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Author Topic: How about a temperature gage?  (Read 1833 times)

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Offline American Locomotive

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Re: How about a temperature gage?
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2018, 07:26:27 pm »
You’re saying every older air cooled motor burns oil based on that it gets hotter? I guess that could be true, but couldn’t it be true that they’re just OLDER and that’s why they’re burning oil?

It’s kind of obvious that “high cylinder head temperatures will decrease valve guide and valve seal life, and cause your piston rings to wear faster” but does that mean we need to shut our bikes down at idle every time we ride on a hotter day? I don’t think so, that seems a little ridiculous. I’m with Dave, ride the damn bike. These Honda air cooled motors are crazy reliable.
Air cooled motors are far more susceptible to having oil consumption issues compared to liquid cooled motors, because they run so much hotter. That's why you see many air cooled bikes with 40, 30 or even just 20,000 miles that burn significant amounts of oil. It'd be highly unusual for a liquid cooled bike engine to have oil consumption issues that early on. A GL1000/1100/whatever can be expected to go 150,000+ miles with no noticeable oil consumption and most of its power still intact.

I really don't get the opposition to a simple temperature gauge. It will let you know when your cylinder head temperatures are getting too high, and you make some adjustments if necessary to try and get temperatures back down. Air cooled engines are extremely pone to overheating. They just don't start pushing coolant out a radiator when they do overheat. They just slowly and silently cook themselves to death, wearing the piston rings and valve guides.

I will do everything I can to preserve the health of my bike's motor - even if it means every once in a while I need to pull over and let the engine cool down for a few minutes.

Offline dave500

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Re: How about a temperature gage?
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2018, 10:12:25 pm »
you make em sound fragile locoman,a bit of heat wont hurt em,the clearances are looser to cope with expansion,that explains a little oil consumption aswell,you never see these things melting all over the road.

Offline American Locomotive

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Re: How about a temperature gage?
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2018, 03:08:35 am »
It's not as if one overheat situation kills the motor. It's an accumulation of events that leads to accelerated engine wear, which can be avoided with a simple temperature guage.

Offline dave500

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Re: How about a temperature gage?
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2018, 12:57:03 pm »
if everyone had temp gauges everyone would be sitting road side out of fear!just ride the #$%*ing things.

Offline strynboen

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Re: How about a temperature gage?
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2018, 01:47:39 pm »
put a temp gauge on my aircooled brixx&straton grass cutter??? it have run for 25 years...and vill probly run 25 more,,,damed unrelibel aircooled engines...they rust avay before they vear aut..just like Honda cb...they just need klean oil..not expensive oil..better  thange oil often...and it vill live longer then you....
in the 1970 peapel dont hold the oil thange intevalls..they just run the bikes..so the veared aut engines... the damage  vas done for 25-35 years ago..but often still runs.after 40 years..even they rattel and smoke..fix a engine up so it holds spec...today..and it vill hold..even it are run in hot clima..
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Offline PeWe

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Re: How about a temperature gage?
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2018, 02:03:23 pm »
if everyone had temp gauges everyone would be sitting road side out of fear!just ride the #$%*ing things.
Like this? No, I continued to ride the bike.  The fresh oil withstand more than that ;) Nikasil bores too.
Yes, less +160kph throttling when I noticed needle touching the red  8)
I like when temp is between 100-110C
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Offline scottly

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Re: How about a temperature gage?
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2018, 09:30:43 pm »

Air cooled motors are far more susceptible to having oil consumption issues compared to liquid cooled motors, because they run so much hotter. That's why you see many air cooled bikes with 40, 30 or even just 20,000 miles that burn significant amounts of oil. It'd be highly unusual for a liquid cooled bike engine to have oil consumption issues that early on. A GL1000/1100/whatever can be expected to go 150,000+ miles with no noticeable oil consumption and most of its power still intact.

Tell that to Ofreen. :P ;)
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Offline dave500

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Re: How about a temperature gage?
« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2018, 12:34:36 am »
don't think ive really seen an aircooled bike that burns "a significant amount of oil",ive seen plenty of watercooled diesel trucks that do though,and petrol cars.

Offline strynboen

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Re: How about a temperature gage?
« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2018, 01:49:54 am »
aircooled engines holds up fine..(in the low power/tuned types).

..its the heigh power they have problems..and think they use some ekstra fuel..to cool the valvets and head..and make more noise..like old aircooled vw..
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Offline IVPeters

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Re: How about a temperature gage?
« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2018, 08:00:58 am »
aircooled engines holds up fine..(in the low power/tuned types).

