Author Topic: Anybody know of a strong (like H13) 15mm X 56mm wrist pin???  (Read 5343 times)

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Offline MRieck

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Anybody know of a strong (like H13) 15mm X 56mm wrist pin???
« on: April 24, 2018, 02:16:28 PM »
They would be nice for the RC Triple. Currently I can only find standard Wiseco pieces. Pins are held in place with C clips.....no buttons.
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline Jim F

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Re: Anybody know of a strong (like H13) 15mm X 56mm wrist pin???
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2018, 03:36:52 PM »
Can Rick make these up mike or have a tool shop
Make them. What hardness are you looking for also.
Most inserts I deal with that are H13 are around 53/55 Rc
I might have a couple of shops that I can have these made
Still need to call you from the weekend
Talk soon
Jim
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Offline gschuld

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Re: Anybody know of a strong (like H13) 15mm X 56mm wrist pin???
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2018, 03:38:03 PM »
Not using the APE tool steel pins?

George

Offline MRieck

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Re: Anybody know of a strong (like H13) 15mm X 56mm wrist pin???
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2018, 03:53:03 PM »
Can Rick make these up mike or have a tool shop
Make them. What hardness are you looking for also.
Most inserts I deal with that are H13 are around 53/55 Rc
I might have a couple of shops that I can have these made
Still need to call you from the weekend
Talk soon
Jim
I was thinking about that Jim. The 3 pins that came with the motors are scary looking they have so much taper. They are light but geez. ;D
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Offline gschuld

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Re: Anybody know of a strong (like H13) 15mm X 56mm wrist pin???
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2018, 04:16:55 PM »
Mike,

I’m curious, what do they weigh?  Getting a 15x56m pin down to high 30s grams is pretty tapered, mid 30 should be severe I’m guessing.

George

Offline 754

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Re: Anybody know of a strong (like H13) 15mm X 56mm wrist pin???
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2018, 05:44:49 PM »
I am thinking Jay must have everything needed to make them..
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Offline kmb69

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Re: Anybody know of a strong (like H13) 15mm X 56mm wrist pin???
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2018, 06:12:55 PM »
I am thinking Jay must have everything needed to make them..

Pretty sure Jay doesn't make them. He farms them out if the demand quantity of a particular pin allows him to make a few bucks. Probably cheaper to have them made yourself.


Offline kmb69

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Re: Anybody know of a strong (like H13) 15mm X 56mm wrist pin???
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2018, 06:50:27 PM »
Pin maker BME offers Vasco-Max C300 for their top of the line pins. It may be a tweak better than H13.
At approximately 294,000 psi ultimate tensile, Miller says they're good for "one billion cycles at 125,000 psi. loading"!


Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Anybody know of a strong (like H13) 15mm X 56mm wrist pin???
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2018, 01:20:42 AM »
They would be nice for the RC Triple. Currently I can only find standard Wiseco pieces. Pins are held in place with C clips.....no buttons.

Are the cranks sorted now Mike. Are the pins the only hold up ?

I keep getting PMs from people wanting to know, I'm sure they must think I live in Russ's back yard. haha.

Sam.
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Offline MRieck

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Re: Anybody know of a strong (like H13) 15mm X 56mm wrist pin???
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2018, 04:22:45 AM »
They would be nice for the RC Triple. Currently I can only find standard Wiseco pieces. Pins are held in place with C clips.....no buttons.

Are the cranks sorted now Mike. Are the pins the only hold up ?

I keep getting PMs from people wanting to know, I'm sure they must think I live in Russ's back yard. haha.

