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Author Topic: High Performance CAMSHAFT Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)  (Read 4680 times)

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Offline jus4selling

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #75 on: September 17, 2018, 10:47:24 pm »
Looking forward to the feedback from those of you installing these.

Offline MessnerMoto

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #76 on: September 18, 2018, 03:32:18 am »
Hi Mirko...I got mine in the mail today!  Thanks much.   Unfortunately I wont be much help as I don't have a reason to take the engine down yet.  But when I do it'll be going in.

Sorry for stupid question...but this uses the stock tension adjuster yes?

Cheers, Joe

yep u need to use stock or u can use that aftermarket manual.

...What I found also is that spring in adjuster is sometimes weaken by age. What I always do is I apply more force to adjuster with small rod/screwdriver from behind the adjuster... But I don't over force it! Thats important because to much force will over-tighten the chain.

Hopefully somebody will soon start using one :)
I'm waiting for the proper riveting tool.....won't be available until 9/20

U can buy those chains in already riveted state. But shops around the internet does not now the difference.

Looking forward to your tests ;)

Offline PeWe

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #77 on: September 18, 2018, 09:04:26 am »
About cam chains. Earlier thread were old good Tsubaki Camellia, Yamiya(DID 219FTS) and DID 219FTH (open chain) are discussed.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,161838.msg1861067.html#msg1861067
CB750 K6-76 1005cc JMR Billet block.
CB750 K2-75 stock looking project started 2017

Offline wannabridin

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #78 on: September 21, 2018, 06:58:52 am »
Messner, love the work as always and am very tempted to buy some of your goodies! 

Will any of CycleX's cam chains work?  Ken offers some nice hardware, wondering if it would work: http://www.cyclexchange.net/Engine%20Chains%20Page.htm
1976 CB750K, currently under construction:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=64468.0

-And if you don't do it this year, you'll be one year older when you do...

Offline MessnerMoto

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #79 on: September 21, 2018, 12:18:06 pm »
Messner, love the work as always and am very tempted to buy some of your goodies! 

Will any of CycleX's cam chains work?  Ken offers some nice hardware, wondering if it would work: http://www.cyclexchange.net/Engine%20Chains%20Page.htm

thanks!

cyclex chain will not work because it has 94 links. You need HD chain with 96 links.

the good thing is that HD chain with 96 links costs around 30$ (also HD chain with 94 links costs 25$ if you buy it directly from ebay)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CATENA-DI-DISTRIBUZIONE-DID-219FTH-96M-HUSQVARNA-350-TE-1990-1998/351761127274?epid=1658174043&hash=item51e698d76a%3Ag%3A8GcAAOSwzgRWua%7Ep&_sop=15&_sacat=0&_nkw=did+219+fth+96&_from=R40&rt=nc

or search it locally.... DID 219fth 96 links so you dont pay for shipping....

« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 01:41:00 pm by MessnerMoto »

Offline MRieck

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #80 on: September 21, 2018, 03:54:35 pm »

U can buy those chains in already riveted state. But shops around the internet does not now the difference.
Where can you get the endless 96 link chain Mirko?? I couldn't find any.
Mike
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline MessnerMoto

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #81 on: September 22, 2018, 07:25:40 am »
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DID-TIMING-CHAIN-ENDLESS-219fth-096-LE-/202238030419?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10#shpCntId&shqty=1#shId

Already riveted chain should have LE in its name. But I am not sure 100%.I asked the seller to check will get back

... did not now that it is such a problem to rivet a chain. The guy who did it for me used really simple hand made tool and a hammer. Basically it was a bolt with small hole... He punched the pins lightly two times and that was that....


Offline MRieck

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #82 on: September 22, 2018, 07:44:02 am »
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DID-TIMING-CHAIN-ENDLESS-219fth-096-LE-/202238030419?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10#shpCntId&shqty=1#shId

Already riveted chain should have LE in its name. But I am not sure 100%.I asked the seller to check will get back

... did not now that it is such a problem to rivet a chain. The guy who did it for me used really simple hand made tool and a hammer. Basically it was a bolt with small hole... He punched the pins lightly two times and that was that....
I have a factory KTM tool on its way to me right now. Some KTM's require an open cam chain. Tool looks to do a great job but it isn't cheap.
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"


