Author Topic: CB500 Clutch adjustment/movement issues (Read 3693 times)

Scramps · « **on:** June 24, 2018, 03:26:34 PM »

I’m sharing this from my project shop thread to see if anyone may be able to help over here:

Basically what I’m dealing with is that the clutch lever/lifter arm/whatever doesn’t seem to be moving inward enough to push the rod across and actuate the clutch. I have verified the presence of the ball bearing inside the lever, and the rod doesn’t appear to be broken. I may just have something misaligned or not adjusted correctly. Any help would be greatly appreciated

Quote from: Scramps on June 23, 2018, 07:09:01 PM

Okay, so, pulled all my components out that are supposed to move the clutch. From what I can tell, I’ve got all the things, but I am absolutely not an expert. Does anyone see anything amiss? Any help would be very much appreciated

hudstr · « **Reply #1 on:** June 24, 2018, 06:06:48 PM »

Is that the resting position of the actuator in picture number 4? Or were you pulling on the clutch cable? If that is how it normally sits, then your spring might be shot because I remember having trouble getting my spring hooked back up.

Did you loosen the 10mm bolt on the outside to adjust the position of the housing thingy for the actuator? When its all hooked up you should be able to turn it clockwise freely until you feel resistance.

Also you can buy a new bronze ring with the seal for the last picture. I don't know if it matters that much but I do know you can buy them.

Scramps · « **Reply #2 on:** June 24, 2018, 06:27:43 PM »

That was resting position, yes. I greased all those parts back up and put everything back together. I can rotate the adjustment thing through a pretty broad range, but it doesn’t seem to make much of a difference. I’ve also fully adjusted out the cable on both ends, all I’m getting is spring resistance.

I did some reading on here (the search function works again, which is super helpful) and the only thing I can come up with is that my cable is no good. It’s a brand new cable, but i got it from 4into1, and I don’t know if it’s genuine Honda. Also, I’ve got low handlebars, so maybe I need a shortened cable?

Idk

hudstr · « **Reply #3 on:** June 24, 2018, 07:03:56 PM »

I don't know much about swapping cable lengths but here is a picture of a 72 500.

Scramps · « **Reply #4 on:** June 24, 2018, 07:43:26 PM »

I’ve gone back through my receipts, and it was a genuine Honda clutch cable that I bought, so I should be able to rule that out as a potential culprit

dave500 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 25, 2018, 12:23:00 AM »

is the alloy female thread part with the slot you adjust very worn?sometimes itll let the male thread move sideways some before it moves in the direction it should laterally.

Scramps · « **Reply #6 on:** June 25, 2018, 06:01:55 AM »

That’s a distinct possibility. It’s currently moving laterally about 3/8”-1/2” when swept, does that sound right?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Scramps · « **Reply #7 on:** July 01, 2018, 08:07:31 PM »

To follow up here; I believe my problem is twofold. Stuck plates in the clutch basket and possible missing hardware for the springs. I will report back when I know more, because I know how annoying it is to search for a problem on a forum only to have the thread peter out without resolution

Scramps · « **Reply #8 on:** July 04, 2018, 07:27:56 PM »

Yeah neither of those things seemed to really remedy anything.

Going by the original parts manual, there are Extra washers on each spring, which makes no sense. I’ve tried multiple configurations, but nothing yet has allowed the clutch to move, other than taking out plates. There’s clearly something incorrect going on here, and I don’t have enough patience to try to figure it out in this heat

jaytee-nz · « **Reply #9 on:** July 04, 2018, 08:28:26 PM »

Owners sometimes add extra washers to the springs which has the effect of stiffening the springs and therefore providing more pressure on the plates to fix clutch slip issues.
This shouldn't cause your problems though but it might make the clutch feel stiffer through the lever.
Have you gone through the service manual (page 42) and set everything up as per the instructions ? If not, back everything off and start from the beginning again.
Also have you measured the length of your push rod as they can wear and therefore shorten the distance they will push the "mushroom" on to the lifter plate.
In the service manual it states that you should measure the free play of the clutch assembly (once everything is assembled) and if it is more than .1mm you need to add a shim.
I also notice that you have the clutch plates in backwards - see page 42 again.
I can't remember the length of the push rod but I recall a recent post where someone asked that question so a quick search should find it.
Hope that helps.

Scramps · « **Reply #10 on:** July 09, 2018, 04:59:13 AM »

That recent post about the push rod length was from my build thread, heh. I’ve redone the installation using the original manual as reference, and the conclusion that I’ve arrived at is that my springs have sprung. They’re about 3.5mm shorter than new ones

jaytee-nz · « **Reply #11 on:** July 09, 2018, 01:00:25 PM »

Yep, that would do it ! Also explains the extra washers.
Glad you found the issue.

Scramps · « **Reply #12 on:** July 11, 2018, 05:20:22 AM »

Oh yeah no, that didn’t fix the problem.

