Topic: RaceTech - gold valves - total fork rebuild

[SKTP]

So I shelled out way too much money on having RaceTech rebuild my forks. I shipped them to RaceTech and had them do all the work. They even up sold me new fork tubes (which I may or may not have needed).

I'm having my bike rebuilt by an excellent CB750 mechanic. I had the forks shipped to him. He says that they feel way too soft. Like near nonexistent dampening.

I contacted RaceTech and they say that since the forks shipped laying down. The oil is not in the right place and they will "pump up" with use. Since I currently do not have access to my bike, I'm trying to figure out if they will start working, or if RachTech made a mistake?

So has anybody else encountered this issue?

Also side note: RaceTech has terrible customer service. During this entire process they have made me feel like I'm bothering them to take my money. Honestly, even before I encountered this potential issue (I'm still hoping the forks/valves start working), because not only is their customer service terrible, they are slow too. These emulators and springs better be pretty fricking amazing once this is all finished because this entire process, that I was originally so excited about, has totally sucked.

[seanbarney41]

Nope, absolutely not at all.  I found them to have, by far, THE BEST customer service of any company I have ever bought parts from.  I did not have them work on my forks, just bought the parts and did the work myself, which was completed in one afternoon of wrenching.  They answered my many questions via email very quickly and thoroughly.  Best $350 (or so) I ever spent on a bike.  The performance improvement is just amazing.

If your mechanic is just expecting your forks to feel "stiffer", that is not necessarily the result you want or recieved.

[Yamahawk]

RaceTech will give you a good fork when they are done. They consider the bike weight, YOUR weight, and any other factors, such as two-up riding, racing etc. to arrive at your calculated spring rate. The factory springs on every bike made are too light of a rate to begin with, then they go downhill from there.
Now... for the money, Matt Patton will convert your forks the take GSXR600 cartridges, with springs and valving suited to your bike and weight also. Then you have the adjustable damping at the top, which I believe is rebound... the original GSXR600 forks have another adjustment at the bottom, which is compression damping, but he doesn't have the capability to add that to your forks, so you adjust that with the proper weight fork oil.
I know he can do 36mm forks, and up in size. the 41mm SV650 forks are his forte, and the race guys love his work. I had him do a set of 36mm 250 Ninja forks for a racebikje I am building, and haven't tried them out, but the spring rate on those is .8Kg (350lb bike), so RaceTech should have installed at least .9Kg or better in the CB750 if it is still close to original weight. I have a set of ZG1000 forks I need to send to him when I get the funds, for my 2006 Concours... I bought the GSXR forks already, and will send him the internals.
Charlie

[Steve_K]

I had the same great results with RaceTech gold values and I did the easy machine work myself.  Hardest thing for  me was getting the spring preload to suit me.   I got that right then with the damping settings  the fork were perfect. Best money spent on a bike for me.
Steve

[Yamahawk]

Mike's XS has cartridge emulators for 35mm forks, I have used them in a couple bikes, and they work great, too... and for the price, you can't beat them. If the CB750 forks use the same type dampers, they would work for half the price of RaceTech.
Charlie

[SKTP]

So talked to my mechanic more today. He says the fork feel "fine" but are nothing special. He has been riding CB750s since the 70s and says we could have just used progressive springs and heavier weight oil to achieve comparable results for a fraction of the cost. I heard about Mike's XS and after researching online but wanted to support RaceTech since it seems they are the innovators of these things and they are made in the USA and all that...I guess I won't really know until I drive the bike...

How do your Emulators feel?...My Mechanic says they do not feel "stiff" at all and it just feels like a regular CB750 front end. I had RaceTech set them up for my weight 200lbs and my bike for "Experienced rider" "Sport". Will post an update soon. If all goes well I get my bike back this weekend. Fourth time better be the charm.

[Yamahawk]

So talked to my mechanic more today. He says the fork feel "fine" but are nothing special. He has been riding CB750s since the 70s and says we could have just used progressive springs and heavier weight oil to achieve comparable results for a fraction of the cost. I heard about Mike's XS and after researching online but wanted to support RaceTech since it seems they are the innovators of these things and they are made in the USA and all that...I guess I won't really know until I drive the bike...

How do your Emulators feel?...My Mechanic says they do not feel "stiff" at all and it just feels like a regular CB750 front end. I had RaceTech set them up for my weight 200lbs and my bike for "Experienced rider" "Sport". Will post an update soon. If all goes well I get my bike back this weekend. Fourth time better be the charm.

You still set up your rebound damping with the weight of fork oil, and level of oil. The emulators can be set stiffer or less stiff by adjusting the set screw in or out on the emulator(4 turns is for performance, 2 for street). RaceTech should have got them close, but if you don't feel they are stiff enough, they are adjustable. Now, what Kg spring did RaceTech install in your forks? They should have at least a .85 to 1.0Kg spring weight for your bike and your weight. If your bike is stock, it should weigh between 500 and 550 lb., and with your 200lb. weight, that's 700-750lb. That should equate out to a .9 to 1.1Kg spring weight. Let me know what your invoice says they installed.
Now, my race bike is an RD350(Mike's XS emulators) , and a VTR250 Interceptor. The VTR250 only weighs 350lb, and with me on it around 530 max. I have emulators from Jamie Daugherty in the VTR250, and .8Kg springs and it rides well, and performs great at the track.
Charlie

[seanbarney41]

yep, if there is something you don't like about it after riding, everything can be adjusted.  I had them give me a baseline set up based on my weights, road conditions, and intended purposes, and really have to say they nailed it.

