Author Topic: How about a temperature gage? (Read 10918 times)

dave500 · « **Reply #25 on:** July 09, 2018, 10:12:25 PM »

you make em sound fragile locoman,a bit of heat wont hurt em,the clearances are looser to cope with expansion,that explains a little oil consumption aswell,you never see these things melting all over the road.

American Locomotive · « **Reply #26 on:** July 11, 2018, 03:08:35 AM »

It's not as if one overheat situation kills the motor. It's an accumulation of events that leads to accelerated engine wear, which can be avoided with a simple temperature guage.

dave500 · « **Reply #27 on:** July 11, 2018, 12:57:03 PM »

if everyone had temp gauges everyone would be sitting road side out of fear!just ride the #$%*ing things.

strynboen · « **Reply #28 on:** July 11, 2018, 01:47:39 PM »

put a temp gauge on my aircooled brixx&straton grass cutter??? it have run for 25 years...and vill probly run 25 more,,,damed unrelibel aircooled engines...they rust avay before they vear aut..just like Honda cb...they just need klean oil..not expensive oil..better thange oil often...and it vill live longer then you....
in the 1970 peapel dont hold the oil thange intevalls..they just run the bikes..so the veared aut engines... the damage vas done for 25-35 years ago..but often still runs.after 40 years..even they rattel and smoke..fix a engine up so it holds spec...today..and it vill hold..even it are run in hot clima..

PeWe · « **Reply #29 on:** July 11, 2018, 02:03:23 PM »

Quote from: dave500 on July 11, 2018, 12:57:03 PM

if everyone had temp gauges everyone would be sitting road side out of fear!just ride the #$%*ing things.

Like this? No, I continued to ride the bike. The fresh oil withstand more than that

Nikasil bores too.
Yes, less +160kph throttling when I noticed needle touching the red

I like when temp is between 100-110C

scottly · « **Reply #30 on:** July 11, 2018, 09:30:43 PM »

Quote from: American Locomotive on July 09, 2018, 07:26:27 PM

Air cooled motors are far more susceptible to having oil consumption issues compared to liquid cooled motors, because they run so much hotter. That's why you see many air cooled bikes with 40, 30 or even just 20,000 miles that burn significant amounts of oil. It'd be highly unusual for a liquid cooled bike engine to have oil consumption issues that early on. A GL1000/1100/whatever can be expected to go 150,000+ miles with no noticeable oil consumption and most of its power still intact.

Tell that to Ofreen.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,6895.msg1975206.html#new

dave500 · « **Reply #31 on:** July 12, 2018, 12:34:36 AM »

don't think ive really seen an aircooled bike that burns "a significant amount of oil",ive seen plenty of watercooled diesel trucks that do though,and petrol cars.

strynboen · « **Reply #32 on:** July 12, 2018, 01:49:54 AM »

aircooled engines holds up fine..(in the low power/tuned types).

..its the heigh power they have problems..and think they use some ekstra fuel..to cool the valvets and head..and make more noise..like old aircooled vw..

IVPeters · « **Reply #33 on:** July 12, 2018, 08:00:58 AM »

Quote from: strynboen on July 12, 2018, 01:49:54 AM

aircooled engines holds up fine..(in the low power/tuned types).

..its the heigh power they have problems..and think they use some ekstra fuel..to cool the valvets and head..and make more noise..like old aircooled vw..

That's a good point, and one of the reasons I put the gauge on my bike - I'm using the CX-1 Web Cam and since I powder coated the entire engine it's more out of curiosity to know what temps the oil is at.
A gauge can also give you clues on what weight oil you might want to run.

American Locomotive · « **Reply #34 on:** July 12, 2018, 05:23:02 PM »

Quote from: strynboen on July 11, 2018, 01:47:39 PM

put a temp gauge on my aircooled brixx&straton grass cutter??? it have run for 25 years...and vill probly run 25 more,,,damed unrelibel aircooled engines...they rust avay before they vear aut..just like Honda cb...they just need klean oil..not expensive oil..better thange oil often...and it vill live longer then you....
in the 1970 peapel dont hold the oil thange intevalls..they just run the bikes..so the veared aut engines... the damage vas done for 25-35 years ago..but often still runs.after 40 years..even they rattel and smoke..fix a engine up so it holds spec...today..and it vill hold..even it are run in hot clima..