I’m convinced at this point that the push rod is squished or broken or something. The only thing I’ve been able to find about the dimensions is that it’s 8mm in diameter and 257mm (10.1”) which means there’s about 1/2” missing from mine

Scramps · « **Reply #13 on:** July 11, 2018, 05:23:18 PM »

I have purchased a steel rod of appropriate diameter, and I intend to fab up a rod of appropriate length when I get home

Scramps · « **Reply #14 on:** July 11, 2018, 07:49:53 PM »

The rod was the problem the whole time.
I’ve gotta make some minor alterations for fitment, but it works now, so problem solved

Scramps · « **Reply #15 on:** July 12, 2018, 05:51:45 AM »

The one on the left is the original, the right is the one I made. I guess the PO replaced it with one from a different bike? Idk. Im just glad that the damn thing works

calj737 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 12, 2018, 11:37:38 AM »

That one on the left does not look to be stock for the 500. At least not stock compared to my '73. Mine has a different tapered nose, and a seal groove on the left side. I think you're right that it belonged to a different bike.

Scramps · « **Reply #17 on:** July 12, 2018, 12:34:50 PM »

It is very similar, and has caused me a lot of grief recently. I’m so relieved to have finally gotten this problem solved, it was really harshing my chill you guys, like you wouldn’t believe

HondaYo · « **Reply #18 on:** July 22, 2018, 02:44:21 PM »

Make sure that U harden the ends of that rod otherwise it will shave down and leave nice shavings to be stuck in not so nice places. I tried the cheapskate rod and ended up rebuilding the motor. The original rod is made out of three pieces. Alu in the middle and hardened steel in the ends. I understand that's because the block and the rod are to expand equally with the engineblock to keep your clutchsetting consistent. My rod is made out of 100% hardened steel...

and I can recognize a difference in adjustment as the engine gets warmer..

Scramps · « **Reply #19 on:** July 22, 2018, 02:59:53 PM »

So hardening the ends will suffice?

HondaYo · « **Reply #20 on:** July 23, 2018, 01:49:36 AM »

Mine filed down on the ends aswell as were the rod contacts the steel shroud behind the oilseal. Iwould harden the whole thing to be sure. Keeps it from bending/ flexing to. Good luck!

Scramps · « **Reply #21 on:** August 21, 2018, 09:20:26 AM »

Late follow up question, where can I find a reliable source of high carbon steel? All the regular hardware outlets that I’ve checked with only offer low-carbon cold and hot rolled stuff. I’m not crazy about the eBay listings that I’ve found, since most of them are either questionable cheap Chinese listings, or the same stuff in US warehouses with badly misspelled listings.

I’m thinking I can use this zinc-plated rod temporarily, but knowing what I do now, I’m loathe to risk it.

Little_Phil · « **Reply #22 on:** August 22, 2018, 12:42:20 AM »

Search "silver steel", that's what I use. I'm no metallurgist, but it's supposed to be 1.2%. Which is well in the range you need I believe.

calj737 · « **Reply #23 on:** August 22, 2018, 03:28:25 AM »

https://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?id=267&step=2&top_cat=1354

Scramps · « **Reply #24 on:** August 22, 2018, 03:44:46 AM »

Awesome, thank you

jaytee-nz · « **Reply #25 on:** August 22, 2018, 01:08:48 PM »

I'm in the final stages of restoring my 1972 CB500 and another Kiwi CB500 owner here in NZ (who literally has a two car garage full of spare parts) sold me a stainless steel version of the clutch push rod. He had these made and uses them in his own bike. I'll find out shortly if they work or not (just ordered a set of original pipes from Wemoto in Australia to finish off my project) but he swears by his.

Scramps · « **Reply #26 on:** August 22, 2018, 04:19:20 PM »

Cool deal, here’s hoping that does the trick

Oddjob · « **Reply #27 on:** November 02, 2023, 11:59:46 AM »

This is a very old thread but I just thought I'd point out the problem that didn't appear to have been solved by the OP.

Just in case it helps anyone in the future.

The problem was that on the worm drive he had fitted the seal which is supposed to be fitted to the outer sleeve where the worm drive runs inside. If you look at his pictures you can see it fitted onto the worm drive BUT also onto the outer sleeve. Having the seal on the worm drive would have meant the worm was positioned too far out for it to have pushed the pushrod in order for it to disengage the clutch. That's why he needed a longer pushrod.

On the subject of pushrods, they should be made of alloy with hardened steel ends just like the Honda one, this is to allow the rod to expand in relation to the clutch, so it still works fine. Silver steel or stainless steel won't do this and you'll end up with the clutch going worse as the engine gets hot, the hotter it gets the worse the problem will be within limits of course.

bryanj · « **Reply #28 on:** November 02, 2023, 12:07:44 PM »

Ken is right, first time i saw this post and yes it appears to have two seals fitted which would stop the worm having enough movement

News:

Author Topic: CB500 Clutch adjustment/movement issues (Read 3693 times)