Topic: 350f points arc

[Greencb350f]

This don't look right to me... New points, condenser, coils, wires. Never really looked before at the points wile running so I never noticed this arcing, but I doubt it is supposed to be doing that. So what's the cause? Thanks for the help.

[Deltarider]

This don't look right to me... New points, condenser, coils, wires. Never really looked before at the points wile running so I never noticed this arcing, but I doubt it is supposed to be doing that. So what's the cause? Thanks for the help.

In general: check if 2.3 breakerpointgap is still correct and see to it that the forked connector at the back of the breakerpoints or any other part isn't accidently touching the plate. Then, with engine running, see if there's excessive arcing between the 2.3 breakerpoints. A tiny bit of sparking is normal, excessive sparking is not good. See

In this vid left condensor (1+4) is bad, right condensor (2+3) is good.
In your case, when there's no arcing between the points, you could also check if the insulators rings (including the tiny ring inside in the middle) are well fitted and insulating the little bolt.
That said, an occasional arcing near idling is not abnormal.

[Trevor from Warragul]

Fit a Hondaman ignition & it will disappear.

[Bodi]

The condensors are there just to reduce arcing at the contacts, and original or "new" NOS ones may well be dried out and not effective. You can measure capacitance with some multimeters and that's worthwhile if you have such a meter. The typical points capacitor is rated .22 microfarad and 450 volts. I'm not sure what Honda uses but the value should be printed on the part, and the actual reading should be withing 10% or so of the rated value. If you're looking for a new set they must be non-polarized, like a motor start capacitor, but finding one that small isn't so easy.
Use really doesn't affect these components, it's time that takes a toll.
The capacitor works along with the coil so a replacement coil may have different characteristics and not play so well with the stock capacitor? And a lower impedance coil - like the 3 Ohm Dyna ones - will cause more arcing mostly because the coil current is higher.

[gtmdriver]

Were the new coils the correct resistance?

They should be 4 ohm but some replacements (including those from DS) are lower. The DS ones I received were only 2 ohm.

That means that the points are switching currents of 6 amps rather than 3 amps so there is bound to be a lot of arcing even with new condensers.

[Greencb350f]

Fit a Hondaman ignition & it will disappear.

What is a hondaman ignition?

[Greencb350f]

This don't look right to me... New points, condenser, coils, wires. Never really looked before at the points wile running so I never noticed this arcing, but I doubt it is supposed to be doing that. So what's the cause? Thanks for the help.

In general: check if 2.3 breakerpointgap is still correct and see to it that the forked connector at the back of the breakerpoints or any other part isn't accidently touching the plate. Then, with engine running, see if there's excessive arcing between the 2.3 breakerpoints. A tiny bit of sparking is normal, excessive sparking is not good. See

In this vid left condensor (1+4) is bad, right condensor (2+3) is good.
In your case, when there's no arcing between the points, you could also check if the insulators rings (including the tiny ring inside in the middle) are well fitted and insulating the little bolt.
That said, an occasional arcing near idling is not abnormal.

Were the new coils the correct resistance?

They should be 4 ohm but some replacements (including those from DS) are lower. The DS ones I received were only 2 ohm.

That means that the points are switching currents of 6 amps rather than 3 amps so there is bound to be a lot of arcing even with new condensers.

I checked the gap and it didn't change. I check that the points were insulated and all looks good there.

I'm not much for checking things with a meter, I do have a couple but I have no clue how to use it properly except check for 12v and if a wire is broken.

Everything is from 4into1.

It does seem to run better with the new stuff, so far!

Thanks guys!

[Deltarider]

What new stuff?

[Greencb350f]

What new stuff?

Like my first post said... points, condenser, coils, spark plug wires & boots. All parts from 4into1.

[Deltarider]

Again, near idle an occasional flickering is not abnormal.

[Trevor from Warragul]

What is a hondaman ignition?

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,67543.0.html

[gtmdriver]

As I said above if your new coils are not the correct resistance the points will be carrying more current than they should.

You need to measure them to be sure.

If your meter has a resistance scale then it's easy enough.

Set the meter to Resistance on the lowest scale (0-20 or 0-200 ohms).

Disconnect the two wires from the coil and connect the meter probes to the ends of the wires leading to the coil.

You should get a reading of around 4 ohms.

Anything less than this and your points will be carrying excess current and will arc and burn too quickly.

[Deltarider]

+1

[Greencb350f]

As I said above if your new coils are not the correct resistance the points will be carrying more current than they should.

You need to measure them to be sure.

If your meter has a resistance scale then it's easy enough.

Set the meter to Resistance on the lowest scale (0-20 or 0-200 ohms).

Disconnect the two wires from the coil and connect the meter probes to the ends of the wires leading to the coil.

You should get a reading of around 4 ohms.

Anything less than this and your points will be carrying excess current and will arc and burn too quickly.

Ok that sounds easy enough,  I'll give it a try this weekend hopefully. Stay tuned!

Thanks
Chris

[Greencb350f]

As I said above if your new coils are not the correct resistance the points will be carrying more current than they should.

You need to measure them to be sure.

If your meter has a resistance scale then it's easy enough.

Set the meter to Resistance on the lowest scale (0-20 or 0-200 ohms).

Disconnect the two wires from the coil and connect the meter probes to the ends of the wires leading to the coil.

You should get a reading of around 4 ohms.

Anything less than this and your points will be carrying excess current and will arc and burn too quickly.

Ok I finally got off my duff and checked it. Since the bike has started acting up. It started missing pretty bad. Popped the points cover off and the one point that was arcing on me is now arcing on the contacts now. So I got dad up with the meter. Both my new coils are reading  5 ohms (the old original ones are reading 4ohms) so I put a old used condenser in and its not arcing or missing now.

I did however notice my points wires are pinched in the side clutch case. I put the bike one its side and loosened the clutch cover and got the wires out. I see one wire is squeezed but don't look like the insulation is ripped off. Anyway that's probably why it's been dripping oil out of the clutch cover duhh. So I don't know if my new condenser was bad from the start or not. Maybe I'll stop at the Honda shop and see how much a real honda condenser is.

Thanks
Chris

[Greencb350f]

 Well I went to the Honda shop and got new condenser however on the way I noticed when you get into the power band above 7,000rpm it is acting like a rev-limiter. I got home put the new condensers in and cleaned and set the points and its still doing it. I even replaced the smashed coil to points wires with one from a parts bike. Sometimes it will get into the power band but not long after it will act like a rev-limiter. Any ideas on that?  How do you know if its ignition or carbs?

Thanks
Chris Fretz

[tlbranth]

It's not the points that are arcing, or it doesn't look like it to me. It looks like the spring is arcing to ground. Not sure what would cause that though.

[Deltarider]

It's not the points that are arcing, or it doesn't look like it to me. It looks like the spring is arcing to ground. Not sure what would cause that though.

The connectors too close to the plate (=GND) or a missing or misaligned fiber isolation ring (there's a minuscule one in the middle of the hole in the contactbreaker) can cause that.