Your Briggs&Stratton also has a fan that's designed to keep the engine cool in any circumstance. The CB750 does not have a fan and relies the bike moving to cool properly.

Quote from: dave500 on July 12, 2018, 12:34:36 AM

don't think ive really seen an aircooled bike that burns "a significant amount of oil",ive seen plenty of watercooled diesel trucks that do though,and petrol cars.

I have seen countless air cooled bikes that absolutely chug blue smoke, especially when slowing down (due to fried valve guides/seals). It's even more common on the dual-sport on/off road air cooled bikes. I see multiple threads every month on this very forum that discuss oil consumption and oil burning issues these bikes tend to get. I see even more threads about bikes with low to mediocre compression (90-100 PSI) - almost certainly from wear caused by sustained high temperature operation.

You keep acting like I'm saying the second your bike even gets slightly warm, you need to pull over. I'm not saying that. What I am saying, is that a cylinder head temperature gauge is a useful tool that provides more information to the rider, so they can make more informed choices during their ride. If they see the temperatures slowly creeping up, they could maybe make a throttle/speed adjustment or a gear change. If the temperatures start skyrocketing during heavy stop/go traffic, maybe one would consider letting the engine cool down a bit.

I don't enjoy my bike smoking, or being down on power or rebuilding engines. If a $50 temperature gauge helps me keep my engine wear to a minimum, even if it means I slow down or pull over one or twice a year on a very hot day, so be it. The health of my engine is far more important than being 1-2 minutes late to my destination.

American Locomotive · « **Reply #35 on:** July 12, 2018, 08:09:38 PM »

Quote

And outside of a few particular models (like the 750F with notoriously bad valve guides) there does not appear to be a consistent issue with SOHC motors burning up the valve train and oil consumption in my experience.

A quick google search of this forum shows over 1200 results for the term "oil burning".

But regardless, I'm still not sure why you guys are so against the idea of a temperature gauge. Since when is more information about your engine ever a bad thing? Wouldn't you want to protect your engine in case it was ever getting too hot?

PeWe · « **Reply #36 on:** July 12, 2018, 09:34:16 PM »

Some oil burning threads are freshly restored engines with bad luck, oil burning despite new pistons, bores etc. I'm sure that all bike manufacturers did not install oil coolers from late 70's to make bike to look cooler. A CB750 will like it too warm days.

It would be fine if many guys could install an oil tank dipstick as my bike has and we can compare temperatures.

754 · « **Reply #37 on:** July 12, 2018, 10:50:30 PM »

I think that would be a start in testing.
I think a sensor mounted on outside of return line would be handy data as well.

dave500 · « **Reply #38 on:** July 13, 2018, 12:22:45 AM »

I cant remember the last time I even saw a pyrometer on a truck?old macks had em.

strynboen · « **Reply #39 on:** July 13, 2018, 04:00:48 AM »

most ship engines have a exhost temp gauge..

dave500 · « **Reply #40 on:** July 13, 2018, 04:23:50 AM »

that's pretty handy if ya bikes under water!

dave500 · « **Reply #41 on:** July 13, 2018, 04:49:05 AM »

jesus #$%*ing wept already,ten billion zillion aircooled bikes aint dead roadside just ride the things as has been done since they were built,why wait for 45 years later and start over thinking it all?like oh #$%*,i better fit a temp guage or its gonmna #$%* up?dont forget to make it android compatible.

American Locomotive · « **Reply #42 on:** July 13, 2018, 06:06:04 AM »

Quote from: dave500 on July 13, 2018, 12:22:45 AM

I cant remember the last time I even saw a pyrometer on a truck?old macks had em.