[slikwilli420]

If your mechanic doesn't see how these are superior to progressive springs he needs to do some research, as he clearly didn't understand suspension.  They won't feel any different on the bench but will when you ride the bike. This system offers far greater adjustability. Progressive springs are at best a band aid and offer no tuning for weight or riding style.

[Yamahawk]

If your mechanic doesn't see how these are superior to progressive springs he needs to do some research, as he clearly didn't understand suspension.  They won't feel any different on the bench but will when you ride the bike. This system offers far greater adjustability. Progressive springs are at best a band aid and offer no tuning for weight or riding style.

Correct. And if you don't increase the spring load over what stock is, you will still have springs that are too light.
Example: My 2006 Kawasaki COucours is a 650lb bike, and the stock spring rate is .65Kg.  WAY too light for such a heavy bike! Then, factor in spring sag from age, and your springs are in need of an upgrade! The Concours should have a spring rate of 1.1Kg or higher, for the street. Should I be able to afford it this year, I have an extra set of forks and the cartridges from a set of late 90's GSXR600 forks, and will have Matt Patton convert them to cartridge style, with the correct spring rate.

So talked to my mechanic more today. He says the fork feel "fine" but are nothing special. He has been riding CB750s since the 70s and says we could have just used progressive springs and heavier weight oil to achieve comparable results for a fraction of the cost. I heard about Mike's XS and after researching online but wanted to support RaceTech since it seems they are the innovators of these things and they are made in the USA and all that...I guess I won't really know until I drive the bike...

How do your Emulators feel?...My Mechanic says they do not feel "stiff" at all and it just feels like a regular CB750 front end. I had RaceTech set them up for my weight 200lbs and my bike for "Experienced rider" "Sport". Will post an update soon. If all goes well I get my bike back this weekend. Fourth time better be the charm.

Please do update us once you actually ride your bike. It is hard to tell suspension before you really ride the thing. Now, I am supposing that you have ridden your bike before you sent all these parts off to be upgraded/built by your 'mechanic' friend?
And your forks will feel correct with proper damping and may not feel "stiff" at all. They aren't supposed to. They are to feel like a good fork should, supple and compliant over bumps and braking, while doing this with your weight and the bike's weight.  Again, find out what your spring rate is now, from RaceTech for the springs they installed.
Charlie

[SKTP]

Yes, I realize I may have jumped the gun with this thread since I haven't ridden them yet. But when I received a text saying "these forks feel like there's no dampening at all happening" I was pretty freaked out. Apparently they have not improved after sitting upright for soem time and being ridden a little.

The forks are set up as follows:

Emulator: FEGV 3001
Emulator Valve Spring 40
Turns of Valve Spring Preload 2.5
Emulator Bleed Holes 4
Oil Level 130mm
Spring Series FRSP S2341 Rate 0.85kg
Preload 15mm Preload Adj
Race Sag 35mm

Yes, I have ridden this bike extensively and have owned it for 11 or so years. It was my daily driver for 3 years and it had been up and down the West coast between LA an San Diego many, many times, Ortega, PHC, etc....When I changed rear shocks the difference was night and day, hoping to feel a significant improvement with the forks. I will report back soon...thanks for all of this feedback. Appreciated

[slikwilli420]

Yes, I realize I may have jumped the gun with this thread since I haven't ridden them yet. But when I received a text saying "these fork feel like there no dampening at all happening" I was pretty freaked out. Apparently they have not improved after sitting upright for soem time and being ridden a little.

The forks are set up as follows:

Emulator: FEGV 3001
Emulator Valve Spring 40
Turns of Valve Spring Preload 2.5
Emulator Bleed Holes 4
Oil Level 130mm
Spring Series FRSP S2341 Rate 0.85kg
Preload 15mm Preload Adj
Race Sag 35mm

Yes, I have ridden this bike extensively and have owned it for 11 or so years. It was my daily driver for 3 years and it had been up and down the West coast between LA an San Diego many, many times, Ortega, PHC, etc....When I changed rear shocks the difference was night and day, hoping to feel a significant improvement with the forks. I will report back soon...thanks for all of this feedback. Appreciated

None of that seems out of the ordinary based on what was done for my by race tech. What weight fork oil? When I had mine spec'd out, I gave rider and bike weight, and when I was racing at Barber this year Matt Wiley checked it all over and only changed preload by like 10mm, no emulator adjustments or oil level/weight adjustments. This is what these people do for a living and they know it very well. The technology itself is lightyears ahead of relying on a simple hole to control oil flow, so its bound to be far better based on that thought alone, not to mention getting the right springs for the job and proper oil.

[Yamahawk]

Ok! The spring rate seems ok for the street, and the 2.5 turns out would indicate damping also for the street. Normally for a firmer compression damping, they would be set at 4 turns in of the adjustment screw. The fork oil weight needs to be known also, as to why and what they used. That could be the lack of resistance you are experiencing. But the forks should give a comfortable ride. Now the sag seems a little bit much at 35mm, but perhaps they thought it would be better for the street. I would increase preload of the spring a little either by getting adjustable preload caps for the forks, or by using a slightly longer spacer. This will give a firmer spring initially.
Charlie