Author Topic: Bogging when gassing hard  (Read 8072 times)

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Offline Coredozer19

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Bogging when gassing hard
« on: April 15, 2018, 10:22:32 AM »
Bogging when hitting gas really hard for a “blip”. But if I back off and roll on to it, it revs out perfectly. I’m thinking a jetting issue. But I wanted some outsider advice. Thanks!
1973 Honda CB350F

Offline evinrude7

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Re: Bogging when gassing hard
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2018, 11:06:30 AM »
what rpm does that happen under load?  gear and rpm?
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Offline evinrude7

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Re: Bogging when gassing hard
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2018, 11:31:37 AM »
Bogging when hitting gas really hard for a “blip”. But if I back off and roll on to it, it revs out perfectly. I’m thinking a jetting issue. But I wanted some outsider advice. Thanks!
what rpm does that happen under load?  gear and rpm?
Pods? Stock air? Stock jets?

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Offline jgger

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Re: Bogging when gassing hard
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2018, 11:58:15 AM »
Check timing, plug/wire condition, valve clearance, and air cleaner condition first before diving directly into the carbs. Carb adjustments are usually the last item in a proper tune sequence. IMHO
"The SOHC4 uses a computer located about 2-3 ft above the seat.  Those sometimes need additional programming." -stolen from  Two Tired

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Offline evinrude7

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Re: Bogging when gassing hard
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2018, 02:50:52 PM »
he could be gassing it hard in 3rd gear with the motor turning 1600 rpm.  it's gonna bog then.   
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Offline jgger

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Re: Bogging when gassing hard
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2018, 03:47:08 PM »
If that's the case then it would take one hellofa tune to overcome that.
"The SOHC4 uses a computer located about 2-3 ft above the seat.  Those sometimes need additional programming." -stolen from  Two Tired

The difference between an ass kisser and brown noser is merely depth perception.  Stolen from RAFster122s

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Bogging when gassing hard
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2018, 04:47:53 PM »
Have an accelerator pump? If not, that’s pretty typical of carburetors without them. Can’t snap them open. You potentially could richen the pilot circuit to help but it’s not going to be eliminated.

Offline Coredozer19

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Re: Bogging when gassing hard
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2018, 05:06:11 PM »
Completely stock. Stock jets. Stock airbox. New plug wires everything is new. Everything is new. And this isn’t while driving. It’s while sitting there revving it. I haven’t really got to ride it yet honestly. (Got to get tires done) that’s why I’m asking about jets.
1973 Honda CB350F

Offline Coredozer19

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Re: Bogging when gassing hard
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2018, 05:08:03 PM »
Check timing, plug/wire condition, valve clearance, and air cleaner condition first before diving directly into the carbs. Carb adjustments are usually the last item in a proper tune sequence. IMHO

When you say timing. Are you talking cam timing or ignition points timing
1973 Honda CB350F

Offline jgger

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Re: Bogging when gassing hard
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2018, 05:14:25 PM »
Ignition,  if the cam timing is off something bad must have happened . Cam timing is set when the engine is assembled  and would only change if the chain jumped a tooth or two.

My point was don't go straight into the carbs without at least checking the other stuff first.
"The SOHC4 uses a computer located about 2-3 ft above the seat.  Those sometimes need additional programming." -stolen from  Two Tired

The difference between an ass kisser and brown noser is merely depth perception.  Stolen from RAFster122s

Offline Coredozer19

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Re: Bogging when gassing hard
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2018, 05:28:04 PM »
I’ve completely rebuilt everything. So there is no problem with normal operating systems. It has to do with the carbs.
1973 Honda CB350F

Offline evinrude7

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Re: Bogging when gassing hard
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2018, 05:41:47 PM »
I’ve completely rebuilt everything. So there is no problem with normal operating systems. It has to do with the carbs.

float height? 
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Offline Coredozer19

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Re: Bogging when gassing hard
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2018, 10:07:25 PM »
I already set the hight once but think I set them way to low so i dont know I may have to check again.
1973 Honda CB350F

Offline dave500

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Re: Bogging when gassing hard
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2018, 03:23:05 AM »
if your ripping the throttle open from idle in neutral itll bog!you cant just rip these open from idle itll bog,if you twist the throttle too fast from idle itll bog,do it from say 3500/4000 and itll spin up!

