Topic: Engine paint without primer? Or can I mix?

[kixbox]

Hi all -

Hoping for guidance/opinions. 

My engine is ready for paint (clean spotless took me a week of prep). 

Plan A - fail:  I wanted to use the VHT stack (primer SP148 + paint SP127).  It is not accessible in Canada anywhere (due to rule changes a few years ago). 

Plan B: use Duplicolor stack (engine primer 1612 + paint 1615).  No primer either in Canada for be same reason.  But can easily get the enamel.

I can’t find primer or high heat adhesive promoters anywhere (I am a bit surprises). 

Anyway, my question: can I use duplicolor without primer on cb750k engine?  And if in the off chance I was able to find high heat premier (non vht and non duplicolor), can I use it with Dupli’s 1615?

Any input/thoughts or experience to share is most welcome.  Thank so much in advance.







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[danyo]

A lot of guys painted without primer and had no problems. If your surface is scuffed  and properly cleaned it should hold up.

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[kixbox]

Agree and makes sense. 

The engine surface is in good shape and very smooth - that’s the only reason I’m leaning towards priming.  I finally found Rust-oleum brand high head automotive primer.  Think going to use a light coat of that and use duplicolor as the paint layer.  What do you think?

Thanks again.


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[b1jackson]

Make sure to post a completed pic.  I'll be painting my 400F engine soon!

[kixbox]

Make sure to post a completed pic.  I'll be painting my 400F engine soon!

consider it done.


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[kixbox]

Completed stage 1 (i.e. week 1) using duplicolor 1615 (which is highly recommended here on the forum).  Follow instructions to the letter (think coat every 10 mins) for an hour max.  Key decision was no primer but super hyper clean engine.

Next week, I’ll repeat the process (me calling it stage 2) - to help strengthen and cover first timer errors. 

Thanks for all your help folks!!







Those were after. Here are a few before the paint and after through cleaning





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[RAFster122s]

Nice results thus far!




Viewing your work under a strong light will help you see any areas that might need any help with another coat .  edges often are thinned by surface tension pulling the paint from an edge, spraying these areas with light coats dusting on the paint to build this area is only way to get it thicker. Keep this in mind when spraying, closer you get to the surface the more paint is not going to stay at an edge that is not on a flat surface.


Just a FYI for future reference.  To save some tape you can use plastic or plastic bags to mask large areas.  Easy to do and can save you 1/4 roll of tape. Also, storing tape after unwrapped in a plastic baggie can keep the sides of the roll clean to give you a nice edge without fuzzy stuff messing up your paint edge.  It can help it release cleaner.

If you are changing colors sometimes shooting the tape edge after masking with the original color before shooting the new color can help seal the edge of the tape so you have less bleed to no bleed beneath the taped edge..  The plastic 3M painters tape can give you a very crisp edge, unlike the crepe painters tape we all associate with masking tape.

If doing pinstripes laying two stripes side by side, you can buy double or even triple tape to do them both or all at once, will allow you to shoot your color peel one stripe off do the contrasting color and have the base color beneath.

Check out the painting and striping videos on YouTube for good tips and see how pros do it.
Not that you are going to pinstripe your motor.

[kixbox]

Thanks RAF122S - for the helpful tips and tricks, already came in handy as I work through the engine.  I completed the first coat, planning on going back again next weekend.  Any tips on scuffing and how hard should etch the surface? Would a steel wool work?

I’m planing to touch up the frame/swingarm with some black enamel paint.  They were powder coated about 8 years ago and both are still I great shape, just wanted to touch up some area and bring back some depth to the black. 

Side note:  engine covers came back from polishing - best dollar spend hands down. 






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[jakec]

This is so cool. Do you remove oil before removing the engine or do you leave it in always? can you spin the engine around on that stand to paint everywhere?

[kixbox]

This is so cool. Do you remove oil before removing the engine or do you leave it in always? can you spin the engine around on that stand to paint everywhere?

Yes, I removed the oil because I had all the covers polished at a ship local to me and needed to change all the baskets and the seals.  So, drained the engine. 

The stand is very cool rotisserie style 360 degrees (credit goes to the amazing people on the forum).  Search c-hook and engine stands, all well and documented.  Here is one of them that I thought was great:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=58210.0

I had the c hook made as well to help take out the engine - worked beautifully.






