towards Maccah where the altar that Abraham and Ishmael built several thousand years before was. Anyway, there is a lot of history there, and God told Haggai that Ishmael would also raise up a great nation, but they would be under bondage to the Law. Which is where we find the Jewish religion right now, under Law, Like the followers of Islam.
And no, it wasn't Constantine.. it was the council of Nicaea that did that, I believe.
Charlie

You're simply factually wrong about a lot of stuff, when the gospels were written (20 years after Jesus' death?), the origin of Buddhism (please stop), etc. I'm not being smug, and please don't tell me that your version of god will judge me. Again, my message is simple -- I don't give a #$%* what you believe, but stop telling other people that their beliefs are wrong (especially based on incorrect knowledge) and that they should believe what you believe (or presumably they'll go to this terrible place called hell...).

Or, to put it more simply, judge not.

[Yamahawk]

You must be awfully afraid of something...I never once mentioned God judging you. But, in your heart that might be what you are afraid of. The origin of Buddhism is a documented fact. Not a figment of imagination. He was the son of a King, who saw suffering. He wanted to alleviate it. And where in all the stuff we are talking about, did I mention that others were wrong.. I believe that was you, putting words in my text.
I have done a whole lot of research into what I understand. Not all of it was Christian writings. Josephus has book of History called the Antiquities, where he documents a certain Jesus.  I have read books written by respected historians on the origin of Islam, and Buddhism. I have done my footwork so that I might just understand a little bit of what God created here on this planet. It still boggles my mind when I think about how complex this world is, and how much went into its design... and if the thought is that it randomly happened, I have a bridge to sell you lol...
There is a lot of people who simply don't want there to be a God who created all things. Or they make God small so they can say He isn't really God.. or they belittle Him for 'allowing' bad things to happen.. But let me encourage you to seek Him. Because if you do, He said He will be found. That's a Promise, and He doesn't Ever go back on a Promise. I don't judge anyone except another Christian, as that is what I am told to do. This world has been lost for a long, long time. It is awaiting the return of the One who made it, to set all things right.
Oh, and the gospels were written around  to A.D.50-65, which is within 17-32 years after the death and resurrection of Jesus. Check the factual information listed by the archaeologists and those who know Greek and Hebrew, and also the early first century church fathers like Origen and Ignatius, second century fathers and writers, Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, Polykarp, Marcion, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus of Lyons, Clement of Alexandria and Tertullian. Look them up, read what they wrote. I quote a researcher...
A final piece of evidence comes from the Dead Sea Scrolls Cave 7. Jose Callahan discovered a fragment of the Gospel of Mark and dated it to have been written in A.D. 50. He also discovered fragments of Acts and other epistles and dated them to have been written slightly after A.D. 50
...and these were most likely scribal copies.
BTW- I am still awaiting your 'credible' evidence besides a lady who has a chip on her shoulder...
Charlie

[Mr. Mike]

Religion is like a penis.

 It's OK if you have one (or if you don't).
 It's OK to be proud of it.
 But don't whip it out in public and start waving it around.
 Don't try to write laws with it.
 Don't try to push it down anyone's throat.

Interesting.
You my friend willfully walked into the room, then have the nerve to say to the poster,
“Don’t push it down my throat”. So original, and like a post prior to that, it had the same attitude. Why come in? Why engage since you miss the point.
And neither is it about “religion” as someone else suggested.

The original post was to certainly cause a discussion, but the likes of this (Scott’s) and other responses is nothing short of calling for the close of the shop in IMHO.
Charlie has offered to whoever would listen an interesting video series. He is dedicated to serving his Lord and Savior (and like myself) sharing our faith to whoever might listen...thats listen, not shove. If the best the forum (except evanpi...that was a good gif!) can do is shout him down, engage in the trading of differences of opinion over times, places, races, etc., in un-gentlemen like name calling fashion (“I dont give a sh*t what you believe”, and “you dont know what you’re talking about”), then I would suggest it’s over.

No one has offered any response of substance based on the video itself other than “the narrator was annoying” and this whole discussion has descended into a tit for tat exchange with no value at this point based on the latest content. I kind of get this vision like a Taiwanese governmental brawl is occurring at this point (heavy sarcasm here).
Thank you Charlie for being a servant of the Most High God, doing what your called to do in good Christian form. I get it.

