Author Topic: New regulator/rectifier not charging (Read 9371 times)

rupaulpierce · « **on:** May 20, 2018, 10:19:25 AM »

Stock one was putting out 15v+ at speed. Put in this combo unit, identical to the one sold by 4into1.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B077BRBTDB/ref=mp_s_a_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1526835798&sr=8-1-fkmr1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=regulator+rectifier+12v+cb400f

Now not topping 13v at speed... cleaned connections, examined everything. Defective unit?

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rupaulpierce · « **Reply #1 on:** May 20, 2018, 11:14:23 AM »

More details:

This bike has 8 wires:

Rectifier plug:
-Yellow #1
-Yellow #2
-Yellow #3
-Green
-Red

The yellow wires are all putting out around 10v AC when bike is running. They all have less than 1 ohm resistance. No shorts to ground. 13v across battery regardless of RPM, no change or fluctuation.

Regulator:
-White - 0 DC volts key off, 1.4 mV key on.
-Green - 1ohm resistance.
-Black - 0 DC volts key off, 12.6 volts key on.

calj737 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 20, 2018, 12:52:08 PM »

Simple to follow. Always accurate:
http://www.electrosport.com/media/pdf/fault-finding-diagram.pdf

rotortiller · « **Reply #3 on:** May 20, 2018, 03:41:35 PM »

Quote

Simple to follow. Always accurate:

Field coils for example on various bikes do not fall within the range in that general document so it is not always accurate. Best to use the applicable manual for resistance values before failing any OEM component.

rupaulpierce · « **Reply #4 on:** May 20, 2018, 04:43:43 PM »

It seemed to be "working" before I put in the combo rectifier regulator. Is there something i'm overlooking about the wiring of the new unit?

Using this guide, one thing that seems off is constant voltage from the white wire to the regulator. It's not getting battery voltage with the key on or off.

http://motorcyclemd.com/how-to-fully-troubleshoot-your-motorcycles-charging-system/

calj737 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 20, 2018, 05:13:39 PM »

How did you connect the wires from the new unit to your stock bike? Start there. Asking “what’s wrong” with details of what you’ve done doesn’t provide much guidance.

The loose WHITE, BLACK and GREEN are the Regulator side of the unit. They provide the power to the field coil (White), the Ground for the Regulator (Green) and the battery status (Black). White should have no power to it without the key ON.

Every time I use those type of units, I swap the loose White with the RED in the plug, and then run RED to the battery POS directly. That way the WHITE from the stator harness matches color-color to the Reg/Rec.

rupaulpierce · « **Reply #6 on:** May 20, 2018, 06:45:47 PM »

Quote from: calj737 on May 20, 2018, 05:13:39 PM

How did you connect the wires from the new unit to your stock bike? Start there. Asking “what’s wrong” with details of what you’ve done doesn’t provide much guidance.

The loose WHITE, BLACK and GREEN are the Regulator side of the unit. They provide the power to the field coil (White), the Ground for the Regulator (Green) and the battery status (Black). White should have no power to it without the key ON.

Every time I use those type of units, I swap the loose White with the RED in the plug, and then run RED to the battery POS directly. That way the WHITE from the stator harness matches color-color to the Reg/Rec.

The new unit matched the wiring of stock harness. It has three male spades for the regulator that match the female connectors from the stock harness.

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scottly · « **Reply #7 on:** May 20, 2018, 08:47:38 PM »

Quote from: rupaulpierce on May 20, 2018, 11:14:23 AM

Regulator:
-White - 0 DC volts key off, 1.4 mV key on.

The white should be much higher than 1.4 millivolts.

rupaulpierce · « **Reply #8 on:** May 21, 2018, 04:56:04 AM »

Quote from: scottly on May 20, 2018, 08:47:38 PM

Quote from: rupaulpierce on May 20, 2018, 11:14:23 AM

Regulator:
-White - 0 DC volts key off, 1.4 mV key on.

The white should be much higher than 1.4 millivolts.

White is positive from field coil and should read battery voltage?

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rupaulpierce · « **Reply #9 on:** May 21, 2018, 07:41:28 AM »

Quote from: rupaulpierce on May 21, 2018, 04:56:04 AM

Quote from: scottly on May 20, 2018, 08:47:38 PM
Quote from: rupaulpierce on May 20, 2018, 11:14:23 AM

Regulator:
-White - 0 DC volts key off, 1.4 mV key on.

The white should be much higher than 1.4 millivolts.

White is positive from field coil and should read battery voltage?

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Apologies, a little confused. Does the white wire send power from the regulator TO the alternator? The wiring diagram suggests that the white wire only travels between these two points.

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scottly · « **Reply #10 on:** May 21, 2018, 07:47:09 PM »

The white wire supplies power from the regulator to the field coil, which is grounded on the other end. With a stock regulator, with the key on and the motor not running, you will see very nearly the same voltage on the white wire and the black wire. A solid state regulator will have some voltage drop, so with 12.6 volts on the black wire, it may read 12.0 volts, or maybe even a little lower, but certainly not down into the Milli-volt range.

rupaulpierce · « **Reply #11 on:** May 21, 2018, 07:50:24 PM »

Quote from: scottly on May 21, 2018, 07:47:09 PM

The white wire supplies power from the regulator to the field coil, which is grounded on the other end. With a stock regulator, with the key on and the motor not running, you will see very nearly the same voltage on the white wire and the black wire. A solid state regulator will have some voltage drop, so with 12.6 volts on the black wire, it may read 12.0 volts, or maybe even a little lower, but certainly not down into the Milli-volt range.

