Author Topic: What do you use for vaccume when adjusting carb gauge tool  (Read 6098 times)

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Offline Dos

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What do you use for vaccume when adjusting carb gauge tool
« on: August 10, 2018, 10:44:55 AM »
I’ve noticed that when I sync my carbs perfectly they still sound poor so I’m thinking my gauges just haven’t been synced themselves.

I don’t have a lot of tools around and I was wondering what I could use to sync my own gauges?

Someone recommended a vacuume port on a car but I do not have a car.

Do you think I could go to a local mechanic and bother them for an air compressor? Not sure if there’s another way to give it constant vacuume .

Thank you!

Offline 70CB750

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Re: What do you use for vaccume when adjusting carb gauge tool
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2018, 10:51:48 AM »
I used a vacuum pump that pumps air into my pond.

Not helping, I know :)

Maybe use a big syringe?  All the needles should move.

Offline strynboen

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Re: What do you use for vaccume when adjusting carb gauge tool
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2018, 12:33:52 PM »
i just adjust the 3 gauges ..to the first...use the same port on the manifold to all ...its  small adjustings..normaly the meters hold fine up..but use for thek it up,, is a good idea
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Offline Dos

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Re: What do you use for vaccume when adjusting carb gauge tool
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2018, 12:41:08 PM »
Presto!

Offline Dos

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Re: What do you use for vaccume when adjusting carb gauge tool
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2018, 10:39:30 AM »
It’s interesting though, when I blow into it and hold the air, the gauges will read differently, however when I put them on the bike they read the same

Offline jgger

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Re: What do you use for vaccume when adjusting carb gauge tool
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2018, 11:14:58 AM »
When you BLOW you are adding POSATIVE PRESSURE to the gauges and they are made to measure vac.  ( negative pressure ).
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Offline slikwilli420

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Re: What do you use for vaccume when adjusting carb gauge tool
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2018, 01:26:54 PM »
Just carefully bench sync and go ride.
All you gotta do is do what you gotta do.

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Offline pjlogue

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Re: What do you use for vaccume when adjusting carb gauge tool
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2018, 02:01:26 PM »
You could go to a pet store and get a air pump manifold with 5 ports.  Hook up your gauges to the manifold and use the 5th port to hook to one of the vacuum ports on your bike.  The manifold might be $10 if it's brass, cheaper if plastic. 

-P.

Offline kmb69

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Re: What do you use for vaccume when adjusting carb gauge tool
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2018, 02:14:40 PM »
Just carefully bench sync and go ride.

Not sure I agree with Matt on this one. No mater how careful, it will only get you close. Hard to duplicate real world actuals on the bench. ;)

My experience has been much smoother engines with synchronized vacuum gauges and even smoother using manometers.  8)

Not only smoother, but acceleration performance is better as well as measured at the drag strip.

Offline slikwilli420

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Re: What do you use for vaccume when adjusting carb gauge tool
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2018, 02:51:56 PM »
Race bike runs like a raped ape with glass smooth idle and acceleration on bench sync only. Sample of one but I'm convinced.
All you gotta do is do what you gotta do.

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Offline awrawr

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Re: What do you use for vaccume when adjusting carb gauge tool
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2018, 03:05:58 PM »
I made my own vacuum guages from 30 feet of clear plastic pipe cut into 4 lengths - one for each cylinder., blocked off at one end and in a 'U' configuration filled with water coloured with food dye.. No calibration necessary other than making sure they were all the same.. Perfect balance achieved.

Offline kmb69

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Re: What do you use for vaccume when adjusting carb gauge tool
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2018, 08:28:03 PM »
Race bike runs like a raped ape with glass smooth idle and acceleration on bench sync only. Sample of one but I'm convinced.

Yeah, but you are a skilled craftsman and pay attention to detail! Most folks can't get it that close without instrumentation. Just saying!

And, you might be surprised if you check them with a manometer?  ;)

I'm constantly amazed by this audience. "I just replaced my rings and did a valve job but it won't it to start."  :o


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Offline Deltarider

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Re: What do you use for vaccume when adjusting carb gauge tool
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2018, 04:00:23 AM »
Just don't use one and the same cylinder (working) to calibrate all gauges simultaneously. It won't work.
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Offline Dos

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Re: What do you use for vaccume when adjusting carb gauge tool
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2018, 08:51:18 AM »
I’m using one cylinder to sync all four gauges, then I am taking each gauge to each individual cylinder. That is correct right?