Anyone who chose to come into this room knew what it was about...Jesus Christ.
Anyone who knows anything about Jesus Christ will find that what has been spoken about him here in this discussion is Bible based on accounts and references found in the Bible and other forms of authenticated discovery. So you chose to enter, and now you want to argue, curse and berate. Too many birds in the tree now.

“Suppose ye that I come to give peace on the earth? I tell you nay, but rather division”
And as Mark Cuban would say, “I’m out”.

[Yamahawk]

I am pretty sure that everyone who has read this dialog has a knowledge of John 3:16. But not many know what Jesus continued to say through 3:17-21. Here it is. In a way that most can see and understand what it says.
John 3:16-21
“This is how much God loved the world: He gave his Son, his one and only Son. And this is why: so that no one need be destroyed; by believing in him, anyone can have a whole and lasting life. God didn’t go to all the trouble of sending his Son merely to point an accusing finger, telling the world how bad it was. He came to help, to put the world right again. Anyone who trusts in him is acquitted; anyone who refuses to trust him has long since been under the death sentence without knowing it. And why? Because of that person’s failure to believe in the one-of-a-kind Son of God when introduced to him.
 “This is the crisis we’re in: God-light streamed into the world, but men and women everywhere ran for the darkness. They went for the darkness because they were not really interested in pleasing God. Everyone who makes a practice of doing evil, addicted to denial and illusion, hates God-light and won’t come near it, fearing a painful exposure. But anyone working and living in truth and reality welcomes God-light so the work can be seen for the God-work it is.”
So, here is a good Father who wishes none to be convicted of their sentence of death... and the reason why, for thousands of years, they have hid from Him.

I am introducing You to Him, right now. Your choice is to ignore Him, or say, "How do You do? It's nice to meet You."
You might ask... "why do you talk of God as though He were a real Person?" And it is because... He Is.
Mr. Mike, I understand your pain over the comments, but Jesus said if they hate you, it is because they hated Me first. I understand the transference of the people who don't understand what He wants for everyone. He doesn't want anyone to perish, but again, it is a choice... not a command, as God is a Gentleman, and doesn't force anyone to come to Him. And that is how it is. Free will gives us the Choice. God bless ya brother.
Charlie

[Scott S]

Religion is like a penis.

 It's OK if you have one (or if you don't).
 It's OK to be proud of it.
 But don't whip it out in public and start waving it around.
 Don't try to write laws with it.
 Don't try to push it down anyone's throat.

Interesting.
You my friend willfully walked into the room, then have the nerve to say to the poster,
“Don’t push it down my throat”. So original, and like a post prior to that, it had the same attitude. Why come in? Why engage since you miss the point.
And neither is it about “religion” as someone else suggested.

 First off, that quote spoke nothing of my beliefs. You, nor anyone else here, knows my personal beliefs or of my relationship with God.
 "Willfully walked into the room"? "Why come in"? Sir, this is a public forum. And a MOTORCYCLE forum, at that. That door was open to all the second the O.P. hit the "Post" button. If you aren't open to opposing views or questioning, then maybe it shouldn't be here.
 And to say that this isn't about religion is downright preposterous.

The original post was to certainly cause a discussion, but the likes of this (Scott’s) and other responses is nothing short of calling for the close of the shop in IMHO.

 I never once called for shutting down this thread. But, there's a reason the forum has a  NO POLITICS rule; and that's because people see the world in different ways and no amount of arguing can change a persons opinion.
 This is a WORLD WIDE forum and there are people of many nationalities and beliefs here that do NOT have the same world view as you or me or Yamahawk. Is a model specific motorcycle forum the place to get into a spitting contest over them?

 I've had discussions with the forum owner and other mods about a specific sub-forum to discuss things like politics, religion, etc., and, as of this moment, they have chosen to NOT have one for this specific reason.
 If people can have pages long, heated discussions over what OIL to use, do you really think you can talk about your PERSONAL beliefs and then get upset when someone has an opposing view or argument? That's not cool, either.