Pretty much all modern large diesel trucks have a driver-visible pyrometer gauge. Just about every single modern diesel engine since ~2010 or also have an exhaust gas temperature sensor for use by the engine computer.

Quote from: dave500 on July 13, 2018, 04:49:05 AM

jesus #$%*ing wept already,ten billion zillion aircooled bikes aint dead roadside just ride the things as has been done since they were built,why wait for 45 years later and start over thinking it all?like oh #$%*,i better fit a temp guage or its gonmna #$%* up?dont forget to make it android compatible.

Once again, I never claimed once that getting a little hot will instantly kill your bike. That's your own fantastical perversion of my statements. The only thing I've said is that an air cooled engine subjected to running hot over a long period of time will lead to increased wear, increased oil consumption and reduced power. It's not something that happens instantly, but happens over time. As these bikes get older, parts will get harder to find. Eventually the supply of spare parts will dry up, and parts will get expensive. If I can reduce potential instances of extreme wear on my engine to save me in the long term with a simple <$50 temperature gauge, I will.

American Locomotive · « **Reply #43 on:** July 13, 2018, 07:29:53 AM »

Quote from: calj737 on July 13, 2018, 07:16:59 AM

FFS, thats true of water-cooled motors too I think you are scrambling to make your point factual... Let it go already. Want a temp gauge, use one. Don't want one, don't. Simple as that.

You literally just proved my point with that statement. If an engine runs hot, it gets damaged. Liquid cooled, or air cooled. Liquid cooled engines let you know when they're running hot by boiling over, or by indicating with a gauge. These old air cooled bikes don't let you know when they're running hot, and will happily cook themselves if you let them. Even on this forum people tell you to point a fan at your engine when balancing your carbs or tweaking the pilot fuel settings. Well what's the difference between idling adjusting your carbs, and idling in stop-go traffic for 5-10 minutes where you might only move 10 feet at a time?

400°F cylinder wall temperatures vs 200°F will result in over 10x the wear in a given time period. It rises exponentially after that too, so 450 degree wall temps will be 15-20x the wear rate. The same thing applies to engine oil too. Oil operating at 300°F will break down 4-5x faster than oil at 200°F. My points are completely factual, backed up by decades of engine research.

754 · « **Reply #44 on:** July 13, 2018, 08:50:34 AM »

I disagree with some of that.
If you owned your four for a few seasons, I think you would be able to tel, if it was overheating..
I used to kill mine at lights and re kickstart.
My buddy's 1080 with finless block ran hot, and it let you know..

PeWe · « **Reply #45 on:** July 13, 2018, 01:16:14 PM »

The oil tank thermometer work fine.
Example of overheated rods and pistons, especially 2-3
It would have been fine if I should had that installed almost exact 34 years ago when this happened, see photo. Small end bluish
The rods that replaced these looked fine after 3 more long tourings, some days very hot. Had to ride over 160 kph to get fresh air and cool down in north Italy.
I think the melt down and bluish rods were helped by some pinging, ign not correctly set. The pistons had maybe closer to 11:1 than 10:1.

I have later understood that the play of the advancer unit must set F about 3-4 degrees later compared with case mark to avoid advanced timing by 3-4 degrees. This if it is tightened in its clockwise position. Max counterclockwise, T lines up perfectly with case mark when checked with piston stop and degree wheel. I have stamped an alternative mark in case 3mm clockwise from std mark.
This can explain the pinging, ign at least 3 degrees advanced, 2-3 maybe more since I might have forgot to check it last time, only doing 1-4.
It overheated but not due to hot weather.

American Locomotive · « **Reply #46 on:** July 13, 2018, 07:44:38 PM »

Quote from: calj737 on July 13, 2018, 12:10:33 PM

It seems that your posts have been focused on air-cooled motors run hotter than water-cooled and are thus, expected to sustain premature engine wear. There is simply not evidence this is true.
Air-cooled motors are dependent upon air flow, but, a few minutes of time resting in traffic while running won’t destroy them. If that were true, VWs, every Japanese and BMW motorcycle before 1980 would be an oil burning chimney with fewer than 10,000 miles on them. And there’s countless vehicles that completely refute that.

