Topic: Stuck Phillips Bolts

[Chrisboden]

My friend gives me a present last night. A Stainless bolt kit for my bike. I was thrilled until I noticed that the kit consists of one small bag of bolts and a business card.

Now, there aren't NEARLY as many bolts here as are on my bike, or even just the engine. And of course, no instructions as to where in the hell these particular bolts go.


So I start tinkering, it's obvious these are select engine bolts, and it seems to be that they're mainly replacements for all the Phillips Head bolts that plague my engine.

Cool, I go to the store and even get the proper #3 Phillips screwdriver required for doing this.


Then it begins....

I got through most of the side cover bolts with no issue. Some cammed out a little or were simply stuck and WD40 and a few hours of waiting helped a great deal. After an entire day, I got through all the side covers and up to the valve cover.

Nothin.

I'm going through all manner of hell trying to get the valve cover bolts off. I've tried a torch (both directly to the bolt, and on a seperate one to the surrounding area where the bolt sits). I've tried WD40. I've tried a hammer, cursing, and getting my burly neighbor to come lean and swear at it.

Nothin.


HELP!


I'm out of ideas, and I'd really rather not end up screwing this up and having to replace the head or whatnot.



Screwed in Michigan.

Chris B.

[Gordon]

An impact driver is what you need.  Less than $20 and will save you hours of work and stress.  If you don't have a rubber mallet, pick one up, too.  A regular hammer will work, but the rubber one won't slip off the driver and doesn't hurt as much when you miss.

[TwoTired]

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=37530

[Dennis]

Get a dead blow hammer with the impact driver. They are usually plastic or rubber covered and they don't bounce and bite your fingers. I usually use that very same impact driver that Lloyd just pointed out to you with a 1 pound dead blow hammer (also a Harbor Freight special). I also have a larger dead blow hammer if I encounter a particularly troublesome screw, but I think the only time I used it was when I misplaced the one pound hammer.
Saves all kinds of frustration and swearing!!

[Chris Liston]

Impact hammer is a CB owners best friend.

[rob]

Hello,

I have been using this this oil substance called "Liquid Wrench", for siezed fasteners.  I picked it up for a few dollars at a hardware store.  You leave it on bolts for a little bit, up to a few hours and it has worked miracles.  I don't know how it compares to WD-40 though...

This impact driver.. is this device converting the force of the blow into rotational torque?  What do you do if you have already stripped the screw?

Rob

[Dennis]

"Liquid Wrench" and WD-40 are both good products however they are of very limited use in situations such as removing the the engine case screws being discussed here for a number of reasons. Let's just say that if you manage to remove all of the Phillips head screws in a SOHC4 engine using only a screwdriver and a penetrating oil you are extremely lucky.
The point being, go buy an impact driver.
Yes, the hammer blow rotates the fastener. An additional benefit is that it is driving the tool tip into the fastener to reduce the so-called "cam out" effect, which is how you managed to strip your screw heads.   
As far as your fasteners which are already stripped are concerned, there are several possibilities. The easiest is that hopefully there is enough material remaining in the fastener head that the impact driver will still remove them. If that is not possible some people like to slot the screw head with a hacksaw blade or a rotary tool if you have the working space and then use the impact driver with a slotted screwdriver bit to remove them. There are a number of other techniques and tricks mentioned elsewhere on this site. And if all else fails, you can drill the head off the fastener, since you will be buying new ones anyway. Just don't drill into the cases.

[Raul CB750K1]

I keep breaking the points of the impact driver. Furthermore, I managed to snap my hand, not with the mallet, but with the driver itself. It was painful.

I would not bogger with removing the screws NOW. If you ever have to remove them, you can deal with it then. And when it's time to reassembly, substitute the screws for allen head bolts. Why worry now?


Regards

Raul

[chrometank]

A cheap impact driver with a spare packet of better qaulity points are the way to go.they will be out in minutes.

[oldbiker]

I had the same problem when I changed the screws on my bike! With the ones where I had stripped out the slots, I used an ordinary centre punch at an angle off centre and this moved the remaining screws.

[mcpuffett]

hello chris, if you manage to strip the philips head cut a slot with a hacksaw and use an ordinary bit   mick.

[Chrisboden]

Oh thank you guys

I'm off to Sears.....