 I'm not gonna close this thread, that will be up to one of the other mods, but everyone here has to be open to ALL sides.
 And ANYONE that decides to start a religion thread (or a politics thread) HAS to know where it eventually leads.

 (Edited for grammar and spelling mistakes, not content)

[BobbyR]

As the originator of the Babe Thread I endured a lot of abuse about it's appropriateness and the first two versions were deleted.

Many of the detractors were doing so on "religious grounds". I have no ill will toward them, except for one asshat. It came down to having some rational rules, and people had the choice to go there or not. It is the second most visited thread on here. It is a goof and always has been. It is a break from carb synching, tire selection and other topics that have been gone over since this place was a email server. It does have rules, and this should have rules so that name calling and other bad behavior is not tolerated.

 As a Freeemason we believe in ONE God and that all religions that have ONE god all worship the same one, so all are welcome and respected as equals. Two rules in Masonic Lodges is that Religion and Politics may not be discussed. It falls under the title of "Subjects that devide Men"  We also believe that the universe was created and carefully architected and is therefore perfect.

Given my experience with the Babe Thread I would never call for deleting a thread in which people act in a civil manner. Religion and politics tend to bring out passions in people that can easily degrade into uncivil behavior.

Yamahwak you started this thing, so it is on you to keep it under control. That is how a community works.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Religion is like a penis.

 It's OK if you have one (or if you don't).
 It's OK to be proud of it.
 But don't whip it out in public and start waving it around.
 Don't try to write laws with it.
 Don't try to push it down anyone's throat.

Yep.

If your religion is great you shouldn't have to peddle it to people.

[Yamahawk]

As the originator of the Babe Thread I endured a lot of abuse about it's appropriateness and the first two versions were deleted.

Many of the detractors were doing so on "religious grounds". I have no ill will toward them, except for one asshat. It came down to having some rational rules, and people had the choice to go there or not. It is the second most visited thread on here. It is a goof and always has been. It is a break from carb synching, tire selection and other topics that have been gone over since this place was a email server. It does have rules, and this should have rules so that name calling and other bad behavior is not tolerated.

 As a Freeemason we believe in ONE God and that all religions that have ONE god all worship the same one, so all are welcome and respected as equals. Two rules in Masonic Lodges is that Religion and Politics may not be discussed. It falls under the title of "Subjects that devide Men"  We also believe that the universe was created and carefully architected and is therefore perfect.

Given my experience with the Babe Thread I would never call for deleting a thread in which people act in a civil manner. Religion and politics tend to bring out passions in people that can easily degrade into uncivil behavior.

Yamahwak you started this thing, so it is on you to keep it under control. That is how a community works.

Thanks, Bobby I appreciate your feedback. I am trying to keep it under control, and if I or Mr. Mike have posted anything that offended people, well, I apologize. It isn't my intent to aggravate or cause ill will. I also do know that that gospel message (good News) is an offense to the world. I believe that Paul state this in 1 Corinthians chapter 1...

1 Cor 1:18-25
 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but it is God’s power to us who are being saved. 19 For it is written:

I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and I will set aside the understanding of the experts. (Paul quotes Isaiah 29:14)
20 Where is the philosopher? Where is the scholar? Where is the debater of this age? Hasn’t God made the world’s wisdom foolish? 21 For since, in God’s wisdom, the world did not know God through wisdom, God was pleased to save those who believe through the foolishness of the message preached. 22 For the Jews ask for signs and the Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to the Jews and foolishness to the Gentiles.(or Greeks) 24 Yet to those who are (the) called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ is God’s power and God’s wisdom, 25 because God’s foolishness is wiser than human wisdom, and God’s weakness is stronger than human strength.