..its the heigh power they have problems..and think they use some ekstra fuel..to cool the valvets and head..and make more noise..like old aircooled vw..

That's a good point, and one of the reasons I put the gauge on my bike - I'm using the CX-1 Web Cam and since I powder coated the entire engine it's more out of curiosity to know what temps the oil is at.
A gauge can also give you clues on what weight oil you might want to run.

Offline American Locomotive

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Re: How about a temperature gage?
« Reply #35 on: July 12, 2018, 05:23:02 pm »
put a temp gauge on my aircooled brixx&straton grass cutter??? it have run for 25 years...and vill probly run 25 more,,,damed unrelibel aircooled engines...they rust avay before they vear aut..just like Honda cb...they just need klean oil..not expensive oil..better  thange oil often...and it vill live longer then you....
in the 1970 peapel dont hold the oil thange intevalls..they just run the bikes..so the veared aut engines... the damage  vas done for 25-35 years ago..but often still runs.after 40 years..even they rattel and smoke..fix a engine up so it holds spec...today..and it vill hold..even it are run in hot clima..
Your Briggs&Stratton also has a fan that's designed to keep the engine cool in any circumstance. The CB750 does not have a fan and relies the bike moving to cool properly.
don't think ive really seen an aircooled bike that burns "a significant amount of oil",ive seen plenty of watercooled diesel trucks that do though,and petrol cars.
I have seen countless air cooled bikes that absolutely chug blue smoke, especially when slowing down (due to fried valve guides/seals). It's even more common on the dual-sport on/off road air cooled bikes.  I see multiple threads every month on this very forum that discuss oil consumption and oil burning issues these bikes tend to get. I see even more threads about bikes with low to mediocre compression (90-100 PSI) - almost certainly from wear caused by sustained high temperature operation.

You keep acting like I'm saying the second your bike even gets slightly warm, you need to pull over. I'm not saying that. What I am saying, is that a cylinder head temperature gauge is a useful tool that provides more information to the rider, so they can make more informed choices during their ride. If they see the temperatures slowly creeping up, they could maybe make a throttle/speed adjustment or a gear change. If the temperatures start skyrocketing during heavy stop/go traffic, maybe one would consider letting the engine cool down a bit.

I don't enjoy my bike smoking, or being down on power or rebuilding engines. If a $50 temperature gauge helps me keep my engine wear to a minimum, even if it means I slow down or pull over one or twice a year on a very hot day, so be it. The health of my engine is far more important than being 1-2 minutes late to my destination.

Online calj737

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Re: How about a temperature gage?
« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2018, 06:37:41 pm »
I see even more threads about bikes with low to mediocre compression (90-100 PSI) - almost certainly from wear caused by sustained high temperature operation.
I see many of those threads also, however, mostly that compression reading is due to 2 primary factors: 1 - a motor that has sat unloved for years and years with now rusted up rings, and, 2 - most people use Automotive type, not motorcycle style compression testers. So I place little to no value in compression readings being anything other than anecdotal information relative to air-cooled maladies.

And outside of a few particular models (like the 750F with notoriously bad valve guides) there does not appear to be a consistent issue with SOHC motors burning up the valve train and oil consumption in my experience.
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Offline American Locomotive

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Re: How about a temperature gage?
« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2018, 08:09:38 pm »
Quote
And outside of a few particular models (like the 750F with notoriously bad valve guides) there does not appear to be a consistent issue with SOHC motors burning up the valve train and oil consumption in my experience.
A quick google search of this forum shows over 1200 results for the term "oil burning".

But regardless, I'm still not sure why you guys are so against the idea of a temperature gauge. Since when is more information about your engine ever a bad thing? Wouldn't you want to protect your engine in case it was ever getting too hot?

Offline PeWe

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Re: How about a temperature gage?
« Reply #38 on: July 12, 2018, 09:34:16 pm »
Some oil burning threads are freshly restored engines with bad luck, oil burning despite new pistons, bores etc. I'm sure that all bike manufacturers did not install oil coolers from late 70's to make bike to look cooler. A CB750 will like it too warm days.

It would be fine if many guys could install an oil tank dipstick as my bike has and we can compare temperatures. 8)
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 02:44:23 am by PeWe »
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Offline 754

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Re: How about a temperature gage?
« Reply #39 on: July 12, 2018, 10:50:30 pm »
I think that would be a start in testing.
 I think a sensor mounted on outside of return line would be handy data as well.
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Offline dave500

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Re: How about a temperature gage?
« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2018, 12:22:45 am »
I cant remember the last time I even saw a pyrometer on a truck?old macks had em.

