Topic: Lithium battery charging system

[Gtavo93]

My charging system is using a 8 cell anti gravity lithium battery, Ricks regulator/rectifier combo. Led everything with Motogadget V2 blue. Found last night my charging system was not working. Came back today and i believe a bad connection at the battery voltage reference (Black wire) To the regulator. At 3k Rpms my battery is at 13.4 volts  which seems ok. When i measured the AC volts across the 3 phase cables, I'm only reading 4 ac volts. Is this due to the Lithium battery? Just being paranoid dont want to get stranded. What are the lithium battery guys reading across 3 phase wires AC voltage? By the way resistance measurements for my fiedl coil are ok, also no continuity from 3 phase wires to ground, all seems ok.

[Yamahawk]

Well, I don't think it is due to the lithium battery, as it is fully charged, and when the regulator sees 13.4vdc, it will cut the output to the black wire to the field coil. The better way to check alternator output would be to disconnect the black reference voltage wire, and then check the output of the yellow wires. Remember, this is an electromagnetic alternator, not a permanent magnet system, which would put out full AC voltage when it is running. On permanent magnet systems, you should measure from 30-70VAC on the yellow wires. On our system, full VAC will only be measured when the field coil is fed with a full 12vdc from the battery. Your system might actually be functioning ok, you may not be aware of why it isn't putting out full VAC. You might need to feed the black wire with 12vdc,or leave it disconnected... can't remember  lol. I am sure someone will give you the correct procedure.
Charlie

[TwoTired]

The SOHC4 stator output strength is controlled by the strength of the magnetic field power within the alternator (field coil).  The voltage regulator controls the field strength based on what level of charge the battery is in.
Just about anytime the battery is below 12.6V the vreg fully powers the field and the stator makes full output relative to the RPM of the rotor.
If the battery state  gets to 13.8V the Vreg tells the alternator to back off by reducing the field strength and thereby the stator output voltage.  If the v reg detects 14.5V for the battery system, it shuts off the field entirely, and the stator can produce no voltage.  Thusly, the stator output is variable based on the control from the vreg (and rotor RPM).

If you are measuring the stator output while the battery is at 13.4V, the vreg should have told the alternator to back off it's output strength from full. 

It would be like if someone measured your arm strength while you are asleep.

Cheers,

[Gtavo93]

Yeah you guys are right, so anything below 13.5 volts roughly would reduce voltage to the field coil, anything below(disconnecting the black cable) should full field my charging system correct?

[TwoTired]

Yeah you guys are right, so anything below 13.5 volts roughly would reduce voltage to the field coil, anything below(disconnecting the black cable) should full field my charging system correct?

Depends on your regulator design, which isn't the stock one, right?  You have design particulars for the regulator you installed?

It could be variable control in relation to battery voltage status.  The stock one uses "steps".

But I will say that if you disconnect the black wire, there is no chance of the field coil getting any power (so, no stator output).  That black connection is both a sense line and a power feed/pass through to the field varied by the regulator onto the white wire.

Cheers,

[Gtavo93]

I'm running a Ricks reg/rec combo not exactly sure how it manages the fiel coil voltage. But at rest my battery is roughly 12.5 volts, and at around 2-3k rpms battery voltage rises to 13.4. I guess I'm okay. The other option would be to jump battery voltage to the white field wire?

[TwoTired]

I'm running a Ricks reg/rec combo not exactly sure how it manages the fiel coil voltage. But at rest my battery is roughly 12.5 volts, and at around 2-3k rpms battery voltage rises to 13.4. I guess I'm okay. The other option would be to jump battery voltage to the white field wire?

Jumping the black to the white WILL force the alternator to make max power at whatever RPM it is spinning.  However, applying power into the output driver of the vreg might damage the Electronic regulator.  I would disconnect the regulator wires for the test you propose.

Cheers,

[scottly]

13.4V is too low; it should be at least 13.9, and no higher than 14.4V. Do you have the new Rick's reg/rec suitable for lithium?

[calj737]

13.4V is too low; it should be at least 13.9, and no higher than 14.4V. Do you have the new Rick's reg/rec suitable for lithium?

13.4v at 3k is pretty consistent for a 550. What model of bike is it, exactly? The 750 produces better voltage at lower RPMs, perhaps the 650 too?

[rupaulpierce]

scottly, fancy seeing you here

[PeWe]

Honda stock charging system with a std battery is suddenly very uncomplicated.....

Just clean all connectors and do the regulator service described in the Honda manual. CB750 shop manual ch.8. I'm sure the other sohcers have it described in corresponding manual too.

[nuwonder]

Hmm this is new info for me, a new reg/rec for lithium batteries. I've used Rick's original reg/rec with lithium batteries (Shorai 14Ah) for years on 500's and haven't had any problems. How can it affect the battery, gives too much charge?

13.4V is too low; it should be at least 13.9, and no higher than 14.4V. Do you have the new Rick's reg/rec suitable for lithium?

[scottly]

Yes, the original Rick's regulator allowed the voltage to reach nearly 15 volts, IIRC. Lithium Ion batteries seem to be less tolerant than Lithium Iron (Shorai), as there have been some melt-downs reported. Have you checked your maximum charging voltage? Shorai literature states 13.9-14.4V as ideal for longest life.