Author Topic: Terry's Kawasaki ZZR1100 "Bring it back to life" project. (Read 75294 times)

Terry in Australia · « **Reply #50 on:** May 07, 2018, 01:13:14 PM »

Ha ha, well it's easy to be a motorcycle magician Bobby, when they all come from the factory with smoke and mirrors, boom boom!

BobbyR · « **Reply #51 on:** May 07, 2018, 02:49:53 PM »

You are my hero.

Terry in Australia · « **Reply #52 on:** May 08, 2018, 02:55:26 AM »

Tuesday 8 May 2018:

So after work tonight, I decided to whip the pan off and take a look see inside that big black engine. The one good thing about this bike is, because it was taken off the road when it was only 8 years old, apart from a few minor blemishes (and whatever carnage lurks inside the donk) everything is in really nice condition. A little degreaser and it came up shiny!

ZZR1100 Engine Investigation by terry prendergast, on Flickr

There was plenty of crud in the pan, and more metal...........

ZZR1100 Engine Investigation 6 by terry prendergast, on Flickr

I took a look at the innards, and noticed something that looked out of place?

ZZR1100 Engine Investigation 2 by terry prendergast, on Flickr

So I took a closer look...........

ZZR1100 Engine Investigation 3 by terry prendergast, on Flickr

It looked slightly familiar?

ZZR1100 Engine Investigation 4 by terry prendergast, on Flickr

Fcuking piston skirt!

ZZR1100 Engine Investigation 5 by terry prendergast, on Flickr

Well, time to theorize, my guess is that with the conrod bearing shot, there was enough slop for the rod to move sideways enough to connect with the skirt. I'm hoping that the cylinder sleeve didn't cop any damage, I don't think so because the compression test was pretty uniform right across all four cylinders, so using the same logic, I'm guessing (hoping...) that there's no damage to the combustion chamber or the valves. More digging tomorrow.

ZZR1100 Engine Investigation 14 by terry prendergast, on Flickr

jaytee-nz · « **Reply #53 on:** May 08, 2018, 01:03:08 PM »

This is like a "whodunnit" story Terry - I'm on the edge of my chair mate !

Stev-o · « **Reply #54 on:** May 08, 2018, 03:21:55 PM »

Didnt take long to find your issue, Terry.

Sorry for your loss... [been there]

jgger · « **Reply #55 on:** May 08, 2018, 06:06:40 PM »

I had a Toyota that broke a skirt like that, no rod damage at all. It sure sounded like a bad rod but it was the piston wobbling in the bore. It was a bad piston, may have gotten the motor hot, IDK but the rod was fine. I hope that is the case with yours, mine didn't even scuff the bore.

Sooooo, if you are feeling lucky, punk. New pistons, hone, rings and ride baby ride!

Good luck!

spotty · « **Reply #56 on:** May 08, 2018, 08:01:38 PM »

on the other hand i had an XS650 that ate a bottom end roller bearing ( you know the ones, indestructible by all reports...) it destroyed the crank, bore, piston, valves, head and put a shunt in the rod about half way up so it still pointed straight up but the little end was about 5mm out of line with the centre of what was left of the bottom end

754 · « **Reply #57 on:** May 08, 2018, 08:12:09 PM »

Pull topend, before splitting cases, might only be piston.. you have to fix that anyway.

kpier883 · « **Reply #58 on:** May 08, 2018, 08:54:15 PM »

Is there a brazed line showing in the second picture down? It appears to be a repaired area or maybe a crimp? But that might just by some sort of anomaly in the way the picture is rendered.

Terry in Australia · « **Reply #59 on:** May 09, 2018, 02:11:46 AM »

Well thanks men, of all the theories so far I like jgger's the best, and without getting too far ahead of myself, he might be right, as you'll remember, I originally thought the noise was coming from somewhere higher in the engine, and last night when I shone my torch up at #3 conrod it looked like it was OK. (but I know that means nothing) I was able to (just) push it with my finger, and couldn't detect any movement? It sure would be nice if I just needed to replace one piston, replace the rings and hone the cylinders, and slot it back in to the frame.

KPier, good eyes mate, the pipe has been brazed to it's bracket. You're from Birmingham? Do you know JTB? He's a top bloke!

I didn't get a chance to do much tonight, we're supposed to get a month's worth of rain over the next two days, and as the patio tends to flood, I bought some plastic tubs with lids to put all the loose parts in, on my way home from work. Everything is stowed away, and I've got a heavy duty motorcycle cover over the engine, so hopefully I won't end up with an engine full of water.