Offline Flyin900

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Re: Bogging when gassing hard
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2018, 05:09:22 AM »
My CB350F revs immediately from idle with no bog in neutral and pulls strong when the throttle is opened quickly through to 10K in the lower gears.
Just too many variables to guess what is happening on your bike. Best to go through each set up of the key items as if you were doing a full tune up. Mine has complete stock everything too other than 4 into 1 Mac exhaust.
Are you the guy who rebuilt the motor a number of times to get the rings in correctly? I would check all the electrical stuff first then look at the carbs last and if your float levels are low or the slow jets plugged you may find some of your issues there.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 05:12:15 AM by Flyin900 »
Common sense.....isn't so common!

1966 CL77 - 305cc - Gentleman's Scrambler
1967 CL175K0 - Scrambler #802 engine
1972 CB350F - Candy Bacchus Olive - Super Sport
1973 CB350F - Flake Matador Red - Super Sport
1975 CB400F - Parakeet Yellow - Super Sport
1976 CB400F - Varnish Blue - Super Sport
1976 GL1000 - Goldwing Standard
1978 CB550K - Super Sport
1981 GL1100 - Goldwing Standard
1982 CM450A - Hondamatic
1982 CB900C - Custom
1983 CX650E - Eurosport
1983 CB1000C - Custom X 2 Bikes now - both restored
1983 CB1100F - Super Sport - Pristine example
1984 GL1200 - Goldwing Standard

Offline Coredozer19

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Re: Bogging when gassing hard
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2018, 05:34:24 AM »
yeah sadly i'm that guy that f?$ked the rings up lol, but i fixed it now. (with all new rings)

all the jet are new so it couldn't be clogged, float height may be a concern, could it be starving for fuel due to a high demand and not a high enough supply?

and if most people are saying you cant get the engine to redline RPMs from a dead idle by ripping it, then it must be common.

i did a complete rebuild of everything with all brand new parts, so i think i want to put some miles on it before i start listening to symptoms to reach a diagnoses.

i know I need a new set of plugs because of my little ring mishap. so ill start with new plugs, reset points gap and go from there, i'm sure reading plugs can tell me whats going on, (ill be looking for a lean condition if its starving for fuel)
1973 Honda CB350F

Offline michaelb_650

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Re: Bogging when gassing hard
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2018, 09:33:43 AM »
If these are CV carbs, then I suspect the accelerator pump.  It's a small bowl between the middle two carbs, easy to miss.  Take it apart and inspect all of the passages; they are highly prone to sticking.  There's a small ball bearing and spring in there that don't like any kind of impurities.  Under high acceleration (quick throttle twist), they provide a burst of gas into the carb throats.  Without this burst, there's a rush of air without proportionate amount of fuel and there's a moment of hesitation.  HTH.

Offline Bodi

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Re: Bogging when gassing hard
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2018, 10:15:09 AM »
With slide carbs it's rather normal for the engine to bog from idle if you crank the throttle. CV carbs should handle it OK. No 350-4 had accelerator pumps, and they all have slide carbs as far as I know. There's something wrong if you can't get to redline in neutral if you open the throttle slowly, usually the ignition advancer is stuck but it could be valve timing or carb problems as well. Be careful revving in neutral, the tach is slower responding than the engine revs up and you can go well above if not careful, damaging internals.

Offline Flyin900

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Re: Bogging when gassing hard
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2018, 10:38:25 AM »
Definitely don't try to reline the motor in neutral you want a load on the engine. I wouldn't take it above 5-6K in neutral and especially since it is a new rebuild some road miles are a must to break the engine in correctly.

As noted these are slide only carbs with no accelerator pump, yet there should be no bog if everything is set up correctly. These bikes didn't bog from the factory when new and shouldn't now!
Common sense.....isn't so common!