Sam.
Waiting for #2 crank to be repaired. I don't know why people would be PM'ing you Sam....you couldn't physically be further from the project.
 People have to understand a couple of things. First the original engines were...to be euphemistic...in rough shape. Pounds of silicone sealer, very dodgy case backing plates etc etc etc. After tearing those down and working with that crap for an eternity I came to the conclusion better to start with 3 fresh engines. Then there's getting that together, tear downs, cleaning, modifying, developing a well engineered case back system etc etc etc. To be absolutely honest how the bike won the "Best Engineered" NHRA title is beyond me. I guess they didn't see Russ siliconing a red shop rag to the back of an engine and screwing the plates in to help slow down the prodigious oil leaks.
 Oh...and BTW....I work a full time job, own a home which means maintenance, and continue with porting etc.
  I am waiting for the #2 crank. The only thing I am doing now is checking rod bolt stretch and getting the wrist pins in order. I thought the pins were in the sealed up piston boxes but they weren't....3 random pins were on a plastic bag along with other top end parts. I have 1 Wiseco pin coming to make sure it fits. I am not going to order 12, find out they don't fit and be stuck with them. Everything else (part gathering, painting, measuring etc) is done and the engines are ready for assembly.
 This has been a long, tedious and, at times...very frustrating project secondary to me wanting to do a good job AND having to do 90% of the work myself. If it only involved 1 engine and the use of fresh parts it would have been a lot easier AND A LOT QUICKER that is for sure.
 So....if anybody PM's you Sam tell them to PM me. ;)

  Mike
 
 
 
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Re: Anybody know of a strong (like H13) 15mm X 56mm wrist pin???
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2018, 04:50:41 AM »
You tried cliff at mtc?


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Offline turboguzzi

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Re: Anybody know of a strong (like H13) 15mm X 56mm wrist pin???
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2018, 06:30:52 AM »
just a thought. GSXR1000, (cant remember the model ) have 15mm pins.... length was never an issue for me , I cut them to length with a grinder attachment to the lathe...

Offline gschuld

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Re: Anybody know of a strong (like H13) 15mm X 56mm wrist pin???
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2018, 06:58:39 AM »
just a thought. GSXR1000, (cant remember the model ) have 15mm pins.... length was never an issue for me , I cut them to length with a grinder attachment to the lathe...

These are the model years for the same spec 15mm pin.  Unsure of length.

http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4&item=371417546492&category=177976&pm=1&ds=0&t=1524503724000&ver=0

George
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 07:04:06 AM by gschuld »

Offline MRieck

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Re: Anybody know of a strong (like H13) 15mm X 56mm wrist pin???
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2018, 07:53:51 AM »
I found Wiseco pins that should work...wanted something a bit stronger/lighter. Thanks for all the input fellas.
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Offline Cb750 Racer

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Re: Anybody know of a strong (like H13) 15mm X 56mm wrist pin???
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2018, 12:42:14 PM »
Pin maker BME offers Vasco-Max C300 for their top of the line pins. It may be a tweak better than H13.
At approximately 294,000 psi ultimate tensile, Miller says they're good for "one billion cycles at 125,000 psi. loading"!

If someone does end up ordering a set of BME wrist pins count me in   :D

They would be nice for the RC Triple. Currently I can only find standard Wiseco pieces. Pins are held in place with C clips.....no buttons.

Are the cranks sorted now Mike. Are the pins the only hold up ?

I keep getting PMs from people wanting to know, I'm sure they must think I live in Russ's back yard. haha.

Sam.
Waiting for #2 crank to be repaired. I don't know why people would be PM'ing you Sam....you couldn't physically be further from the project.
 People have to understand a couple of things. First the original engines were...to be euphemistic...in rough shape. Pounds of silicone sealer, very dodgy case backing plates etc etc etc. After tearing those down and working with that crap for an eternity I came to the conclusion better to start with 3 fresh engines. Then there's getting that together, tear downs, cleaning, modifying, developing a well engineered case back system etc etc etc. To be absolutely honest how the bike won the "Best Engineered" NHRA title is beyond me. I guess they didn't see Russ siliconing a red shop rag to the back of an engine and screwing the plates in to help slow down the prodigious oil leaks.
 Oh...and BTW....I work a full time job, own a home which means maintenance, and continue with porting etc.
  I am waiting for the #2 crank. The only thing I am doing now is checking rod bolt stretch and getting the wrist pins in order. I thought the pins were in the sealed up piston boxes but they weren't....3 random pins were on a plastic bag along with other top end parts. I have 1 Wiseco pin coming to make sure it fits. I am not going to order 12, find out they don't fit and be stuck with them. Everything else (part gathering, painting, measuring etc) is done and the engines are ready for assembly.
 This has been a long, tedious and, at times...very frustrating project secondary to me wanting to do a good job AND having to do 90% of the work myself. If it only involved 1 engine and the use of fresh parts it would have been a lot easier AND A LOT QUICKER that is for sure.
 So....if anybody PM's you Sam tell them to PM me. ;)