ZZR1100 Wednesday 9 May 2018 by terry prendergast, on Flickr

ZZR1100 Wednesday 9 May 2018 1 by terry prendergast, on Flickr

Leo's just discovered cold weather for the first time in his life, and he's none too happy. He's decided that big fat blokes make for comfortable places to snooze on cool nights, and was a tad pissed when I kicked him off to go jump in the rain box. More to follow men, stay tuned.

Fat Leo by terry prendergast, on Flickr

Killer Canary · « **Reply #60 on:** May 09, 2018, 06:26:04 AM »

You'll have to adapt yourself to Leo's ways for his comfort.

jaytee-nz · « **Reply #61 on:** May 09, 2018, 01:42:09 PM »

That rain is headed our way Terry for the weekend (west coast of NZ's North Island) so thanks a bunch !

kpier883 · « **Reply #62 on:** May 09, 2018, 08:45:35 PM »

Terry,
I sure do know JTB and you are right indeed, John is a stand up guy! We rode together on several SOHC4 tours and have done some other rides together as well. I think i’ll give him a call and set up a ride.

Watching your progress with interest.

—Kirk

Terry in Australia · « **Reply #63 on:** May 10, 2018, 12:10:20 AM »

No worries Kirk, say G'Day to John for me! Well it's the coldest day of the year so far, as you guys are starting to enjoy the warmer weather in the US, Canada, Europe and Britain, it's getting cooler, so when I got home from work I bravely marched outside to start twirling spanners, and immediately came back inside again, man, it's freezing!

Anyway, I bought a used piston and rod for $29 USD, (plus $43 for shipping) yeah I know, I should buy a new Wiseco big bore kit and some hot cams and headwork, but if one used piston can restore the ZZR's original 147 BHP, well I guess I'll just have to settle for that. For the price of the above mentioned items, I could buy a used Blackbird, or maybe even a 'Busa, not that I need any more bikes.......... More soon.

MRieck · « **Reply #64 on:** May 10, 2018, 03:56:58 AM »

Quote from: kpier883 on May 08, 2018, 08:54:15 PM

Is there a brazed line showing in the second picture down? It appears to be a repaired area or maybe a crimp? But that might just by some sort of anomaly in the way the picture is rendered.

That's the oil feed line for #3 and that's the way they came from the factory. A piss poor arrangement IMO (and others who have blown #3 rod).

Terry in Australia · « **Reply #65 on:** May 11, 2018, 03:17:45 AM »

Yeah, it's funny, while the #3 rod issue is common, there are lots of ZZR1100's here with big miles, and no problems. Mine blew second gear at the 50,000 Km (30,000 miles) mark, and once again, gearbox issues were really only an issue if the bike had been ridden hard.

If my #3 rod bearing is OK (and I'm starting to think it might be) I'll just make sure all those oil pipes are clear before I reassemble it, use quality oil, and try to keep the front wheel on the ground, and it should be fine.

MoMo · « **Reply #66 on:** May 11, 2018, 04:31:01 AM »

Quote from: Terry in Australia on May 11, 2018, 03:17:45 AM

Yeah, it's funny, while the #3 rod issue is common, there are lots of ZZR1100's here with big miles, and no problems. Mine blew second gear at the 50,000 Km (30,000 miles) mark, and once again, gearbox issues were really only an issue if the bike had been ridden hard.

If my #3 rod bearing is OK (and I'm starting to think it might be) I'll just make sure all those oil pipes are clear before I reassemble it, use quality oil, and try to keep the front wheel on the ground, and it should be fine.

Will you start a separate thread for your choice of oil?

spotty · « **Reply #67 on:** May 11, 2018, 04:41:12 AM »

Something a little flasher than Kmarts finest perhaps.

BobbyR · « **Reply #68 on:** May 11, 2018, 11:51:15 AM »

Quote from: MoMo on May 11, 2018, 04:31:01 AM

Quote from: Terry in Australia on May 11, 2018, 03:17:45 AM
Yeah, it's funny, while the #3 rod issue is common, there are lots of ZZR1100's here with big miles, and no problems. Mine blew second gear at the 50,000 Km (30,000 miles) mark, and once again, gearbox issues were really only an issue if the bike had been ridden hard.

If my #3 rod bearing is OK (and I'm starting to think it might be) I'll just make sure all those oil pipes are clear before I reassemble it, use quality oil, and try to keep the front wheel on the ground, and it should be fine.

Don't start

Will you start a separate thread for your choice of oil?