Scott, I am stating again, that I don't condone religion. Christianity has been made into one by well-meaning men, who don't really Know Jesus, but know about Him. Even He stated that religion is offensive to God, so I can relate to why it is offensive to mere men. I didn't take offense to your posting about Penises.. in fact I found it amusing, as we all have the ability to make fun of things, in good humor. I also recognized your intent, and am still not offended. This world is full of offenses, and if I, as a follower of Christ Jesus and His teachings, become offended with such a small thing, then am I really following what is taught by the Holy Spirit? NO.
I think Mr. Mike became overwhelmed by the negativity expressed here, and that is for him to work out. But I am thankful that he took time to engage. Please try to give him some understanding also, as I believe he is a young Christ follower.
I do not take offense by others who may have opposing views, or no view at all. And there is a lot of crap out there on this 'ol internet, being posted as 'truth'... I like the good 'ol fashioned way of research, that includes books lol...and books written by both believers and atheists, for how do I know what to say if I do not understand the view of this world.
As for your point of "don't try to write laws with it", most laws we have in USA and several other countries, were written to conform to the Biblical view and Laws given there. So it's already been done.
When you take God out of any country, we get what we ask for. Isaiah 9:10 was Israel's rebellion against God, and in USA, after 9/11, no less than 3 of our governmental leaders quoted that verse... and yes, America is in rebellion to God, as Israel was.
What is the final outcome from all of this? Only God Knows. But, we are given a foreknowledge in the final Book, Revelation. I pray that we can all come to a Knowledge of God, and Jesus Christ. It is a choice.
Charlie

[Yamahawk]

Well put, Bobby. However, I will add the following:

There is little dispute that Charlie intended (voluntarily or involuntarily) for this thread to become an opportunity to evangelize. There’s absolutely no harm or malice in that intent, after all, he is following his Christian decree of walking the path of his beliefs. Well done to you, Charlie.

For those who “disagree” or “dispute” the nature and notion of this thread, why not simply steer clear of it? Why feel it mandatory to enter into a debate or fray with which you hold no common agreement? By your own admission, you knowingly assert that you won’t change Charlie’s belief, nor will your be swayed, so why engage? It calls into question your motive, not his.

A post needn’t become an opportunity to debate, though many do. Charlie used this thread as “bait” and many have taken it. Again, it’s what he’s supposed to do within his beliefs; to evangelize, to minister, to preach the Word he believes to be true. Why “peddle” his beliefs to anyone else? Because wouldn’t you want to share news/insight that you find to bring joy, happiness, enrichment with your fellow man? Of course you would. So he does.

I call the thread “bait” because it is. It is bait to bring the unbelieving to awareness of something they may not have known, something they may not have heard, or to simply defend something Charlie feels/believes strongly about. It is bait because Jesus was a “Fisher of men’s souls”. And you catch the best fish with tantalizing bait.

Two sides will always cite their preferred sources in argument that agree or support their position. It doesn’t make either side right or wrong, just in disagreement. If you are agnostic, aetheist, or non-theist, you’ll never be persuaded to any God until such time as you, individually, decide to embark upon a journey to know the truth of what you believe. Simple as that.

So I encourage anyone put off, in disagreement or at odds with the thread, to simply move along and change the channel. Exercise the Free Will with which you’ve been bestowed and guaranteed by most country’s constitutions. Plenty of oil, tire and ignition threads abound on this forum for your sniping participation.

All I can say, is... Thank you... Cal, I appreciate your input, and as most things you post, are well said. God bless you, Sir.
Charlie

[Yamahawk]

Okay, Charlie, Pop Quiz time!

A simple question for you: Is the Bible true?

It is True Cal, meaning there is no lies in it. There is history in the O.T. that points to Christ coming in the flesh, and the N.T. is His Story.
Charlie

[Yamahawk]

Okay, you say it’s true.

Next question: How do you know?