Offline bryanj

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Re: What do you use for vaccume when adjusting carb gauge tool
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2018, 11:03:46 AM »
I had a set of those gauges and gave up with them as they fluctuated way to much, bit the bullet and bought a set of Sealey ones here in UK, If I can get a UK ebay link I will post it.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LAST-FEW-4-GAUGE-ADVANCED-MOTORCYCLE-CARBURETTOR-BALANCER-TOOL-SET-VACUUM/181607421453?epid=2227228974&hash=item2a48a5560d:g:uUUAAOSwkNZUhwzn

First one I found and don't know if you can get them in the US but they are VERY good and nearest to genuine Honda I have ever seen

« Last Edit: August 12, 2018, 11:07:54 AM by bryanj »
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Offline przjohn

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Re: What do you use for vaccume when adjusting carb gauge tool
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2018, 12:33:32 PM »
Just carefully bench sync and go ride.

I agree. The procedure for synching 2 strokes is get behind the carbs and watch that they all pull off idle at the same time and top out at the same time. When you can’t tell the difference they are synched, works great.
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Offline Dos

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Re: What do you use for vaccume when adjusting carb gauge tool
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2018, 03:50:54 PM »
I got the gauges as synced as I could.

With my bike it is always finicky.
At neutral they don't appear to all be perfectly synced but when I pull down at the throttle to max they all are at the same place, so I believe they are synced.

It's better to have them synced in a full position then at idle because most of the time you are riding and not at idle,
Correct?

Offline TwoTired

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Re: What do you use for vaccume when adjusting carb gauge tool
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2018, 04:49:52 PM »
No. Idle position is most critical for balanced draw through the carbs.  With thslides open, minor position difference result in little difference mixture delivery.

Put your effort in vacuum balance at idle speed for a smooth running engine.

You can't reliably tune these 4 cyl motors by ear.  Certainly not a beginner.

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Offline Dos

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Re: What do you use for vaccume when adjusting carb gauge tool
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2018, 08:40:33 PM »
Okay but when it’s synced at idle and I pull down on the throttle the carbs are unsynced, what gives?

Offline Dos

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Re: What do you use for vaccume when adjusting carb gauge tool
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2018, 06:25:57 AM »
No. Idle position is most critical for balanced draw through the carbs.  With thslides open, minor position difference result in little difference mixture delivery.

Put your effort in vacuum balance at idle speed for a smooth running engine.

You can't reliably tune these 4 cyl motors by ear.  Certainly not a beginner.

Cheers,

I’ll resync to when it’s at neutral but so you’re saying the idle - mid range sync is more important to when it’s fully open?

Offline TwoTired

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Re: What do you use for vaccume when adjusting carb gauge tool
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2018, 10:42:39 AM »
At idle, the slides are nearly closed.  Small differences make some cylinders fire with better or less strength than others, making for erratic idle.  This can often be felt at the head pipes.  A .5mm difference is a large contributor to charge volumes at idle position.  As the slide position that is passing air is only 3mm or less. At WOT, the carb throats slides are near max.  I don't recall the smaller bikes throat diameter.  But, at 22 mm a .5mm difference among slides is a much lower percentage of throttle opening.

The closer you get the cylinders firing evenly at idle, the better, with little impact on WOT and mid range positions.  Assuming the cylinder mechanical are in decent shape across the bank, of course.

If you are saying that a prefect vac balance at idle won't keep balance with the engine revved,  You may have set the dampers on the gauges unevenly, and you have gauge indication lag.  The damping screws create a storage pocket in the tubing.  A damper screw that is more open than others will equalize faster than when the damper screw openings are more closed.  Still, if you hold at a certain RPM and wait, the gauges should read the same equality as at idle position.

I don't set my damper valves for rock steady needle movement.  I let them wiggle a bit, but set them all the same wiggle excursion.  Then I use the center of the wiggle excursion as the setting point and adjust all carb position to show the same behavior.

Cheers,
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Offline Dos

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Re: What do you use for vaccume when adjusting carb gauge tool
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2018, 10:02:12 AM »
Thank you very much yeah I will in dampen. it’s just hard to see the needles when it’s at Idle when it’s not dampened  but I guess I could just go mid throttle

Offline slikwilli420

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Re: What do you use for vaccume when adjusting carb gauge tool
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2018, 10:04:37 AM »
Thank you very much yeah I will in dampen. it’s just hard to see the needles when it’s at Idle when it’s not dampened  but I guess I could just go mid throttle

Don't change the process to suit you, do it the other way around. Sync is for idle. As the slides open, the difference in each opening is incrementally smaller as you approach full throttle. Sync at idle as best you can and go ride.
All you gotta do is do what you gotta do.

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Offline Dos

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Re: What do you use for vaccume when adjusting carb gauge tool
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2018, 10:08:36 AM »
The process in sinking the gauges them selves is sort of confusing.
.I was going to set them all to one cylinder with no dampening and get them all the same with full throttle.  then I would dampen them down to the same numbers after they are all the same at full throttle with no dampening.  that makes sense correct?