Offline strynboen

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Re: How about a temperature gage?
« Reply #41 on: July 13, 2018, 04:00:48 am »
most ship engines have a exhost temp gauge.. ;)
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Offline dave500

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Re: How about a temperature gage?
« Reply #42 on: July 13, 2018, 04:23:50 am »
that's pretty handy if ya bikes under water!

Online calj737

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Re: How about a temperature gage?
« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2018, 04:38:35 am »
most ship engines have a exhost temp gauge.. ;)
Relevant with Diesel engines...  ::)
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Online calj737

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Re: How about a temperature gage?
« Reply #44 on: July 13, 2018, 04:40:06 am »
But regardless, I'm still not sure why you guys are so against the idea of a temperature gauge. Since when is more information about your engine ever a bad thing? Wouldn't you want to protect your engine in case it was ever getting too hot?
I don’t think anyone is “against” it per se, just debating some of your assertions.
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Offline dave500

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Re: How about a temperature gage?
« Reply #45 on: July 13, 2018, 04:49:05 am »
jesus #$%*ing wept already,ten billion zillion aircooled bikes aint dead roadside just ride the things as has been done since they were built,why wait for 45 years later and start over thinking it all?like oh #$%*,i better fit a temp guage or its gonmna #$%* up?dont forget to make it android compatible.

Offline American Locomotive

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Re: How about a temperature gage?
« Reply #46 on: July 13, 2018, 06:06:04 am »
I cant remember the last time I even saw a pyrometer on a truck?old macks had em.
Pretty much all modern large diesel trucks have a driver-visible pyrometer gauge. Just about every single modern diesel engine since ~2010 or also have an exhaust gas temperature sensor for use by the engine computer.
jesus #$%*ing wept already,ten billion zillion aircooled bikes aint dead roadside just ride the things as has been done since they were built,why wait for 45 years later and start over thinking it all?like oh #$%*,i better fit a temp guage or its gonmna #$%* up?dont forget to make it android compatible.
Once again, I never claimed once that getting a little hot will instantly kill your bike. That's your own fantastical perversion of my statements. The only thing I've said is that an air cooled engine subjected to running hot over a long period of time will lead to increased wear, increased oil consumption and reduced power. It's not something that happens instantly, but happens over time. As these bikes get older, parts will get harder to find. Eventually the supply of spare parts will dry up, and parts will get expensive. If I can reduce potential instances of extreme wear on my engine to save me in the long term with a simple <$50 temperature gauge, I will.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 06:08:25 am by American Locomotive »

Online calj737

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Re: How about a temperature gage?
« Reply #47 on: July 13, 2018, 07:16:59 am »
The only thing I've said is that an air cooled engine subjected to running hot over a long period of time will lead to increased wear, increased oil consumption and reduced power.
FFS, thats true of water-cooled motors too  ::) I think you are scrambling to make your point factual... Let it go already. Want a temp gauge, use one. Don't want one, don't. Simple as that.
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Offline American Locomotive

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Re: How about a temperature gage?
« Reply #48 on: July 13, 2018, 07:29:53 am »
FFS, thats true of water-cooled motors too ::) I think you are scrambling to make your point factual... Let it go already. Want a temp gauge, use one. Don't want one, don't. Simple as that.
You literally just proved my point with that statement. If an engine runs hot, it gets damaged. Liquid cooled, or air cooled. Liquid cooled engines let you know when they're running hot by boiling over, or by indicating with a gauge. These old air cooled bikes don't let you know when they're running hot, and will happily cook themselves if you let them. Even on this forum people tell you to point a fan at your engine when balancing your carbs or tweaking the pilot fuel settings. Well what's the difference between idling adjusting your carbs, and idling in stop-go traffic for 5-10 minutes where you might only move 10 feet at a time?

400°F cylinder wall temperatures vs 200°F will result in over 10x the wear in a given time period. It rises exponentially after that too, so 450 degree wall temps will be 15-20x the wear rate. The same thing applies to engine oil too. Oil operating at 300°F will break down 4-5x faster than oil at 200°F. My points are completely factual, backed up by decades of engine research.

Offline 754

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Re: How about a temperature gage?
« Reply #49 on: July 13, 2018, 08:50:34 am »
 I disagree with some of that.
 If you owned your four for a few seasons, I think you would be able to tel, if it was overheating..
 I used to kill mine at lights and re kickstart.
 My buddy's 1080 with finless block ran hot, and it let you know..
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My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

 

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