After careful consideration of each thing I have read, and by reading about what supporting evidence has been found to support what is said, and by my own personal Faith, I have determined that the history is accurate, and that there is a God Who is revealed in the 66 Books, written by various authors, over a period of at least 1,500 to 2,000 years. Now, how do I know that God exists? By His creation, for one... all creation testifies of God. We, as men, cannot fathom the complexity of even a flower, let alone all of creation.
Now... Asking if the Bible is true, we must first Know what truth is? What is truth, and are there different truths for different people? Truth is what reveals Reality. If it isn't real, it isn't true. Consequently, what is Real is True, and what is unreal, is not true. Is there only One Truth? Yes. There is only One Reality, and that is our existence, and the reality of existence.
Now how do I know the Bible has accurate Truth in it? By the accuracy of the subject matter included in it. There are many claims that it has been recently written, to fool the masses, or that it is incomplete, or has been materially changed for social manipulation. These claims are easily refuted with reality. In reality, there are documents in existence (REAL) that corroborate the 98.5% accuracy of what we have as or Bible today, and they have been translated accurately. Are these translations divine revelation? The translators will tell you that only the original document, in its original language, written by the original author who was inspired by God to write it, are the only inspired Word gf God. What we have today, are good translations of the message that was originally given by God to each author of the 66 Books. The authors and translators of the KJV Bible tell us this in their Preface to the People... which has been removed from all KJV Bible since the 1870's. Only one still has it, and it is in one of the churches in England. But, you can find it on the internet, and I encourage reading of it.
Another reason I have for knowing it is true, is continuing archaeological evidence that shows locations accurately that have been written about in the Bible. or example, the Hittites as referenced in the O.T. have been thought of as a myth, until a recent archaeological expedition found a tablet that mentions them, from the Sumerians, or someone, I can't remember... Another example is the Pool of Siloam, where Jesus washed the mud He made out of the blind man's eyes and he was healed. It has been found in 2012 in Jerusalem.
And the last thing is, my Faith in God, which is how we come to Him, has corroborated in my heart what I read is true. Hope this answers in part, your question
Charlie

[Yamahawk]

It does, in a wordy, roundabout way 

When asked this question, many Christians respond with “Because I raised with this belief”, or “because I have its true”, or some variant of that. When I suggest to them, “You should never believe anything you don’t know the truth of” you should see the look on their faces.

When these people have turned the table on me, I answer, and then when they ask “how do I know?”, I again answer. When they ask, “How do you know the truth?”, I answer. It’s odd, many who profess a belief never actually learn how to substantiate that belief.

I was purely asking you, Charlie (knowing full well already how you’d answer) to demonstrate a point. And by the way, you scored a perfect 100 

Thanks Cal, I am an old fisherman from Way Back... but thanks for the opportunity to go fishing.
I understand that a lot of Christians today do not know how to express their 'belief' in God, which leads to some losing that 'belief'. So what is the answer to their dilemma?
To Know is more than Belief.
To Be.. as Shakespeare said, is to exist or not to exist.. To Be, or Not To Be, that is the question.
To Leave (or lieve) is to not examine to see why. So you have something that exists, but are not going to examine it to see if it is True (reality). This leads to a problem with Knowing God instead of knowing about God. Everyone who believe without Knowing is in danger from some slick talking huckster who can change their 'belief'. Happens every day... So we must be ready to give witness of why we believe, and Know why.
Charlie

[Duke McDukiedook]

Willpower does not create certainty.

[Yamahawk]

I love Penn Gilette, he's a very good entertainer. And the fellow next to him there, is one of the Christians that Cal and I were talking about that have belief without actually Knowing... that is, if it wasn't a set up by our friend Penn. 
Here's another clip from Penn that tells us about why we as Christians are compelled to tell others about Jesus Christ...

Charlie

[Duke McDukiedook]

Okay, Charlie, more Pop Quiz time!

A simple question for you: Why does God need my money?

[Cougars750F0]

What's heaven like? Can you still ride? Hang out with friends? Is there a list of those that didn't make it?

[Cougars750F0]

Sounds pretty exclusive. Can Buddhists get in? What about animals?

[carnivorous chicken]

Sounds pretty exclusive. Can Buddhists get in? What about animals?

There are evangelicals who don't think Mother Theresa will get in because she's Catholic...

[carnivorous chicken]

Charlie used this thread as “bait” and many have taken it.

Well yes, of course.

I hesitate to wade in – I’m not trying to convince someone to change their mind and think the same way that I do, which is part of the evangelical mission – but there are a few things in this thread worth addressing.

But then in polite society you don't get to say something patently offensive and demeaning without someone piping in. I appreciate, Cal, that you didn't resort to name calling this time for people who think differently than you. Genuinely. That's one way to simply piss people off and I'm glad you avoided it this time.