Offline MRieck

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #84 on: September 22, 2018, 01:24:25 pm »
Well....I received the KTM cam chain tool today. It is really nice. There is a 2 face sliding block.....1 face sets the side plate to the proper depth while the other face puts a factory peen on the pins. Mint.
I'll get some pics tomorrow
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline MRieck

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #85 on: September 22, 2018, 04:28:39 pm »
Just riveted 2 chains. Didn't like the first one....my fault. Learning curve was steep and the second one is perfect. Great tool. Will redo the first one....master links are cheap.
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline andy750

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #86 on: September 23, 2018, 06:09:18 pm »
Here is Mikes KTM tool







The rivet is like factory rivets





Current bikes
1. CB750K4: Long distance bike, 17 countries and counting...2001 - Trans-USA-Mexico (CB750K4), 2003 - European Tour (CB750K4), 2004 - SOHC Easy Rider Trip (CB750K4), 2008 - Adirondack Tour 2-up (CB750K4) , 2013 - Tail of the Dragon Tour , 2017: 836 kit install and bottom end rebuild. And rebirth: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,173213.msg2029836.html#msg2029836
2. CB750/810cc K2  - road racer with JMR worked head 71 hp
3. VStrom DL1000 2003
4. XLR650L 2006

Where did you go on your bike today? - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=45183.2350

Offline MRieck

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #87 on: September 23, 2018, 06:45:38 pm »
Thanks Andy. ;)
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline MessnerMoto

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #88 on: September 24, 2018, 06:28:23 am »
Nice tool and nice chain;)

but riveting tool for 10$ would also work. There are some even for 5$....

Offline MRieck

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #89 on: September 30, 2018, 05:00:19 pm »
Just some info. I got ome cam chain links from nimbus9020 on ebay. They are for DID. I got 3 hard nose and 1 soft, hollow point nose. The soft nose is an 219 FTS. The hard are 218 FTH. I think the H mean hard and the S means soft....keep in mind I am just guessing. They look exactly alike. I think the soft, hollow nose would be better suited for most guys (easier to expand with normal tools).
 The ebay fella is very good based on my experience.
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline MessnerMoto

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Re: High Performance Cam Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #90 on: October 01, 2018, 01:53:29 am »
Mike

DID 219FTH and DID 219FTS are two different chains.

They are similar but there are some differences in properties.

FTS chain is little bit weaker but main difference is PIN diameter.... it is only for 0.01mm but there is a difference.

I would not mix fth chain with fts link ? Maybe I am wrong?

But I think FTS chain is also appropriate to be used and maybe there is 96 links already riveted version...


« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 02:35:15 am by MessnerMoto »

Offline MRieck

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Re: High Performance CAMSHAFT Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #91 on: December 16, 2018, 09:53:45 am »
Where are there installation instructions....trying to install one now.
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline MessnerMoto

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Re: High Performance CAMSHAFT Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #92 on: December 16, 2018, 10:57:35 am »
Where are there installation instructions....trying to install one now.

Hi Mick,

I can write one but basically it is a copy past of OEM tensioner installation. It goes completely the same. I can assist you over the phone, skype etc. Just PM me your contact and when to call you.


Offline MRieck

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Re: High Performance CAMSHAFT Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #93 on: December 26, 2018, 05:18:39 pm »
Where are there installation instructions....trying to install one now.

Hi Mick,

I can write one but basically it is a copy past of OEM tensioner installation. It goes completely the same. I can assist you over the phone, skype etc. Just PM me your contact and when to call you.
Had problems fitting the tensioner with my billet block...trying to sort it out
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline MessnerMoto

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Re: High Performance CAMSHAFT Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #94 on: December 27, 2018, 04:14:20 am »
Where are there installation instructions....trying to install one now.

Hi Mick,

I can write one but basically it is a copy past of OEM tensioner installation. It goes completely the same. I can assist you over the phone, skype etc. Just PM me your contact and when to call you.
Had problems fitting the tensioner with my billet block...trying to sort it out

Sorry to here that. Probably there is a difference between OEM cylinders chain tunnel? I did all according to OEM cylinders and test fitted only with several OEM cylinders.

Do you have any technical drawings of your tunnel maybe I can adjust design for next batch and help you with current one. Or send me some pictures


Offline Cb750 Racer

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Re: High Performance CAMSHAFT Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #95 on: December 27, 2018, 11:40:48 am »
Where are there installation instructions....trying to install one now.