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[tiretread]

Looking really good! Could you tell me where you got your items polished? Thanks!

[kixbox]

Looking really good! Could you tell me where you got your items polished? Thanks!

I am in Ontario, Canada - and found a great shop about an hour outside of Toronto (DNR Industries).  Incredibly professional and have a talented team.  Happy to give you be names of my contact and make an introduction. Send me a private message and we can take it from there.


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[kixbox]

Hi all -

A quick update:  engine painting job is now done, covers put back w new OEM gaskets, gaskets went on dry, new cover seals where needed and engine is on standby for the implant. 

No primer used, duplicolor universal alum, did several coats over three weekends, and followed all tips you guys shared.  Worked like a charm.  I still see some flaws where I didn’t do a good job, but overall I’m happy with how it turned out (given done by a newbie). 

Pictures below:








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[tekkie]

looks great

[johnyvilla]

looks good man.

I see you didn't mask off all the case bolt heads, and I don't blame you. Did you leave them be or clean the paint off afterwards?

[kixbox]

looks good man.

I see you didn't mask off all the case bolt heads, and I don't blame you. Did you leave them be or clean the paint off afterwards?

Good point, no I didn’t.  My thinking was simple: if I ever have to turn any one on of them, the engine is very likely is going to be off frame.  At that point, I’d make a decision to clean/repaint or not if needed. 



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[kixbox]

Hi all -

Quick update:

Engine now implanted and bolted, satisfying milestone. 

Thank you ALL for your input and advice!!!!!

Pics to show off











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[MoMo]

Nice work on the motor looking good...Larry

[ekpent]

  That does look very nice,better then new. Glad you didn't paint it black. This is what they eventually end up looking like someday ---   
  My one advice is to make sure your carbs are pre tested for leaking before mounting and making sure your bowl overflow tubes are connected and routed away and down from the engine. Fresh silver paint does not like a gas bath - don't ask me how I know. 

[kixbox]

  That does look very nice,better then new. Glad you didn't paint it black. This is what they eventually end up looking like someday ---   
  My one advice is to make sure your carbs are pre tested for leaking before mounting and making sure your bowl overflow tubes are connected and routed away and down from the engine. Fresh silver paint does not like a gas bath - don't ask me how I know. 

Thanks man. 

Good points, will do.  Thanks for the tip.

Can’t wait to fire it up and cure the paint. 



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[MoMo]

  That does look very nice,better then new. Glad you didn't paint it black. This is what they eventually end up looking like someday ---   
  My one advice is to make sure your carbs are pre tested for leaking before mounting and making sure your bowl overflow tubes are connected and routed away and down from the engine. Fresh silver paint does not like a gas bath - don't ask me how I know. 

one of your creampuffs, Eric?    

[ekpent]

 Ha ha    - Yes Larry that's one of my better ones ! Actually I bought that engine and a bunch of parts years ago from a kid who told me it used to be his Dad's and he damaged the bike and what I got was the  salvageable items. He also swore that 'dad' had a big bore kit and maybe more in the engine and used to race it. I bought it and threw it in a K2 frame of another damaged bike to see if it would start and it did but did not feel that strong going down the road. Recently I pulled the bike back out from long term storage and checked the cylinder with my boroscope that I have now and found flat top pistons that look quite stockish so I think maybe he lied.
  I am pulling that engine out and going to try and sell it and install a proper year running K2 engine I now have into the bike it sits in now. Might be an early winter/late fall project. Picture of the project K2 when I got it years back..

[Xander^]

Hi all -

Quick update:

Engine now implanted and bolted, satisfying milestone. 

Thank you ALL for your input and advice!!!!!