What's offensive and demeaning? Not the factual errors that have been repeated. Not the double standards in what is determined to be valid evidence. But condemning the followers of a religion -- yes, Buddhism is a religion, this is a fact not an opinion -- is offensive. I'm guessing that the OP can't differentiate Mahayana, Theravada, and Tibetan Buddhism, tell me the difference between a Nyat and a Boddhisatva, nor differentiate between twelvers and seveners (although this is just a google click away). It's also fine to think that you're right and everyone else is wrong (in other endeavors, it's considered smug), but to broadcast that while demeaning people who don't think like you just doesn't sit well with some people (and clearly not just me). Notice that nobody here who disagrees with the OP is trying to convince anyone else that the OP is wrong -- they sensibly realize that this course is simply a source for more conflict. I'm glad the OP has found whatever path he thinks is best for him, I just wish he would let others follow the paths they've chosen without badgering them about how they're wrong or demeaning them by telling them they're beliefs aren't real.

Genuinely wish you all the best of luck.

[Cougars750F0]

This is what a Google search came up with.  What most people call "heaven" is actually an eternal city which the Bible calls the "new Jerusalem."1 It will be spectacular. As a sampling, here is what heaven will look like.

A river, clear as crystal, will flow from the throne of God and of the Lamb [Jesus] down the middle of the city. On each side of the river there will be a tree of life, yielding twelve kinds of fruit every month. The streets will be pure gold, like transparent glass. The walls of the city will be adorned with every kind of jewel, emerald, onyx, amethyst, topaz, etc. There will be no need for a sun or moon, and no need for a temple or church. The presence of the Lord will be its light. If this is the truth God is into some serious bling. Why gold streets? Is this for some kind of heavenly convenience? I  personally would prefer more nature. Seems like walking around on gold wouldn't be very comfortable. Do you walk in heaven? Maybe heavens residents fly or float.  Doesn't seem to make it any better.

[Yamahawk]

Ah, the Ghost of Mr. Chicken... still awaiting one smidge of credible evidence from you, sir. To be a double standard one must voice a scrap of credible evidence, and you have not done that.

Sounds pretty exclusive. Can Buddhists get in? What about animals?

There are evangelicals who don't think Mother Theresa will get in because she's Catholic...

Did you know that Mother Theresa wasn't sure of her own salvation...? She was a hell of a servant, she had compassion upon those whom society has shunned, as unclean. Yet, SHE was unsure. I don't know about her salvation as if it was of works only, then she hasn't got grace from Jesus Christ, as that is what saves us... not of works that I have done. However, works after salvation is for the reward that will be given in God's presence.

What's heaven like? Can you still ride? Hang out with friends? Is there a list of those that didn't make it?

I wish I knew. I have little chance of ever seeing it, so if you get there, send me a post card would you?

Cal, you don't have to worry if you have given yourself to Christ, at any time. For we aren't condemned by what we have done, but for what we haven't done. We are saved by grace, through Faith... and the One who did the work so that we might have it, is Jesus Christ. For if it was from works, you might boast about what you have done to be right with God... Thank God He made the Way, this way.

Okay, Charlie, more Pop Quiz time!

A simple question for you: Why does God need my money?

Duke, its amazingly simple.. He doesn't need your money.. He requires your Heart. He owns the cattle on a thousand hills. Among other things.... Now, the modern church has a warped idea about giving, calling it tithing. This is the O.T. way that the Israelites were to support the Tribe of Levi, where the priests came from to take care of the Tabernacle or Temple... God also told them that He requires Obedience over Sacrifices. A broken and contrite Spirit and a Broken Heart is what God wants from each of us.
Now today, it is giving from what you have (abundance) or what you don't have (poverty) that God wants you to give.
Example: If you make $700/mo from SSI, and your bills are
$650/mo, it is not possible to give 10% of what you make as you would starve or not be able to live... so, God doesn't want you to give what would hurt you. On the other hand, If you make $700,000 a month, you could live comfortably on a fraction of that, so your giving might be 90% of what you make. This is what each of us is to determine, not by a percentage, by out of our abundance or poverty. Brings to mind the widow who put in the two pennies (mites) VS the Pharisees who put in more, but it wasn't in proportion as to what she gave, which was all she had. God doesn't want your money, Duke... He wants your heart.

Sounds pretty exclusive. Can Buddhists get in? What about animals?

I don’t know who gets in, just that it won’t be me. I don’t think Buddhists would want to, but they would have to change their belief system to even find the place. Yes to animals; after all humans are animals.