Hi Mick,

I can write one but basically it is a copy past of OEM tensioner installation. It goes completely the same. I can assist you over the phone, skype etc. Just PM me your contact and when to call you.
Had problems fitting the tensioner with my billet block...trying to sort it out

Sorry to here that. Probably there is a difference between OEM cylinders chain tunnel? I did all according to OEM cylinders and test fitted only with several OEM cylinders.

Do you have any technical drawings of your tunnel maybe I can adjust design for next batch and help you with current one. Or send me some pictures

The billet block has identical dimensions for the cam tunnel. The problem we were having was when the two lower pins were in the tensioner there was no way to get the top pin in. The posititon where we could get the pin in made it impossible to slide it over into the correct slot where the pin should sit. Also when we put the two 1 piece pins in and left the 3 piece pin out there was no way to get the 3 piece pin in later because the O.D of the sleeves were too big to get the pin through the roller. I don't think it would be possible to get the 3 piece pin in later with any other setup besides stock sleeves or at least stock sleeve OD. We also had the base gasket rubber banded the the block so we wouldn't make a mess of the copper gasket spray. My theory was that the 0.040 base gasket made the block too tall to get that top pin in but honestly it seemed more far off than that extra 0.040 would give.Also doesn't that 3 piece pin sit under the base gasket?

Hopefully my explanation of the problem was clear enough and please do feel free to chime in. The bottom end is already sealed up with the 96 link DID 219 FTH so I'd really like to make this tensioner work.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 11:43:44 am by Cb750 Racer »
1972 Honda CB750 AAMRR Racer
1972 Suzuki GT750 Project
1975 Honda CB400f
1981 Kawasaki KZ750 LTD
1984 Kawasaki GPZ550 =>610cc
1996 Honda CR500

Offline MessnerMoto

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Re: High Performance CAMSHAFT Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #96 on: December 27, 2018, 02:18:38 pm »
I think you should make base gasket clear 3 piece pin. If I understand what is the problem u are having? Please send me some picures if I didn’t understand the problem you are having

Offline Cb750 Racer

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Re: High Performance CAMSHAFT Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #97 on: January 02, 2019, 12:45:09 pm »
I think you should make base gasket clear 3 piece pin. If I understand what is the problem u are having? Please send me some picures if I didn’t understand the problem you are having

Sorry if my explanation wasn't the clearest. We tried installing the tensioner several different ways i'll explain the problems we ran into with each way. We ruled out cutting away part of the gasket to clear the 3 piece pin because the gasket is the only thing holding that 3 piece pin in place and even if we removed just enough to get the metal section to clear the gasket we would really sacrifice stability in that part.

Scenario 1: Putting the 3 piece pin in first. When doing this you can't raise the cradle side of the tensioner high enough to get the top pin in because the 3 piece pin hits the bottom of the block first.

Scenario 2: We tried putting the top pin in first but after doing so we realized there was no way to get that 3 piece pin in afterwards because the large OD of the sleeves mad less room between cylinders 2 and 3 making it impossible to slide the 3 piece pin afterwards.

The distance between cylinders 2 and 3 on a stock setup is 2.796 inches where as with the billet block the area is only 2.442 inches



We contemplated removing material near where the top pin sits in the block, just enough to get to slide the pin into place but we'd still have to really tweak that base gasket to get that bottom pin in as the 3 piece pin would still be holding the gasket against the block. The only way for this tensioner to work with something with a larger sleeve OD over stock would be be to make the top hole in the tensioner a slot that allows some up and down play.
You may be able to still use this tensioner without modifications if some type of custom 5 piece tongue and groove pin could be machined to replace to stock 3 piece pin. But this would certainly take some thought engineering and thought
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 01:39:47 pm by Cb750 Racer »
1972 Honda CB750 AAMRR Racer
1972 Suzuki GT750 Project
1975 Honda CB400f
1981 Kawasaki KZ750 LTD
1984 Kawasaki GPZ550 =>610cc
1996 Honda CR500

Offline MessnerMoto

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Re: High Performance CAMSHAFT Chain tensioner for CB750(MessnerMoto)
« Reply #98 on: January 02, 2019, 04:29:49 pm »
will shortening the roller pin for 2mm per side help?

By my calculations this would be enough to slide the pin in and there is plenty of contact with lower case and roller pin left. But you would need to confirm this.

Yes the other thing is also removing some materials from cylinder to help slide in the top pin. Maybe it would demand just filleting the entrance of the hole for top pin

The other solution that comes to my mind is to unrivet the chain and rivet it after tensioner instalation.

 

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