Terry in Australia · « **Reply #69 on:** May 11, 2018, 05:21:06 PM »

Ha ha, well from the various forums that I've been perusing, a good quality synthetic oil is the way to go, so I'll run with that logic men, quality oil (even synthetic) is cheap insurance against future damage. It's mothers Day tomorrow, and I'm taking the wife and her mum out for lunch today, so today's a write off, but hopefully there'll be some sort of Mothers Day gathering tomorrow to occupy the wife, so I can get on with stripping the engine down. I just hope the crank is good, and all I need is a piston. (on it's way) We'll see!

Terry in Australia · « **Reply #70 on:** May 13, 2018, 03:02:58 AM »

Sunday 13 May 2018:

Happy Mothers Day, you mothers! Ha ha, well knowing what a nightmare it is booking a table in a restaurant anywhere on MD, I took my wife and her ma out for lunch yesterday, so today, when she went to visit her ma for a family MD get-together, I excused myself, and instead, whipped the head and cylinders off the big Kaw.

ZZR1100 engine strip 4 by terry prendergast, on Flickr

I haven't checked the torque values yet for the head, but I needed my big arsed breaker bar to crack the head/cylinder bolts. Once I realised that there was one 6mm screw that had to come out before the head came off, it was all good.

ZZR1100 engine strip 6 by terry prendergast, on Flickr

The good news is that there was no damage at all, to the cylinder head. No kissed valves, and no corresponding damage to the top of #3 piston. Sorry for the crappy pic, I didn't want to turn the head upside down for fearing of losing a valve shim.

ZZR1100 engine strip 7 by terry prendergast, on Flickr

So, once I found another two 6mm screws holding the cylinder block to the top case, the cylinder black came off nicely, to reveal, this..........

ZZR1100 engine strip 10 by terry prendergast, on Flickr

Of course, the pain doesn't stop there, the sleeve is fcuked too.

ZZR1100 engine strip 11 by terry prendergast, on Flickr

Sooo, I grabbed the piston, and was disappointed to see that there was a good 1mm of up and down play. Poop. As everyone knows, I'm a conspiracy theorist, and what I found interesting today, is that the only conrod that you can get to from underneath without splitting the cases on a ZZR1100 is the troublesome #3! Coincidence, or did Kawasaki design it like this?Hmmmnnnnn......... $:-\$

Anyhoo, the suspense was killing me, so I quickly reached in from underneath and undid the two conrod nuts, carelessly dropping one into the gearbox, damnit! I pulled the rod out from the top, and, well you better see for yourselves.

ZZR1100 engine strip 16 by terry prendergast, on Flickr

Apart from some light scratching caused by the "spun" bearing, the rod didn't look too bad?

ZZR1100 engine strip 15 by terry prendergast, on Flickr

Same/same for the crank journal, while there's some light scratching, it doesn't look too bad? There doesn't appear to be any loss of material or deep gouging, and while it's smooth to the touch it's not a super-silky-smooth "chrome-like" finish either.

ZZR1100 engine strip 14 by terry prendergast, on Flickr

I've seen a lot worse. One of the big end journals on the crank out of Mike's bike was burned black and was deeply scarred, but of course I didn't use his crank when I rebuilt his engine, and I've got another CB750 crank with the bearing surface on the last main bearing journal deeply scored too.

The question is, do I just replace the sleeve, piston, rod and bearing, plastiguage it, and if it's still within spec, call it good? Or do I pull the crank and take it to a specialist to refurb? Hmmnnn, I'm gonna have to think about this..........

ZZR1100 engine strip 17 by terry prendergast, on Flickr

MoMo · « **Reply #71 on:** May 13, 2018, 06:37:36 AM »

How bad is the cylinder scored? Looks like you may have to dump another 1000 into the Kaw

. My sympathies...Larry

MRieck · « **Reply #72 on:** May 13, 2018, 08:18:02 AM »

Looks familiar with the exception of the broken piston skirt. Rods came in 3 different weight if I remember correctly....You need the correct one. I am pretty sure the head bolts are one time torque to yield....they have to be replaced. Definitely on the rod bolts. Maybe the journal can be polished out but if the skirt broke the crank may be hammered. One of the easiest systems I have encountered for changing shims on those Kawasaki's.

ofreen · « **Reply #73 on:** May 13, 2018, 08:54:12 AM »

Mystery solved and nice sleuthing Mr. Detective, but too bad the news isn't better. Now it comes down to how much money do you want to spend, the way these things usually do.

754 · « **Reply #74 on:** May 13, 2018, 09:27:13 AM »

Jeepers, this is the expensive way to get a 43mm front end..
I just bought mine without the bike, way less money and hassle..

News:

Author Topic: Terry's Kawasaki ZZR1100 "Bring it back to life" project. (Read 75294 times)