It's not exclusive... anyone can enter in. And Cal, if you feel that there is something you have done in your life that is 'unforgivable', it's not. And as far as animals, I Don't Know... as Penn said lol. I hope so, for I have had some very well loved dogs and cats, let alone birds, that I would love to see again. Again, none of us are God, so we cannot even fathom what He thinks, or what He decides. I am ok with that. For I know He is a Good, Good, Father. He gives Good Gifts. And He loves me more than I can ever know. I know He loves each of you in the same Way.
BTW- I didn't call Buddhists 'irreligious' that was Mr. Chicken that put those words in my mouth... I simply stated that in my world view, you have to have a God to be a religious system. They follow a system of meditation, and non-violence, which is eroding away. There are some that have now resorted to that, why? Because they are human. They belong to a lost and dying world... and have succumbed to it. I find no hope in anything of this world, it isn't getting better, and will continue on its way to destruction.
As far as a list of those who didn't make it, there is a list in the Book of Life, as to who does make it. God has that Book, and if your Name isn't in it, then no... you didn't make it. That Book will be opened at the last judgment, called the Great White Throne Judgment. I hope none of you make that one. Again, this isn't me making up stuff, it's what God has planned. You all have the choice to bow your knee now, or later, and with your tongue confess that Jesus Christ is LORD. Now or later... it is a choice... You don't have to. Or you can choose to.
Now as far as the New Jerusalem, that's pretty cool. I don't know if the streets are as gold, or made of gold, it doesn't really matter if you are there, as money and greed will be non-existent. The vision that you are quoting is from John in his Revelation, and it is what the angel of the LORD showed him. Thanks for sharing that Brother! There will be no time, either.. so it will be like.. now... just... NOW. Forever. That's pretty cool too.
Charlie

[Bailgang]

With quantum physics saying the possibility of multiple universe and or dimensions perhaps an infinite amount of then then for all I know heaven may be right here right now occupying the same exact space we're in just on a different "channel" that we're oblivious to. I honestly have no clue but I do have a firm belief in God while at the same time I find science especially quantum physics absolute fascinating. You would think the 2 would clash but for me science actually confirms my belief more and more, my only regret that I didn't take math more seriously in school so that I could explore quantum physics in a more serious manner. I''ll spare all of you any details on why I feel the way I do, it's rather complex and I'm not here to preach either.

[Cougars750F0]

 Evidence of what? I haven't mentioned my beliefs I've only brought up a couple of things that I find interesting. Why do you think I have a double standard? That maybe be something you might want to look into. What about the Kingdom of Heaven? Who's King? God? You mentioned that Buddha can't be a God because he was a king. How's that work? I personally don't feel I have the rite to judge people's beliefs and I feel that if it doesn't hurt anyone and makes them feel better about life than good for them!

[Yamahawk]

With quantum physics saying the possibility of multiple universe and or dimensions perhaps an infinite amount of then then for all I know heaven may be right here right now occupying the same exact space we're in just on a different "channel" that we're oblivious to. I honestly have no clue but I do have a firm belief in God while at the same time I find science especially quantum physics absolute fascinating. You would think the 2 would clash but for me science actually confirms my belief more and more, my only regret that I didn't take math more seriously in school so that I could explore quantum physics in a more serious manner. I''ll spare all of you any details on why I feel the way I do, it's rather complex and I'm not here to preach either.

For me, Science is also an affirmation of God. I find it fascinating that God is Triune (3 in 1) and so are His creation of all things. Take electricity, for example... you have volts, amps, and watts. All three are different attributes of what we call electricity, yet none can exist without the others... Thanks for the input, Brother.

Evidence of what? I haven't mentioned my beliefs I've only brought up a couple of things that I find interesting. Why do you think I have a double standard? That maybe be something you might want to look into. What about the Kingdom of Heaven? Who's King? God? You mentioned that Buddha can't be a God because he was a king. How's that work? I personally don't feel I have the rite to judge people's beliefs and I feel that if it doesn't hurt anyone and makes them feel better about life than good for them!