  Mike
 

You need to get some pictures of the cases now Mike then I think people would appreciate all of the engineering that you single handedly put into the resurrection of these engines. He's had some beautiful block-off plates made with the proper screw type and screw placement rather than some sheet metal and tons of silicone to compensate . Mike is a busy dude working full time while restoring the engines for the triple and takes on projects from idiots like me during his down time waiting for parts. He's not getting rich off of any of this stuff either its a labor of love more than anything.Just know this bike is gonna be #$%*IN once the engines are finished up
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 12:44:29 PM by Cb750 Racer »
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Anybody know of a strong (like H13) 15mm X 56mm wrist pin???
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2018, 08:32:57 AM »
Pin maker BME offers Vasco-Max C300 for their top of the line pins. It may be a tweak better than H13.
At approximately 294,000 psi ultimate tensile, Miller says they're good for "one billion cycles at 125,000 psi. loading"!

If someone does end up ordering a set of BME wrist pins count me in   :D

They would be nice for the RC Triple. Currently I can only find standard Wiseco pieces. Pins are held in place with C clips.....no buttons.

Are the cranks sorted now Mike. Are the pins the only hold up ?

I keep getting PMs from people wanting to know, I'm sure they must think I live in Russ's back yard. haha.

Sam.
Waiting for #2 crank to be repaired. I don't know why people would be PM'ing you Sam....you couldn't physically be further from the project.
 People have to understand a couple of things. First the original engines were...to be euphemistic...in rough shape. Pounds of silicone sealer, very dodgy case backing plates etc etc etc. After tearing those down and working with that crap for an eternity I came to the conclusion better to start with 3 fresh engines. Then there's getting that together, tear downs, cleaning, modifying, developing a well engineered case back system etc etc etc. To be absolutely honest how the bike won the "Best Engineered" NHRA title is beyond me. I guess they didn't see Russ siliconing a red shop rag to the back of an engine and screwing the plates in to help slow down the prodigious oil leaks.
 Oh...and BTW....I work a full time job, own a home which means maintenance, and continue with porting etc.
  I am waiting for the #2 crank. The only thing I am doing now is checking rod bolt stretch and getting the wrist pins in order. I thought the pins were in the sealed up piston boxes but they weren't....3 random pins were on a plastic bag along with other top end parts. I have 1 Wiseco pin coming to make sure it fits. I am not going to order 12, find out they don't fit and be stuck with them. Everything else (part gathering, painting, measuring etc) is done and the engines are ready for assembly.
 This has been a long, tedious and, at times...very frustrating project secondary to me wanting to do a good job AND having to do 90% of the work myself. If it only involved 1 engine and the use of fresh parts it would have been a lot easier AND A LOT QUICKER that is for sure.
 So....if anybody PM's you Sam tell them to PM me. ;)

  Mike
 

You need to get some pictures of the cases now Mike then I think people would appreciate all of the engineering that you single handedly put into the resurrection of these engines. He's had some beautiful block-off plates made with the proper screw type and screw placement rather than some sheet metal and tons of silicone to compensate . Mike is a busy dude working full time while restoring the engines for the triple and takes on projects from idiots like me during his down time waiting for parts. He's not getting rich off of any of this stuff either its a labor of love more than anything.Just know this bike is gonna be #$%*IN once the engines are finished up

Cb750 Racer, you don't need to remind me what Mike has to work with or how busy he is, Mike and myself have lived together
both sides of the Atlantic, spent time racing  and socializing together over many months.

Mike, I didn't think for one minute that you were dragging your feet. I know you can't do it all on your own and have to rely on
trusted out workers to do some of the jobs.
What I was meaning in my post, is it the out workers that are holding progress up, are they just mad busy and you don't want to trust the work to others ?