So should I be testing white downstream from the regulator at the alternator plug?

I took the mV reading on the harness with the reg disconnected, along with the green and black.

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scottly · « **Reply #12 on:** May 21, 2018, 08:26:29 PM »

No, measure the voltage at the junction of the white regulator wire and the white harness wire, with All wires connected.

rupaulpierce · « **Reply #13 on:** May 21, 2018, 08:31:34 PM »

Quote from: scottly on May 21, 2018, 08:26:29 PM

No, measure the voltage at the junction of the white regulator wire and the white harness wire, with All wires connected.

I’ll re-test in the morning, thanks scottly.

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Airborne 82nd · « **Reply #14 on:** May 22, 2018, 01:33:28 AM »

Quote from: rupaulpierce on May 20, 2018, 04:43:43 PM

It seemed to be "working" before I put in the combo rectifier regulator. Is there something i'm overlooking about the wiring of the new unit?

Using this guide, one thing that seems off is constant voltage from the white wire to the regulator. It's not getting battery voltage with the key on or off.

http://motorcyclemd.com/how-to-fully-troubleshoot-your-motorcycles-charging-system/

Then why did you change them?

rupaulpierce · « **Reply #15 on:** May 22, 2018, 02:27:31 AM »

Quote from: Airborne 82nd on May 22, 2018, 01:33:28 AM

Quote from: rupaulpierce on May 20, 2018, 04:43:43 PM
It seemed to be "working" before I put in the combo rectifier regulator. Is there something i'm overlooking about the wiring of the new unit?

Using this guide, one thing that seems off is constant voltage from the white wire to the regulator. It's not getting battery voltage with the key on or off.

http://motorcyclemd.com/how-to-fully-troubleshoot-your-motorcycles-charging-system/
Then why did you change them?

Too much voltage for lithium battery.

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rupaulpierce · « **Reply #16 on:** May 22, 2018, 05:23:01 AM »

Quote from: scottly on May 21, 2018, 08:26:29 PM

No, measure the voltage at the junction of the white regulator wire and the white harness wire, with All wires connected.

With everything connected, getting 12.5V on both the black and white wires.

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rupaulpierce · « **Reply #17 on:** May 22, 2018, 05:04:14 PM »

Could the regulator just be regulating the voltage to 13V?

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scottly · « **Reply #18 on:** May 22, 2018, 05:50:01 PM »

Possibly, or the battery may be discharged and it may take some time to recharge. Is the voltage steady at 13V, or does it slowly creep up?

rotortiller · « **Reply #19 on:** May 23, 2018, 04:39:48 AM »

Why not put the original components back in and adjust the regulator down to 14 volts? It works good and lasts a long time.

rupaulpierce · « **Reply #20 on:** May 23, 2018, 05:25:09 AM »

Quote from: scottly on May 22, 2018, 05:50:01 PM

Possibly, or the battery may be discharged and it may take some time to recharge. Is the voltage steady at 13V, or does it slowly creep up?

Battery was fully charged on a fancy charger with a testing program. Voltage seems to slowly creep down.

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rupaulpierce · « **Reply #21 on:** May 23, 2018, 05:26:28 AM »

Quote from: rotortiller on May 23, 2018, 04:39:48 AM

Why not put the original components back in and adjust the regulator down to 14 volts? It works good and lasts a long time.

Didn’t know the stock reg was adjustable!

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TwoTired · « **Reply #22 on:** May 23, 2018, 08:52:57 AM »

Quote from: rupaulpierce on May 23, 2018, 05:26:28 AM

Quote from: rotortiller on May 23, 2018, 04:39:48 AM
Why not put the original components back in and adjust the regulator down to 14 volts? It works good and lasts a long time.

Didn’t know the stock reg was adjustable!

You do have the shop manual, no?

The stock regulator is adjustable. Adjust it while battery is at full charge, when the alternator is spinning fast to make as much power possible, so that the regulator can have full control of alternator output. You do need to verify that the regulator "sees" acurate battery voltage both when all lighting is off as well as on.

The stock lead acid battery has very low impedance due to large plate area. It absorbs the transient spikes that the stock regulator provides while switching the alternator power on and off to maintain an average battery voltage status. It is unaffected by the spike transients. This leaves two concerns for a lithium battery substitution. 1), does the Li battery have the proper impedance to quash the spikes? And 2), does it have the durability to withstand these spikes for maximum life?

My lab is not yet set up to test such things, I'm afraid. Getting close though.

Cheers,

rupaulpierce · « **Reply #23 on:** May 25, 2018, 06:17:05 AM »

I thought these spikes were one reason manufactures recommend that you use a modern reg/rec unit with the lithium batt.

Just swapped the lithium batt for an AGM... same result. This one is actually reading sub 12V across the battery terminals when running, assuming due to a lower charge voltage.

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TwoTired · « **Reply #24 on:** May 25, 2018, 07:26:53 AM »

Is your agm battery fully charged?
An under charged battery will hold the voltage down until charged.

Does the black wire voltage at the regulator terminals match the voltage at the battery terminal?

Must veryify that the sense pathways don't lose voltage. Both positive and negative paths.

Is your rectifier fully functional?

How confident are you that you voltmeter is accurate?

Cheers,

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Author Topic: New regulator/rectifier not charging (Read 9371 times)