I never said a few minutes in traffic will destroy them. Not once. Once again, that's your own perversion of my statements. I'm saying, in certain situations a passively cooled air cooled engine (like on a motorcycle) can have its temperatures skyrocket, accelerating engine wear significantly and causing some engine harm. Heavy stop/go traffic just inching along will result in very high cylinder, and cylinder head temperatures. Sitting at a stop light for 45 seconds is not the same thing as 10 minutes of stop-go bumper to bumper traffic. Over time, these periods of very high temperatures can lead to low compression and excessive oil consumption. It's not something that happens at the snap of your fingers, it's gradual.

You also can't compare bikes to air cooled automobiles. VWs, Porsches, and every air cooled automobile don't have passively cooled engines. They all have powerful cooling fans designed to keep the engine cool in heavy traffic. Even then, high oil consumption is generally considered "acceptable" among air-cooled VW and Porsche groups.

How about this: I will buy the gauge, I will install it, and I will monitor and take note of temperatures in various scenarios. I will then let you guys know how hot these engines actually get in traffic. That way we can settle it.

P.S. modern BMW air cooled boxer bikes come with temperature gauges

jgger · « **Reply #47 on:** July 13, 2018, 08:06:08 PM »

Quote from: calj737 on July 13, 2018, 12:10:33 PM

Quote from: American Locomotive on July 13, 2018, 07:29:53 AM
You literally just proved my point with that statement.
As I said, scrambling. Your entire assertion from the onset was about air-cooled motors and temperature issues.

Your own words...
Quote from: American Locomotive on July 12, 2018, 05:23:02 PM
I have seen countless air cooled bikes that absolutely chug blue smoke, especially when slowing down (due to fried valve guides/seals). It's even more common on the dual-sport on/off road air cooled bikes. I see multiple threads every month on this very forum that discuss oil consumption and oil burning issues these bikes tend to get. I see even more threads about bikes with low to mediocre compression (90-100 PSI) - almost certainly from wear caused by sustained high temperature operation.
It seems that your posts have been focused on air-cooled motors run hotter than water-cooled and are thus, expected to sustain premature engine wear. There is simply not evidence this is true. Air-cooled motors are dependent upon air flow, but, a few minutes of time resting in traffic while running won’t destroy them. If that were true, VWs, every Japanese and BMW motorcycle before 1980 would be an oil burning chimney with fewer than 10,000 miles on them. And there’s countless vehicles that completely refute that.

Everyone understands the merits of gauges and information relative to engine condition, but there’s no empirical need to install a temp gauge to prevent engine damage in these bikes. Certainly not a good choice for commmuting in California summers, but anyone dumb enough to do that on an air-cooled bike deserves the results.

As DUMB as a lot of things are here in Commiefornia

, air cooled motorcycles are the reason that lane splitting is legal here

. One of the few wins here on the left coast!

Don R · « **Reply #48 on:** July 13, 2018, 09:14:37 PM »

I was on my 76super sport once in a huge traffic jam. The best part was is was all downhill and slow enough I could roll along. I'd say the oil tank or other type of temp. gauge would be helpful to anyone that sees high heat and slow driving. What's so hard about agreeing to that?

TwoTired · « **Reply #49 on:** July 14, 2018, 12:16:27 AM »

Quote from: Don R on July 13, 2018, 09:14:37 PM

What's so hard about agreeing to that?

Well, since you asked...

The oil tank gauge, like an oil pressure gauge down by your feet are horrible places for your eyes to attend while riding about with other drivers intent on shortening your life. And, a gauge you don't look at is pretty superfluous.

If you must put add on gauges to the bike, at least put them in the area of the clocks, for a quick glance reference, while that truck or soccer mom SUV is cutting you off.

IMO.

Cheers,

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Author Topic: How about a temperature gage? (Read 10918 times)