And Mike, people are asking me for up dates because as you know, It was me that started the RC supporters club here on the forum which raised quite a few thousand $ to get the projects started, what perhaps you don't know is, that I started a page on the social media network Facebook which has quite a large following. This is where most of the questions for up dates are coming from.
As Sue and myself are friends on Facebook, I can invite her to join the RC Legacy Motorsports page and you can view it yourself by using Sue's log in if you wish but that's only with your blessing. Please let Sue know if you would like me to do it then she can be on the look out for it.

Regards Sam.
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Offline dragracer

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Re: Anybody know of a strong (like H13) 15mm X 56mm wrist pin???
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2018, 10:01:15 AM »
I found Wiseco pins that should work...wanted something a bit stronger/lighter. Thanks for all the input fellas.

Mike,

Can you tell us the Wiseco part # for the pins you found and will use? I need to source a set for the nitrous engine I'm building. A member was gracious enough to hook me up with the APE pins but I wanted to see if there was another/lighter option.

Offline gschuld

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Re: Anybody know of a strong (like H13) 15mm X 56mm wrist pin???
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2018, 10:12:48 AM »
I found Wiseco pins that should work...wanted something a bit stronger/lighter. Thanks for all the input fellas.

Mike,

Can you tell us the Wiseco part # for the pins you found and will use? I need to source a set for the nitrous engine I'm building. A member was gracious enough to hook me up with the APE pins but I wanted to see if there was another/lighter option.

Frankie,

I believe the only 15mm x 2.20” pins Wiseco sells are the #s522.

By memory, I recall the APE tool steel pins being 47 grams each and the Wiseco pins around 43 grams

I can check when I get home.  I have both on hand.  Getting down into the 30s with a 2.20” pin has been done but  would require tapering the wall on a lathe at both ends unless someone had a supply of tapered pins.

George

Offline gschuld

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Re: Anybody know of a strong (like H13) 15mm X 56mm wrist pin???
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2018, 08:24:50 PM »
APE tool steel pin.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 08:26:35 PM by gschuld »

Offline gschuld

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Re: Anybody know of a strong (like H13) 15mm X 56mm wrist pin???
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2018, 08:27:22 PM »
Wiseco #s522

Offline gschuld

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Re: Anybody know of a strong (like H13) 15mm X 56mm wrist pin???
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2018, 08:31:06 PM »
Assorted vintage pins (same 15mmx2.20”)

Heaviest with MTC pistons
Next down with Arias RC pistons
Lightest with Arias SS270 pistons(early 80s)

George

Offline dragracer

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Re: Anybody know of a strong (like H13) 15mm X 56mm wrist pin???
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2018, 09:16:49 PM »
MTC threw a set of wrist pins in the box with the NOS 72mm pistons I just bought. Those things must have been cut out of a stick of thin wall tubing. I wouldn't use them in a lawnmower engine

Offline scottly

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Re: Anybody know of a strong (like H13) 15mm X 56mm wrist pin???
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2018, 09:57:34 PM »
Mike, are ultra strong pins really required? Is the Triple going to be fed a diet with lots of nitro?
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Offline MRieck

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Re: Anybody know of a strong (like H13) 15mm X 56mm wrist pin???
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2018, 04:41:11 AM »
Mike, are ultra strong pins really required? Is the Triple going to be fed a diet with lots of nitro?
I got the S522 pin yesterday and I will be going in that direction. I figure each engine won't be more than 200HP if that. I was thinking about weight as it would be great to get a pin a bit under 40 grams.
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Offline gschuld

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Re: Anybody know of a strong (like H13) 15mm X 56mm wrist pin???
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2018, 05:39:40 AM »
Mike,

Remember according to my gram scale, the s522 pins are 44.9 grams, with the APE tool steel pins being 46.6 grams.

I’m think that you are going to spend a considerable amount of time in front of a lathe tapering both ends of 12 pins to get 5+ grams out of each one to get under 40 grams😏
« Last Edit: April 27, 2018, 06:51:00 AM by gschuld »