[Lumbee]

...got my impact driver at sears...craftsman quality, but $24.  Couldn't find it anywhere else in town though.  It was funny, when I ask the old guy at lowes if they had one, he said the didn't make them any more   

[mgilvary]

Having recently done exactly what you're doing -- wrestling off old phillips and replacing with hex -- I can offer this tip on impact driver usage:

On particularly stuck screws, it might seem like you're just whacking away with no result, and it's easy to give up. What I eventually realized is that it does little good to really whale on the thing. What you want to do is strike it hard, straight and solid over and over and over again, until the screw head finally spins (it will only turn a few degrees, so watch closely).

And, FWIW, I had some fairly stripped heads, but the impact driver stayed put in every one. The inward force of the driver is the key to how this priceless gizmo works.

[Chrisboden]

I LOVE YOU ALL!

The Impact Screwdriver is the single greatest invention in hand tools. I love this thing! I found a nice one locally for $30 at the parts place.

I had them ALL out in under 20 minutes after HOURS of wailing on them yesterday.


You guys are my heros, thank you


Duck

[Vatch]

A small set of Vise Grips work well in a pinch.  Plus, a set can easily be carried on the bike for road side bolt/screw removal.

 http://www.irwin.com/irwin/consumer/jhtml/brandProducts.jhtml?brand=Vise-Grip

[Dennis]

Hey Chris,
All you have to do is ask the right question!!  LOL

[Badboy]

I agree,the impact tool is a real good tool to have a round. I have been an auto machanic for almost thirty years and it has saved the day many times for me. But now and then I have had to drill off the head and sometimes put in a heli-coil to boot. Keep in mind that heli-coils are stainless[I think that all aluminum parts should of been made with them in the first place]. That ends problems like stuck bolts. Most of the time!

[cb750_chris]

Now that you have a super duper wonder screw remover don't forget it when you go to the junk yard.  When I find that rare part I've been looking for it usually has stripped screws all around from past attempts at removal.  Whak Whak Whak and its mine.

I just used it to take the bottom end of a bomber appart so I could sell the crank and trani gears.  The pieces will fetch more money for sure because they have not been bugered up.  Sockets work just as nice on the driver as the screw tip. 

Since I am going for original on my bike I have been abble to find and remove all the originals I need for both my engines without a blemish.

Oh yea.  If you are looking for a nice 6 screw clutch basket set up to go on your DOHC twin look at my auctions next week.  I'm 3215chris by the way. 

[dpen]

Did you put the stainless bolts into the alloy covers with an anti-seize compound? Stainless & alloy love each other to the point that the chemical reaction between them renders them inseparable.

[Mark M]

Impact drivers are great if what youi are trying to turn is attached to something big and heavy and solidly mounted. When trying to get old screws/bolts out of partially stripped parts I also find a set of short bolt croppers are good at getting a good hold, much better than pliers, end on so access can be an issue. The screws will need replacing though. 

[Chrisboden]

Bolt Croppers?

Show me, I'm frightfully curious.

[carl550k]

 an impact driver and p b blaster in a can works great

[Vatch]

Yes, show the bolt croppers...

[Buffo]

Dont put those cheep phillips head bolts back in!!!

Take them to a bolt and screw shop and get them all replaced with Allen head type bolts. Put anti-sieze on the new threads and be happy. Just becarefull not to over tighten them as most do.

 I realize that you just bought the impact dirver but you will still need it for other jobs. and if you have to remove the covers in a pinch all you need is one t handled allen driver instead of a hammer, impact driver and a bit set.

Allen bolts look cooler too.

Don

[mongeon]

I don't know much about tools.  An impact driver is essentially a power drill/screwdriver that also pushes down, right?  What do you need the mallet for?

[Flood]

No, we're talking not about a electric/compressed air driven tool. This is something like a fat, massive, screwdriver that you whack with a heavy hammer. This not only makes it turn a little, but also momentarily takes the pulling force from the screw (a screw works by pulling its head toward the thread).

As I'm sure a lot of this is lost in my translation, I'll link a pic:



Cheers, Remi

P.S.: If you don't have an impact driver, it may also help to hit on an ordinary screwdriver for the reason described above.

[Jonesy]

The impact driver looks like a huge screwdriver. When you strike it with a hammer, it us pushed into the fastener and turns it as well. The shock on the head of the fastener also helps to free it up.

You can see one at: http://www.partsnmore.net/item_index.php?part_unique=2667