Pics to show off











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GREAT WORK !!! this looks amazing!!

im at a very similar point in my reassembly... i polished my side covers myself but didnt turn out 50% as good lol.. im in canada also, where did you get yours done?
also, i used the dupli colour black enamel for my engine, hopefully it will hold up also.

lastly, a big question i've been wondering to myself and maybe you will know, at this point of the build what should i do/ what are you going to be doing for the winter??
It is already late in the season, i expect my build will only be fully complete by late october. My 2 ideas were A) loaded it up with oil and gasoline and use engine stabilizer and do a winter prep that way, or B) try to get it stored indoors (3-15 degree Celsius)  dry without any oil or gasoline and doing everything fresh in the spring.

thanks

[MoMo]

Ha ha    - Yes Larry that's one of my better ones ! Actually I bought that engine and a bunch of parts years ago from a kid who told me it used to be his Dad's and he damaged the bike and what I got was the  salvageable items. He also swore that 'dad' had a big bore kit and maybe more in the engine and used to race it. I bought it and threw it in a K2 frame of another damaged bike to see if it would start and it did but did not feel that strong going down the road. Recently I pulled the bike back out from long term storage and checked the cylinder with my boroscope that I have now and found flat top pistons that look quite stockish so I think maybe he lied.
  I am pulling that engine out and going to try and sell it and install a proper year running K2 engine I now have into the bike it sits in now. Might be an early winter/late fall project. Picture of the project K2 when I got it years back..

rough but lots of profit potential   assuming you got it on the cheap.  Good luck with it...Larry

[kixbox]

Hi all -

Quick update:

Engine now implanted and bolted, satisfying milestone. 

Thank you ALL for your input and advice!!!!!

Pics to show off











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

GREAT WORK !!! this looks amazing!!

im at a very similar point in my reassembly... i polished my side covers myself but didnt turn out 50% as good lol.. im in canada also, where did you get yours done?
also, i used the dupli colour black enamel for my engine, hopefully it will hold up also.

lastly, a big question i've been wondering to myself and maybe you will know, at this point of the build what should i do/ what are you going to be doing for the winter??
It is already late in the season, i expect my build will only be fully complete by late october. My 2 ideas were A) loaded it up with oil and gasoline and use engine stabilizer and do a winter prep that way, or B) try to get it stored indoors (3-15 degree Celsius)  dry without any oil or gasoline and doing everything fresh in the spring.

thanks

Thanks.

- I did one cover at home it turned out ‘ok’, but wasn’t satisfied.  I ended up using DNR Industries (Kitchener/Waterloo area), and best decision I did.  They are fantastic to deal with, on time and affordable - with the drive from Toronto.  Happy to make an introduction if you want.

- I am not sure what is best, I suspect curing the paint should be better before the freeze.  I am putting things back together in the next 2-3 weeks and hoping to fire it up by end of Sep.  my motivation is to assess engine state and any leaks.  If all is good, will ride for a few weeks and set it aside for the winter. 



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[calj737]

I suspect you'll find those clip-ons rather uncomfortable with stock pegs. Best to use rear sets and clip-ons, or pegs and super bike bars. With your setup, a great deal of reach is created which weights the wrists, while you have an unnatural curvature of your spine due to stock peg location. Think sitting in a dining chair but stretching across the table to eat from someone else's plate.

Bike is looking rather sharp though!

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Best to use rear sets and clip-ons, or pegs and super bike bars.

Agreed -- from experience.

Nice job on the motor.  Did you "cure" the paint using a hot-box?  If not, make sure to protect the paint from fuel drippings until it has experienced a few heat cycles to cure and harden.

[kixbox]

Best to use rear sets and clip-ons, or pegs and super bike bars.

Agreed -- from experience.

Nice job on the motor.  Did you "cure" the paint using a hot-box?  If not, make sure to protect the paint from fuel drippings until it has experienced a few heat cycles to cure and harden.

Thanks gents. 

After sitting down on it a few times, I think I have to the rear sea route.  Any recommendations on which ones/where to buy?

As for engine curing, it did not have a way to heat-box properly (attempted and failed).  I am about a few weeks away from pulling this puppy back together.  I intent to heat cure while on frame (including the exhaust fresh VHT).  So initial start, will be 100% focused on engine oil for leaks, curing paint, and ergonomics. 

So excited for this fresh start on the bike. 

My parents came up for the weekend to hang with the grand children- and my father and I (bonding time) motored thoughtfully through the majority of the assembly (suspension including swingarm, fuel system, electrical halfway).  It was fun showing off my know-how bc is he knows everything

Here is where things are as we speak (pic below) - work left to be done: rear end assembly, front controls, brakes, fluids (fork oil, brake oil, engine oil).  If all goes as planned, after labour day weekend (I’ll shoot a video).




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[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Here are some bolt-on Tarozzi rear-sets from Fast From the Past:  http://www.fastfromthepast.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=CB750F