Let's try to follow along... I was referring to Mr. Chicken, who hasn't given the slightest shred of corroboration to what he is alluding to.. and you sir are just a very mixed up person. Try to sort out what you read, and then make an informed comment. I appreciate your input, by the way.
Charlie

[BobR]

The Dragon In My Garage
by Carl Sagan

"A fire-breathing dragon lives in my garage"

Suppose (I'm following a group therapy approach by the psychologist Richard Franklin) I seriously make such an assertion to you.  Surely you'd want to check it out, see for yourself.  There have been innumerable stories of dragons over the centuries, but no real evidence. What an opportunity!

"Show me," you say.  I lead you to my garage.  You look inside and see a ladder, empty paint cans, an old tricycle -- but no dragon.

"Where's the dragon?" you ask.

"Oh, she's right here," I reply, waving vaguely.  "I neglected to mention that she's an invisible dragon."

You propose spreading flour on the floor of the garage to capture the dragon's footprints.

"Good idea," I say, "but this dragon floats in the air."

Then you'll use an infrared sensor to detect the invisible fire.

"Good idea, but the invisible fire is also heatless."

You'll spray-paint the dragon and make her visible.

"Good idea, but she's an incorporeal dragon and the paint won't stick."  And so on.  I counter every physical test you propose with a special explanation of why it won't work.

Now, what's the difference between an invisible, incorporeal, floating dragon who spits heatless fire and no dragon at all?  If there's no way to disprove my contention, no conceivable experiment that would count against it, what does it mean to say that my dragon exists?  Your inability to invalidate my hypothesis is not at all the same thing as proving it true.  Claims that cannot be tested, assertions immune to disproof are veridically worthless, whatever value they may have in inspiring us or in exciting our sense of wonder.  What I'm asking you to do comes down to believing, in the absence of evidence, on my say-so.  The only thing you've really learned from my insistence that there's a dragon in my garage is that something funny is going on inside my head.  You'd wonder, if no physical tests apply, what convinced me.  The possibility that it was a dream or a hallucination would certainly enter your mind.  But then, why am I taking it so seriously?  Maybe I need help.  At the least, maybe I've seriously underestimated human fallibility.  Imagine that, despite none of the tests being successful, you wish to be scrupulously open-minded.  So you don't outright reject the notion that there's a fire-breathing dragon in my garage.  You merely put it on hold.  Present evidence is strongly against it, but if a new body of data emerge you're prepared to examine it and see if it convinces you.  Surely it's unfair of me to be offended at not being believed; or to criticize you for being stodgy and unimaginative -- merely because you rendered the Scottish verdict of "not proved."

Imagine that things had gone otherwise.  The dragon is invisible, all right, but footprints are being made in the flour as you watch.  Your infrared detector reads off-scale.  The spray paint reveals a jagged crest bobbing in the air before you.  No matter how skeptical you might have been about the existence of dragons -- to say nothing about invisible ones -- you must now acknowledge that there's something here, and that in a preliminary way it's consistent with an invisible, fire-breathing dragon.

Now another scenario: Suppose it's not just me.  Suppose that several people of your acquaintance, including people who you're pretty sure don't know each other, all tell you that they have dragons in their garages -- but in every case the evidence is maddeningly elusive.  All of us admit we're disturbed at being gripped by so odd a conviction so ill-supported by the physical evidence.  None of us is a lunatic.  We speculate about what it would mean if invisible dragons were really hiding out in garages all over the world, with us humans just catching on.  I'd rather it not be true, I tell you.  But maybe all those ancient European and Chinese myths about dragons weren't myths at all.

Gratifyingly, some dragon-size footprints in the flour are now reported.  But they're never made when a skeptic is looking.  An alternative explanation presents itself.  On close examination it seems clear that the footprints could have been faked.  Another dragon enthusiast shows up with a burnt finger and attributes it to a rare physical manifestation of the dragon's fiery breath.  But again, other possibilities exist.  We understand that there are other ways to burn fingers besides the breath of invisible dragons.  Such "evidence" -- no matter how important the dragon advocates consider it -- is far from compelling.  Once again, the only sensible approach is tentatively to reject the dragon hypothesis, to be open to future physical data, and to wonder what the cause might be that so many apparently sane and sober people share the same strange delusion.