Topic: Lots of shifting problems

[roque75]

I’m having some shifting problems.

Already found a topic that explains how to drill the clutch basket and other stuff. However my problem isn’t exactly the same and I don’t want to camouflage it with this method...

So, i fully restored my cb500 four. It have 10w30 oil with the right level.
Everything seams to work great now except the clutch.
All shifts are working but not always easy to shift!

Sometimes is just hard to shift and if I rev, it shifts easier.
Other times it jumps to neutral, even if I’m shifting from 3rd to 4th, however if I try again it’s shift on 4th, not 2nd. So it wasn’t really on neutral, but not sure where it was.

It’s not really that shift problem that I can’t  shift when it is hot. Sometimes it enters at first try, sometimes I need to try 2 or 3 times with revs...
With low revs they are really hard to shift.
When it enters, there is a big change that the pedal stays in the upper position and after a few seconds it drops to normal position by itself...

Another thing that I’m not sure if it’s normal... when stopped i can’t shift all gears. I need to move the bike back and forward.

At last and not so common like the other issues, sometimes it’s hard to get neutral. It jumps from 1st to 2nd or from 2nd to 1st. But with the engine stopped it’s easy.

Sorry for the long post. As I said, I want to know if there is something else going on here. I don’t want to camouflage the issue and damage anything with the time.

Cheers!

[dave500]

when stopped engine off its normal to have to rock the bike to select gears,the shift pedal getting stuck is the drum moving sideways and trapping the mechanism,if its jumping out itll need to come apart to see why,itll have a few worn parts pretty common on 500s to wear the transmission.

[Little_Phil]

Dave, what's the fix for the drum moving problem? What bits need replacing and is there any workaround? Been asking around as my lever occasionally stays up when going 1st to second and will only drop if I let the power off.

[dave500]

gday phill,there aint no real fix short of replacing parts on an ever aging bike?the early 500s had a flimsy ball and spring drum locating gizmo that was updated early on to become a sort of sleeve bush around a bolt,it worked a little better but got changed out fully with the 550 to a ball bearing set up and is real solid,even the drum detent star was changed and solved the drum moving issue,ive had a couple of 500s and they all suffered from this fault,low milage ones or ones not thrashed will probably be ok?ive had a couple of 550s and broke third gear dogs off one(ya gotta ride em)but mostly they shift easier I think?its often the stack up of worn parts equals a #$%*ty transmission?sloppy drum retainment,worn forks and guides,rounded teeth and wobbly on their shafts idler gears?some people have no trouble with 500s but it was a factory fix up and improvement during its run and further improved with the 550s,id looked at shimming the 500 drum from the left side but never tried anything.

[Little_Phil]

Cheers Dave, certainly the clutch lifter and gear selectors were the biggest changes on the 500-550. I regularly use my 550F as well and it's box is as smooth as silk.
I have a spare 500 engine, but it's probably just as bad. At least I know what to look for.

[roque75]

I inspected the transmission and it don’t look worn.
Also when driving it’s not jumping out! Only when shifting...

[TwoTired]

Your stated symptoms read as a dragging clutch.  Does it clunk and jump badly when you go from neutral to first?

Is your W10-30 oil using an additive package from the 70's?  Or, one formulated for today's catalytic converter, roller came modern automotive engines?

Use oil intended for diesel motors or ones formulated to meet motorcycle wet clutch requirements.  The label should have a JASO rating on its label, if you want to be safe and not experimental.

Cheers,

[roque75]

The oil is Honda 4 stroke JASO-MA. So I think it’s a good oil for this engines.

Yes. it clunks a bit when goes from neutral to first. Never thought it was a problem because it enters very easily. But it makes a good clunk...

[TwoTired]

Still sounds like a dragging clutch.  Can you not adjust it for a more positive disengagement?  Really, you want it to just "snick" into gear with no bike jump at all.

What temps are you operating in?  Perhaps a thicker oil would help?
The oil you've chosen is for pretty mild temps.  Good motorcycle oil, though.

Cheers,

[roque75]

Already tried to adjust it in different position and nothing really changed.

I wanted to put a 10w40 oil but an old Honda mechanic told me to use 10w30 instead.
Never thought it will cause this issues but I can try the recommended oil to be sure!

[flatlander]

you're in portugal right? get 20w50.
your oil is too thin. i think honda recommended 10w40 up to 15C ambient temp, this summer is much hotter especially where you live.

and don't go back to that mechanic, he knows nothing of these old bikes. you need to learn to maintain it yourself. that's the charm of a classic.