1966 CL77 - 305cc - Gentleman's Scrambler
1967 CL175K0 - Scrambler #802 engine
1972 CB350F - Candy Bacchus Olive - Super Sport
1973 CB350F - Flake Matador Red - Super Sport
1975 CB400F - Parakeet Yellow - Super Sport
1976 CB400F - Varnish Blue - Super Sport
1976 GL1000 - Goldwing Standard
1978 CB550K - Super Sport
1981 GL1100 - Goldwing Standard
1982 CM450A - Hondamatic
1982 CB900C - Custom
1983 CX650E - Eurosport
1983 CB1000C - Custom X 2 Bikes now - both restored
1983 CB1100F - Super Sport - Pristine example
1984 GL1200 - Goldwing Standard

Offline dave500

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Re: Bogging when gassing hard
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2018, 01:59:45 PM »
they bog alright,yours mightn't but they bog.

Offline Keith

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Re: Bogging when gassing hard
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2018, 03:18:11 PM »
Agreed, not good for thd engine at all....why would one do that anyway?

Offline Yamahawk

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Re: Bogging when gassing hard
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2018, 04:03:57 PM »
they bog alright,yours mightn't but they bog.
Now we're talking! A good peat bog will hide the most interesting things... I bet you could ride a SOHC in there for sure!
Charlie
1971 CB750K1 (newest bike), 1996 Royal Enfield 500 Bullet (therapy bike), 1981 Yamaha XV920RH, 2006 Kawasaki Concours (retirement bike), 1975 Yamaha RD350 (race bike), 1989 Honda VTR250 Interceptor (race bike), 1986 Kawasaki EX250 Ninja (race bike in progress), 1985 Honda Elite CH250, 1973 Yamaha GT1 80cc, 1974 Yamaha DT360 project bike.

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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Bogging when gassing hard
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2018, 10:21:12 AM »
Mechanical slide carbs rely on differential pressure to push fuel through the fuel jets.  The differential is provided by the partial vacuum produced by the falling pistons making it's way to the carb throat, whereby the atmospheric pressure at the top of the vented float bowl exerts force on the fuel pushing through the jets and into the carb throat to be mixed with the air from the intake.

Raising the slide, allows outside atmospheric pressure to flood the carb throat, drasticly changing the differential pressure the carb relies on to operate, either stopping the fuel jet flow or severely reducing it.  Lots of air, and minimal fuel results in no power from the engine.  I.E. "bog".  I call it wheeze, as I use bog to pertain to an over rich condition with associated "burble" during operational recovery.  "Wheeze" recovery resumes operation cleanly.

It is unreasonable expect a mechanical slide carb to operate well from whacking the slides fully open suddenly.  The physics do not support its continued operation.  Unless...
The idle mixture is ridiculously over rich, likely fouling plugs during prolonged idle (and getting very poor fuel mileage).  Or, an accelerator pump is included to squirt raw fuel into the carb throat when the slide is suddenly opened.

All my 550's (same carb arrangement) exhibit this bogging/wheezing behavior (as they did when brand new).  All my 750's with their mechanical slide carbs have accelerator pumps (77-78).  They don't bog or wheeze whatever you do to the throttle.

CV carbs have a vacuum operated slide that prevents the operator from suddenly opening to both ends of the carb throat.  So, they generally don't need an accelerator pump.  The EPA likes these as they emit less unburned hydrocarbons into the exhaust.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline Coredozer19

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Re: Bogging when gassing hard
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2018, 04:51:21 PM »
I’m just running it through heat cycles and when sitting I get a little touchy on the gas. And I notice when I wack the throttle it bogs. I just wanted to make sure it’s not a big problem. Especially because I want it running perfect when I do get to ride it. I’d like to take a couple weeks of not having to work on it and actually enjoy it. I’ve done a full restoration and getting a little tired of working on it to be honest lol.
1973 Honda CB350F

Offline DaveBarbier

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Re: Bogging when gassing hard
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2018, 06:35:16 PM »
For a new motor it’s recommended to not let it idle. You need a load on the motor to seat the rings properly. And letting it idle isn’t good because you want good oil pressure.

Have a lot to go before it’s rideable? If I were you I’d not run it until it’s test ride time. Then give it the beans.